Noah's Flood & the Strait of Hormuz

Diamond7 said:

He is just playing with you. There is always a grain of truth in what he says.

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Nope...AV is upfront with his beliefs. What you see is straight up AV. And with backed up by scripture, he believes.

dlamberth said:

Nope...AV is upfront with his beliefs. What you see is straight up AV. And with backed up by scripture, he believes.

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You're a gentleman and a scholar!

Diamond7 said:

We all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

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Not me...I've been freed from that kind of trajectory. Just say'n!

Diamond7 said:

I do not have any problem with what you say. I have told you that many times. It is what you do not say.

They were going by the information they had and what they had to work with. I have no problem with Bishop Ussher and his book. Although it is more reference than something you an actually read. He does a wonderful job of talking about the last 6,000 years.

According to chatbot: "As an artificial intelligence language model, I don't hold beliefs or opinions on matters such as the occurrence of a global flood. It is not within my programming to take sides or express personal views on any topic. My role is to provide information and answer questions to the best of my ability based on the available data and knowledge."

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Do you actually talk to this thing and engage in conversation?

If so, can I get one?

AV1611VET said:

Dangerous too.

Getting your theology from a Chatbox is like ... well ...

Would you want your surgeon to get his information from a Chatbox, before he is about to remove your appendix?

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For once, we agree!

Aussie Pete said:

The canyon was likely cut by the massive floodwaters as they drained into the sea. The flood reshaped the ocean floor so that the water cut through like a knife through butter. A great deal of research has been done on this and the arguments are compelling. In reality, no one was there to see it so it is impossible to prove beyond any doubt.

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Uh, no, the Grand Canyon was not cut through soft mud after the flood. The walls would not have stayed vertical.

And no, it was not cut through solid rock after the flood. A mass of water draining from a continent would have spread out through many paths, and not cut one big canyon through solid rock.

Diamond7 said:

I use to design and sell sprinkler systems. Everything was based on water pressure. We would loan people a water pressure gauge to go home and check their water pressure. It was usually 50 or 60 psi. But I could do nothing until I knew what that water pressure was. It takes a LOT of water pressure to carve out the grand canyon. A little bit of pressure and a lot of time are just not the same. Because of the law of diminishing returns.

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Sorry, canyons are cut be moving water, not by water pressure in a pipe.

Aussie Pete said:

Thanks, just one more bit of evidence that the geologist time line is incorrect.

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Perhaps you didn't get the memo? Even flood geologists have long given up that these layers were caused in a global flood. See https://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood geology.pdf , for instance.

Diamond7 said:

If you do not need salvation, then I rejoice and I am glad for you. For me, science can only do so much. I need more than what man and the world have to offer. I see the horrendous things people are having to endure and I thank God that He is there to rescue, save, heal, and deliver us out of harms way.

In a broader sense, "salvation" can refer to any kind of deliverance or rescue from harm, danger, or suffering. In this sense, "salvation" can indeed mean healing, as healing can be a form of deliverance from physical, emotional, or spiritual suffering.

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Science opens a window into how God Creates new life forms. As such, in the world I live in, we are all an activity of God. And when we see that in others (as well as in ourselves) it has a way of changing our perspective of life around us. As a result, in seeing the Divine in them, we treat others with the Love, Compassion, Empathy and with Service that they deserve. For myself, that is the saving grace of God.

I have an interest in geology and your argument that the collapse of the Strait of Hormuz which resulted in the flooding if what is now the Persian Gulf was new to me and I felt worth exploring. I worked with the assumption that would have occurred at the end of the last Ice Age as the ice melted and ocean levels rose. According to an Abstract that I'll link below, about 14,000 years ago the strait "opened up as a narrow waterway". It took another 1.5K years for "marine incursion" to enter the Persian Gulf. Nowhere does any of those time lines fit into the supposed time line of Noah's Flood. I'm able to welcome the ideas of a local flood that became mythologized by the imagination of ancient pre-Jewish middle-Eastern people and was later incorporated into later Jewish beliefs. For instance the "Epic of Gilgamesh" flood story. But when looking at when the filling of the Persian Gulf began and how long it took, I don't believe that thousand year event could be considered a "flood" in any sense related to Biblical implications.

Shoreline reconstructions for the Persian Gulf since the last glacial maximum​

doubtingmerle said:

Sorry, canyons are cut be moving water, not by water pressure in a pipe.

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Just a little correction, it's the sand and gravel grinding away at the sides of a canyon wall that does the actual work of abrasion. Running water provides the transport of the sand and gravel.

AV1611VET said:

Do you actually talk to this thing and engage in conversation?

If so, can I get one?

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That strikes me as pretty funny as I imagine what a chatbot would say about embedded maturity (dare I say fake maturity?) and wormholes and such.

dlamberth said:

That strikes me as pretty funny as I imagine what a chatbot would say about embedded maturity (dare I say fake maturity?) and wormholes and such.

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Well if it patterns itself after some here, I can imagine what it'll say:

"I'm putting you on IGNORE."

AV1611VET said:

Do you actually talk to this thing and engage in conversation?

If so, can I get one?

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Yes, you can get free access to a chatbox engine at ChatGPT: Optimizing Language Models for Dialogue , for instance .

Once you are set up, you just type an English request, and it generates a response using information from the Internet.

For instance, when I told it to "Write a poem about how great AV1611vet's posts are," I get this.

What do you think? Pretty smart, huh?

But when I ask it to, "Argue that God cleaned up the debris after a global flood," it writes.

And again, it is amazing that the chatbox created this. But I suppose you aren't very happy with how its programmers taught it to respond to questions like this, huh?

Chatboxes can do quick web searches and generate arguments you never thought of. Some of it is good, but some of it is ridiculous. They can't help it. They don't understand. They are made of dumb computer code that tries to string together a response.

However, if people think they can impress others by copying and pasting arguments from a chatbox, they can end up copying tons of bogus arguments they don't even understand. And that can lead to people arguing about things they don't understand and quickly lead conversations way off track.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

The law of diminishing returns only deals with economics, not geology. Neither of you know a thing you're talking about.

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"A principle stating that profits or benefits gained from something will represent a proportionally smaller gain as more money or energy is invested in it."

It can be applied to other things apart from economics. The real point is that the relatively low flow and pressure of a stream across a basically flat surface is not going to carve out the Grand Canyon. Which, as you no doubt know, was at one time sea bed. Mount Everest and the Alps, as well as the Australian outback were also under the sea at one time. I wonder when.

I've been to the Grand Canyon. It is astounding. One of the things that geology does not explain is the sediment layers. If they were deposited over billions of years, there should be evidence, such as forests, shrubbery or plant life between the layers. There is none. You can see the same effect if you part fill a glass tank with water and put enough dirt in it to fill it about half dirt, half water. Stir it up so that the dirt is suspended. It will very soon settle into layers, taking hours, not millions of years. The Mount St Helen's eruption produced the same effect from the vast amounts of material released. It settled into layers, not in millions of years, but in a few decades. The material settled into Spirit Lake.

If you have an open mind, this link will explain what happened.

doubtingmerle said:

Perhaps you didn't get the memo? Even flood geologists have long given up that these layers were caused in a global flood. See https://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Flood geology.pdf , for instance.

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Maybe flood geologists don't know about Mt St Helens: