(Orthodox) Russian soldiers engage in systematic rape to prevent women from having babies in future

ArmyMatt

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I'm wondering how accurate our intel is, though? In an era of propaganda where the United States has ceased to be an honest player and has lowered herself to become more akin to a third world country, I no longer trust much of what we're being told. We were told the COVID vaccine was amazing, so I got my shot and booster. Thank goodness my family was ok, but it's coming out that it wasn't as safe as we were told. Plus the benefits were not the glorious stuff we were told. We're being told 24/7 about the beauties of LGBTism when my wife, as a doctor, sees how they truly live their lives, and it's not only disgusting and soul-destroying, it's health ramifications are terrifying. We are told that Asian hate is all around us and it's white supremacy and Donald Trump driving it, but then we see most of the Asian assaults are from minorities, not white folks? We hear "stats" on gun violence that actually point more toward handguns being the major cause of death, not "assault" rifles, yet the media tells us it's the AR-15 that we must all ban ASAP. Biden is going around blathering on about how Republicans want to eliminate Social Security when they've said nothing remotely like that. You hear the Ukrainians claiming they've killed 200,000 Russians and they've only lost like 15,000. Then they dish out some other stat. We see states re-electing Democrats when only 20% or so of the entire state are registered Democrats. We have elections where more voters voted than we have registered supposedly propelled a geriatric catatonic Marxist to the presidency. "Statistics" and "facts" in 2023 give me pause. Can I trust that the Russians are being decimated? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

The biggest problem with modernity is TRUST. People are losing a sense of trust in Western governance and systems and reporting. We need to get that back, but I'm not sure we can....
well, if Russia was keeping the same commanders, you’d be on the nose. but the fact that they keep changing the ones running the campaign shows they are not competent at all.

but I totally agree with your point about trust.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Reverence goes both ways. You revere a Jewish atheist who shuttered canonical Orthodox parishes accusing clergy of spying. You revere a country that is knocking down Catherine the Great statues and statues of Pushkin in favor of a gay inappropriate content star, Billy Herrington along with other secular scum whom the West admires with glee. LGBT activism is on fire in Ukraine and Zelensky has openly spoken about eventual gay "marriage" kicking in, and for now he said he's hoping for civil partnerships. Gay pride parades have been growing in Ukraine. So, you support a gay rights president, a cancel culture president, and someone openly hostile to canonical Orthodoxy. But hey, that's ok. We all have the right to our opinion. Forget the fact that you believe the Monroe Doctrine only applies to your country, but not to other super powers, but that's ok, too. You have that right.

Were you as passionately upset about Kosovo being stolen from the Serbs as you are the Crimea (which was illegally "given" to Ukraine by Khrushchev, that Russia annexed after an election? Were you as upset about NATO bombing Serbia to death as you are mean Putin bombing Ukraine?

You are in good company right now---Biden, Harris, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, the ghost of Warmonger McCain, gay rights groups, the EU, NATO, and the military-industrial complex. Considering such great folks you're surrounding yourself with opinion-wise, what could go wrong!? And since we're all being told to back Ukraine, hey, why not, right? It's not like the media could ever be biased or have an agenda! And, as a smart guy, I know you also know that secular modernists are ALWAYS synced up with Holy Orthodoxy!!!

I am not as sure as you are that I am responsible for all the evils of the Western world but I do understand that you are filled with disoriented rage from the fallout out from the collapse of Putin as a demi-god.

As discussed from the beginning, this is not just about the destruction of Ukraine, but eventually people will come to see that Putin is an enemy of Russia as well. A classic lose-lose scenario.

There are exiled Russians fighting with the Ukrainians, and as they say to the Russians: "Your enemies are in the Kremlin, not in Ukraine."
c’mon guys, no need for the cheap shots.
 
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archer75

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Yeah, it’s a liberal echo chamber. We need TAW modern and TAW classic. This place has changed….
Liberal echo chamber..?
Reverence goes both ways. You revere a Jewish atheist who shuttered canonical Orthodox parishes accusing clergy of spying. You revere a country that is knocking down Catherine the Great statues and statues of Pushkin in favor of a gay inappropriate content star, Billy Herrington along with other secular scum whom the West admires with glee. LGBT activism is on fire in Ukraine and Zelensky has openly spoken about eventual gay "marriage" kicking in, and for now he said he's hoping for civil partnerships. Gay pride parades have been growing in Ukraine. So, you support a gay rights president, a cancel culture president, and someone openly hostile to canonical Orthodoxy. But hey, that's ok. We all have the right to our opinion. Forget the fact that you believe the Monroe Doctrine only applies to your country, but not to other super powers, but that's ok, too. You have that right.

Were you as passionately upset about Kosovo being stolen from the Serbs as you are the Crimea (which was illegally "given" to Ukraine by Khrushchev, that Russia annexed after an election? Were you as upset about NATO bombing Serbia to death as you are mean Putin bombing Ukraine?

You are in good company right now---Biden, Harris, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, the ghost of Warmonger McCain, gay rights groups, the EU, NATO, and the military-industrial complex. Considering such great folks you're surrounding yourself with opinion-wise, what could go wrong!? And since we're all being told to back Ukraine, hey, why not, right? It's not like the media could ever be biased or have an agenda! And, as a smart guy, I know you also know that secular modernists are ALWAYS synced up with Holy Orthodoxy!!!
I understand this wasn't a reply to me directly, but since you seem to put "us" all in one basket, I will reply just for the record.

I don't revere Zelensky. I remember when he was elected and my wife and I were watching his old (not that old) comedy troupe bits on YouTube. However, his presidency has come to symbolize the resistance that people show in defense of their children and elderly. Without Putin's attempt to destroy Ukraine, Zelensky would probably have been a one-term president known to very few outside his home country. So if you are displeased with the fact that some people now have positive associations with Zelensky, you can reasonably blame Putin.

All the Ukrainian people I know are pretty conservative socially, without giving it any particular thought. The "west" of Ukraine, imagined to by some kind of LGBT hotbed of smut, is filled with people who have never even heard of or considered any of the nonsense that you (rightly) believe to be nonsense. However, Putin has succeeded in creating a strong association between resistance to that nonsense (sexual sin and the arguments associated with it) and his version of "conservatism" (murdering Orthodox Christians, bombing MP parishes, killing helpless civilians on purpose, trying to execute an entire country, poisoning the citizens of his own country, etc. etc. So rest assured that, if Ukraine survives, at least some people will be more open to the promotion of sexual sin that they were, because Putin has pushed the false line that the only choices are his "murder Christians" policy and LGBT stuff. For this, you can thank Putin and his enablers.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. There are certainly public figures who are "backing" Ukraine because, for various reasons, it is popular to do so in certain circles (just as it is unpopular in other circles). Yet, right is right and wrong is wrong.

Sometimes, it can be hard to evaluate whether a given action is right or wrong. But sometimes it's not so hard:

Is bombing Orthodox parishes, with the specific and stated intent of destroying and "punishing" the civilian population right or wrong? It's wrong.

Is executing bound civilians who could pose no threat to anyone right or wrong? It's wrong.

Is making war on little children and their parents (many of whom are now widowed mothers whose husbands have been killed defending their families from Putin's maruauders) by depriving them of electricity and food during the winter, sending false bomb threats to the Telegram chats for parents of kindergarteners so they can have an even more panicked day, right or wrong? It's wrong.

Is enslaving an an entire jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church and getting the hierarchs to, in effect, worship you as a god, while also paying honor to famous murderers of the Orthodox, such as Feliks Dzerzhinsky, right or wrong? It's wrong.

I understand your desire to believe that there is a Putinite "holdout" against a bunch of stuff which you rightly believe to be wrong. I also hoped for some time that there might be some truth to this notion. There is no truth to it.

There are many holdouts in the US. There are many holdouts in many countries.

Putin is not such a holdout. He is not conservative. He is, to all appearances, an aggressive, Bolshevik-style atheist. He is the poster child for disordered passions. Litvinenko was murdered for trying to make public evidence that Putin was protecting himself from being found out as a certain kind of extremely twisted pervert. In service of this (likely) and other (materially obvious) evil passions, his enablers have managed, over a quarter-century, to cook up a kind of modern Stalinism. This time, they hijacked the "rebirth" of the ROC that seemed so promising in the 1990s so that "dissidents" would not have even the Church to run to, as they did in the 20th century. This project has succeeded for the moment. In the end, it will fail.

Hundreds of thousands are already dead. Countless children orphaned. Millions displaced. Who knows how many young children kidnapped from their families and stolen off to Russia to be Russianized. Countless weeping widows, families poisoned or destroyed for generations. Families with Russian citizenship, Ukrainian citizenship. Putin could end it all today. But he will not because in serving disordered passions, with more resources at his disposal than most monarchs had throughout human history, he has backed himself into a corner from which he believes there is no escape.

If you really think the "West" is so evil and Putin is such a nice, sweet Barry Goldwater, you might consider moving there and asking about a path to citizenship. The language can be learned, and lots of people do speak English. It sounds like I'm saying this with sarcasm (okay, the bit about Putin being Goldwater was sarcastic), but I mean it. If you're right, you'll be with at least some likeminded people and you'll have lots of ROC parishes to choose from.

The sex-centered "wokeness" of today means letting disordered passions speak with your voice, with worshipping those passions and their expression as god. Putin is more woke than any of these repellent figures in the West. The mob boss for whom you have such respect is more anti-Christian than any ethnically Jewish atheist.

I am sorry to tell you this, but I must. Sympathizing with Putin and swallowing his incoherent lies and claims to be serving Orthodoxy, you are in danger of falling ever deeper into a serious spiritual illness. Like those suffering from classical spiritual delusion (prelest), you believe that you are pursuing Christ when you are dancing to the tunes of spirits that are not of Christ. I would say the same to someone pushing trans-naming ceremonies or whatever in place of Holy Baptism. If that person was sincere, he would be sincerely deluded.

"Learn the truth about what Putin, and his tragic and lamentable spiritual cohort Patriarch Kyrill, are doing to Ukraine. It is a shameful atrocity of epic proportions!" -- Patrick Barnes, founder of the Orthodox Christian Information Center, from which I got a ton of good information years ago--hardly an insane, atheistic, ecumenist pit of promotion of sexual anarchy. Mr. Barnes says it clearly.

I started this message in sinful anger, but not even particularly against you. I am sorry for any needless offense I may have caused, inappropriate sarcasm, or any over-verbosity. I will try to end this portion of this message with a prayer for a spirit of repentance for myself.

May the Lord remember you in His kingdom, guerney!

O God, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance. Visit Thy world with mercy and compassion. Exalt the estate of Orthodox Christians, and send down upon us Thy rich mercies, through the prayers of our all-pure Lady, the Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary; by the power of the precious and life-creating Cross; through the protection of the honorable bodiless powers of heaven; through the supplications of the honorable prophet, forerunner, and Baptist, John; of the holy, glorious, and all-laudable apostles, of the Twelve and of the Seventy; of the holy martyrs, passion-bearers, and confessors the First-Martyr Stephen, Philip of Moscow, Tikhon of Moscow, and all the New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia and Ukraine; the unmercenary physicians Zenaida, Philonella, and Luke the Blessed Surgeon; of the fools for Christ Isaac the recluse of Kyiv, Nicholas of Novgorod, and Xenia of Petersburg; of the holy and righteous ancestors of God Joachim and Anna, and of all the saints, hear us sinners who pray unto Thee and have mercy on us. Through the mercy, compassion, and love for mankind of Thine only-begotten Son, with whom Thou art blessed, together with Thy most holy, good, and life-giving Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages.
 
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Nick1000

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If you really think the "West" is so evil and Putin is such a nice, sweet Barry Goldwater, you might consider moving there and asking about a path to citizenship. The language can be learned, and lots of people do speak English. It sounds like I'm saying this with sarcasm (okay, the bit about Putin being Goldwater was sarcastic), but I mean it. If you're right, you'll be with at least some likeminded people and you'll have lots of ROC parishes to choose from.

Citizenship will also get one a trip to Ukraine- even with dual citizenship.

Amazing how quickly some views change when the mobilization men knock on the door.
 
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Dorothea

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I'm wondering how accurate our intel is, though? In an era of propaganda where the United States has ceased to be an honest player and has lowered herself to become more akin to a third world country, I no longer trust much of what we're being told. We were told the COVID vaccine was amazing, so I got my shot and booster. Thank goodness my family was ok, but it's coming out that it wasn't as safe as we were told. Plus the benefits were not the glorious stuff we were told. We're being told 24/7 about the beauties of LGBTism when my wife, as a doctor, sees how they truly live their lives, and it's not only disgusting and soul-destroying, it's health ramifications are terrifying. We are told that Asian hate is all around us and it's white supremacy and Donald Trump driving it, but then we see most of the Asian assaults are from minorities, not white folks? We hear "stats" on gun violence that actually point more toward handguns being the major cause of death, not "assault" rifles, yet the media tells us it's the AR-15 that we must all ban ASAP. Biden is going around blathering on about how Republicans want to eliminate Social Security when they've said nothing remotely like that. You hear the Ukrainians claiming they've killed 200,000 Russians and they've only lost like 15,000. Then they dish out some other stat. We see states re-electing Democrats when only 20% or so of the entire state are registered Democrats. We have elections where more voters voted than we have registered supposedly propelled a geriatric catatonic Marxist to the presidency. "Statistics" and "facts" in 2023 give me pause. Can I trust that the Russians are being decimated? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

The biggest problem with modernity is TRUST. People are losing a sense of trust in Western governance and systems and reporting. We need to get that back, but I'm not sure we can....
Yep. I feel the same way about it all, Scott. I don’t trust any statistics our govt tells us. Especially from our intel and or MIC (military industrial complex). They only care about power and money. As it’s been said several times by a few in our govt as well as in the EU that the Ukrainians will fight for the West until the last Ukrainian, which is absolutely cruel and horrible. But when one is sucked in and in bondage to their passions of power and money, I guess all the insane stuff they’ve said isn’t surprising.

New Israeli Mossad (I’ve heard they have a track record of more accuracy than other intels. Still don’t trust them completely) has a new report out on the deaths and injuries from both sides of this war, and the Urkrainians have lost a whole lot more of their soldiers than the Russians have. And Ukraine’s army is minuscule compared to Russia’s. All the lies told and the deceptive pact the West made with Russia via the Minsk agreement tells you they were egging Russia on from the start and we’re waiting for Putin/Russia to attack. And the blood thirsty neoconservatives and neoliberals don’t care about how many innocent people die in this unnecessary war. They only care about weapons sales and war profits. It’s sad. I’ve been praying this all ends a long time ago. All these wasted deaths. So much loss. We definitely have unwell people running our countries in the West.
 
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Justin-H.S.

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@Dorothea and @gurneyhalleck1 , did you know about this movie? When they sent us to Iraq in 2003, I knew there was something off about it, but mine was not to reason why, but it was to do or die.

 
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I am not as sure as you are that I am responsible for all the evils of the Western world but I do understand that you are filled with disoriented rage from the fallout out from the collapse of Putin as a demi-god.

As discussed from the beginning, this is not just about the destruction of Ukraine, but eventually people will come to see that Putin is an enemy of Russia as well. A classic lose-lose scenario.

There are exiled Russians fighting with the Ukrainians, and as they say to the Russians: "Your enemies are in the Kremlin, not in Ukraine."
Disoriented rage? It’s amazing how you can discern my interior disposition over the internet! And if you look at the hysterical anti-Putin idolatry going on in this forum, I would say the globohomo Zelensky lovers are far more passionate! Putin is the proverbial piñata in here burned in effigy! If anyone has internet anti-Putin toad rage, I’d say it’s been on display here.
 
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Platina

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Reverence goes both ways. You revere a Jewish atheist who shuttered canonical Orthodox parishes accusing clergy of spying. You revere a country that is knocking down Catherine the Great statues and statues of Pushkin in favor of a gay inappropriate content star, Billy Herrington along with other secular scum whom the West admires with glee.
We have to be more careful and more precise in what we say. Just because you're against the war doesn't mean you revere Zelensky or the UOC being persecuted. Both my boss and my wife have accused me of being a Zelensky fanboy because I'm against the war. TBH, I was shocked at the silliness of it.



I am not as sure as you are that I am responsible for all the evils of the Western world but I do understand that you are filled with disoriented rage from the fallout out from the collapse of Putin as a demi-god.

You also have to be a lot more careful. I see some of you saying stuff like this and I just roll my eyes. Are you trying to actually get a point across, or just lob insults?
 
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Nick1000

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Disoriented rage? It’s amazing how you can discern my interior disposition over the internet! And if you look at the hysterical anti-Putin idolatry going on in this forum, I would say the globohomo Zelensky lovers are far more passionate! Putin is the proverbial piñata in here burned in effigy! If anyone has internet anti-Putin toad rage, I’d say it’s been on display here.
There is a lot of talk about NATO, NATO, NATO, and the "the West" and Cuba 1962 by the Putin apologists. And everyone picking on poor Vlad. Putin always the victim. Why is everyone picking on me and treating me like a pinata even though I just smashed Ukraine like a pinata and have notified several other countries that they could get smashed too?

Meanwhile there is the so-called CSTO, the Russian-dominated Collective Security Treaty Organization. Russia/Central Asia's version of their "NATO." It includes Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakkhstan, Kyrgystan, and Tajikistan and maybe some others. But NONE of them agreed to or have sent troops to support Putin in Ukraine even though he has leaned on them daily for a year to do so. And with the exception of Belarus, none have said they support the special military war. Belarus/Lukashenko says they support it but Vlad still can't get him to send troops. The others will not touch the war with a ten foot pole. And NONE of them (unless Belarus changed recently) will recognize the "independence" of the Donbass/Kherson area that Putin seized. Some won't do it because maybe it is not the right thing to do but most of them won't do it because they fear that Putin is on the move to seize them too. Kazakstan/sp has been building up its military because they fear Russia, not because they fear NATO.

So my question is: Are those people and countries all "globohomo Zelensky lovers" too? These are Putin's closest allies This is his own home-grown version of "NATO" yet their biggest fear is Putin and his plans to encroach upon them. And even where there is no fear they simply do not want to be drawn into the Ukraine mess just because Putin stepped in the doo-doo and made the dumbest move possible.

In reality, Putin has support from neither his "enemies" nor "friends" in regard to this current trainwreck. Even if one were 1000 per cent pro-Russian and bought into all the "Russian World" hoopla that does not mean that Putin is the great savior of Russian society. He has gutted much of it and is rapidly turning Russia into a colony of Bejing, and how much do you think Bejing is committed to the long term preservation of all things Russian?

What a mess. If you don't care about Ukraine, at least care about Russia. Putin is not your friend long term.
 
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ArmyMatt

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We have to be more careful and more precise in what we say. Just because you're against the war doesn't mean you revere Zelensky or the UOC being persecuted. Both my boss and my wife have accused me of being a Zelensky fanboy because I'm against the war. TBH, I was shocked at the silliness of it.
yep. in the Army, being Orthodox let’s me show there is way more nuance to the conflict than Russia = bad/good, Ukraine = good/bad.
 
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There is a lot of talk about NATO, NATO, NATO, and the "the West" and Cuba 1962 by the Putin apologists. And everyone picking on poor Vlad. Putin always the victim. Why is everyone picking on me and treating me like a pinata even though I just smashed Ukraine like a pinata and have notified several other countries that they could get smashed too?

Meanwhile there is the so-called CSTO, the Russian-dominated Collective Security Treaty Organization. Russia/Central Asia's version of their "NATO." It includes Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakkhstan, Kyrgystan, and Tajikistan and maybe some others. But NONE of them agreed to or have sent troops to support Putin in Ukraine even though he has leaned on them daily for a year to do so. And with the exception of Belarus, none have said they support the special military war. Belarus/Lukashenko says they support it but Vlad still can't get him to send troops. The others will not touch the war with a ten foot pole. And NONE of them (unless Belarus changed recently) will recognize the "independence" of the Donbass/Kherson area that Putin seized. Some won't do it because maybe it is not the right thing to do but most of them won't do it because they fear that Putin is on the move to seize them too. Kazakstan/sp has been building up its military because they fear Russia, not because they fear NATO.

So my question is: Are those people and countries all "globohomo Zelensky lovers" too? These are Putin's closest allies This is his own home-grown version of "NATO" yet their biggest fear is Putin and his plans to encroach upon them. And even where there is no fear they simply do not want to be drawn into the Ukraine mess just because Putin stepped in the doo-doo and made the dumbest move possible.

In reality, Putin has support from neither his "enemies" nor "friends" in regard to this current trainwreck. Even if one were 1000 per cent pro-Russian and bought into all the "Russian World" hoopla that does not mean that Putin is the great savior of Russian society. He has gutted much of it and is rapidly turning Russia into a colony of Bejing, and how much do you think Bejing is committed to the long term preservation of all things Russian?

What a mess. If you don't care about Ukraine, at least care about Russia. Putin is not your friend long term.
Where you and I can agree is yes, this is a bloody mess both in the British terminology sense and literally! I am not glad Putin invaded Ukraine. And I’m sure you’re aware of that. No one wins in the end. NATO stirred the pot and the West interfering in Ukrainian politics egging on an overthrow of Yanukovich and poking their CIA noses in we’re early signs of a hope that a great reckoning could come.

I’m not of the idea that Putin is a saint or a savior, but I find plenty of reasons why you and I should be given pause to

a) assume the news media is telling us the truth

b) assume Purim is as villainous as portrayed

c) not see the hypocrisy of our own invasions and guilt for crimes that make us completely incapable of judging Russia.

Back when we illegally invaded Iraq under false pretenses, did the world, including Russia, put sanctions on us or ban our athletes or boo our people and deny them flights or freeze their assets? No! Quite the opposite! Or Afghanistan? Actually after 911, Russia provided us with intelligence to hunt down terrorists.

When NATO carpet bombed Libya and triggered Arab Spring uprisings, did the world freeze our assets and declare NATO a villainous organization?

Why was it ok for Albanians to seize Kosovo and steal land, but South Ossetia or Crimea is anathema. The Ecumenical Patriarch creates a fake church, nobody blinks. Zelensky bans opposition parties and shuts down churches, nobody blinks. Old footage of Zelensky playing a piano with his penis or talking about murdering Russians, nobody blinks. Democrats work with Fusion GPS and Twitter and Google, all good. But Putin controlling the media, unthinkable.

Can you see my points? For just a minute, back off the mass murder blood on his hands butcher killer loathing of Putin and ask if you and I can sit and judge this? Can we? What is the only nation to actually nuke someone? Hint—-it’s not Russia! Which country enslaved a mass population of Africans as hard labor while taking the bulk of its land from indigenous folks? How many invasions and wars have we had solely because the dictator wanted to end the petrodollar?

Is Putin Mother Theresa or Albert Schweitzer? Nah. But compared to our illustrious glorious leader, he doesn’t support puberty-blockers, sawing off teenage girls’ breasts, and race-war-baiting BLM style groups. His every waking hour isn’t spent on how to increase abortion levels. Does Russia support Israel continuing to bulldoze Palestinian homes?

Russia is at least a Christian nation that still doesn’t support LGBT, polyamorous nonsense, pedophilia, atheism, trannies, euthanasia, kneeling before black folks and paying reparations to folks two centuries removed practically, and they have good relations with Islamic nations overall. They at least have a border policy in place and some sense of tradition. They’re not the orcs and Klingons folks like yourself portray. NATO pushed this, and now plays the role of the shocked victim. Nonsense.
 
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Nick1000

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Where you and I can agree is yes, this is a bloody mess both in the British terminology sense and literally! I am not glad Putin invaded Ukraine. And I’m sure you’re aware of that. No one wins in the end. NATO stirred the pot and the West interfering in Ukrainian politics egging on an overthrow of Yanukovich and poking their CIA noses in we’re early signs of a hope that a great reckoning could come.

I’m not of the idea that Putin is a saint or a savior, but I find plenty of reasons why you and I should be given pause to

a) assume the news media is telling us the truth

b) assume Purim is as villainous as portrayed

c) not see the hypocrisy of our own invasions and guilt for crimes that make us completely incapable of judging Russia.

Back when we illegally invaded Iraq under false pretenses, did the world, including Russia, put sanctions on us or ban our athletes or boo our people and deny them flights or freeze their assets? No! Quite the opposite! Or Afghanistan? Actually after 911, Russia provided us with intelligence to hunt down terrorists.

When NATO carpet bombed Libya and triggered Arab Spring uprisings, did the world freeze our assets and declare NATO a villainous organization?

Why was it ok for Albanians to seize Kosovo and steal land, but South Ossetia or Crimea is anathema. The Ecumenical Patriarch creates a fake church, nobody blinks. Zelensky bans opposition parties and shuts down churches, nobody blinks. Old footage of Zelensky playing a piano with his penis or talking about murdering Russians, nobody blinks. Democrats work with Fusion GPS and Twitter and Google, all good. But Putin controlling the media, unthinkable.

Can you see my points? For just a minute, back off the mass murder blood on his hands butcher killer loathing of Putin and ask if you and I can sit and judge this? Can we? What is the only nation to actually nuke someone? Hint—-it’s not Russia! Which country enslaved a mass population of Africans as hard labor while taking the bulk of its land from indigenous folks? How many invasions and wars have we had solely because the dictator wanted to end the petrodollar?

Is Putin Mother Theresa or Albert Schweitzer? Nah. But compared to our illustrious glorious leader, he doesn’t support puberty-blockers, sawing off teenage girls’ breasts, and race-war-baiting BLM style groups. His every waking hour isn’t spent on how to increase abortion levels. Does Russia support Israel continuing to bulldoze Palestinian homes?

Russia is at least a Christian nation that still doesn’t support LGBT, polyamorous nonsense, pedophilia, atheism, trannies, euthanasia, kneeling before black folks and paying reparations to folks two centuries removed practically, and they have good relations with Islamic nations overall. They at least have a border policy in place and some sense of tradition. They’re not the orcs and Klingons folks like yourself portray. NATO pushed this, and now plays the role of the shocked victim. Nonsense.
As always, the premise of your position and apology for Putin is that he is a victim of NATO.

I reject that premise totally. Putin has always wanted Ukraine and has consistently said that it is not separate country. That is the official Putin party line. In reality he invaded Georgia and took a piece of it in 2006, and then he invaded Ukraine and took Crimea in 2014. It's what he does. He believes his personal destiny and assignment on this earth is to put the Russian republics back together again to the extent that he can so that he will go down in history as Peter the Great.

And yes, Putin is threatened by having a pro-Western country/Ukraine on his border. But making Putin angry is not a violation of international law and Ukraine is a sovereign state even if the Putin playbook says otherwise. The list of countries that Putin has in his crosshairs is quite long and one reason is as good as another. And as I said in an earlier post, some of those countries are his current allies and they fear Putin, not NATO.

The reality is that Putin saw Biden being elected and he saw how clueless he was with the Afghanistan withdrawal and saw his chance to move on Ukraine so he tried his luck. The way the pattern works is that Putin saw kumbaya Obama in office so moved on Crimea which went fine. No western opposition whatsoever. Then Trump came in, and Putin knew better. Not a good time to try your luck. Then Biden so it's looking good again. It had absolutely ZERO to do with Nato. EU membership attempts by Ukraine were a factor but Ukraine is a sovereign country as I said.

Putin wants Ukraine- period. His message to them over the years has consistently been "Marry me or I will kill you and your children and your elderly parents." And now he is hard at it. He will go until he is stopped or humiliated to the point that the hardliners back home take him out.

I also reject the premise of your other argument, that Putin is justified in undertaking extensive genocide and total destruction of a people of a country because the west has drag queens and LGQTXYZ and BLM and all of that. Those are all reprehensible things and they are a scorge on the west but that does not give Putin an Attila the Hun get out of jail free card to conduct hs brutality and devastation.

He also owes Ukraine at least a trillion in reparations to rebuild so he should start savings his pennies.

As I said, he will go until he is stopped or brought to grinding standstill. He is a menace to Russia, Ukraine, and the world. And he will always be the victim and someone else is responsible for his own actions. Has always been that way, and always will.

Anyway, Vlad has made his move. He does not listen to me and it is not my job to pretty it up for him and find excuses for him. Others can do that. If he is a genius and thinks he is the great strategist then go for it. Meanwhile they are building bomb shelters in Moscow. I hope your guy knows what he is doing. So far his track record is not all that good and I don't want to end out in a nuclear war over drag queens, which will probably be the reasoning for it.


Russia’s Secretly Splurging on Bomb Shelters ‘Everywhere,’ Report Says​

 
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As always, the premise of your position and apology for Putin is that he is a victim of NATO.

I reject that premise totally. Putin has always wanted Ukraine and has consistently said that it is not separate country. That is the official Putin party line. In reality he invaded Georgia and took a piece of it in 2006, and then he invaded Ukraine and took Crimea in 2014. It's what he does. He believes his personal destiny and assignment on this earth is to put the Russian republics back together again to the extent that he can so that he will go down in history as Peter the Great.

And yes, Putin is threatened by having a pro-Western country/Ukraine on his border. But making Putin angry is not a violation of international law and Ukraine is a sovereign state even if the Putin playbook says otherwise. The list of countries that Putin has in his crosshairs is quite long and one reason is as good as another. And as I said in an earlier post, some of those countries are his current allies and they fear Putin, not NATO.

The reality is that Putin saw Biden being elected and he saw how clueless he was with the Afghanistan withdrawal and saw his chance to move on Ukraine so he tried his luck. The way the pattern works is that Putin saw kumbaya Obama in office so moved on Crimea which went fine. No western opposition whatsoever. Then Trump came in, and Putin knew better. Not a good time to try your luck. Then Biden so it's looking good again. It had absolutely ZERO to do with Nato. EU membership attempts by Ukraine were a factor but Ukraine is a sovereign country as I said.

Putin wants Ukraine- period. His message to them over the years has consistently been "Marry me or I will kill you and your children and your elderly parents." And now he is hard at it. He will go until he is stopped or humiliated to the point that the hardliners back home take him out.

I also reject the premise of your other argument, that Putin is justified in undertaking extensive genocide and total destruction of a people of a country because the west has drag queens and LGQTXYZ and BLM and all of that. Those are all reprehensible things and they are a scorge on the west but that does not give Putin an Attila the Hun get out of jail free card to conduct hs brutality and devastation.

He also owes Ukraine at least a trillion in reparations to rebuild so he should start savings his pennies.

As I said, he will go until he is stopped or brought to grinding standstill. He is a menace to Russia, Ukraine, and the world. And he will always be the victim and someone else is responsible for his own actions. Has always been that way, and always will.
It’s noteworthy that you refuse to answer my points about Western hypocrisy. You just won’t do it. When a country tries to go off the petro dollar, we go full “Atilla the Hun.” It’s what WE do! Iraq….twice…,Libya….Syria….Arab Spring….Afghanistan….If it’s not petro dollar, it’s oil or PNAC portfolios or Halliburton or some other government contract $$$$.

You refuse to acknowledge that you, Nick, and I, are in no place to judge Putin on a high horse soap box.

You get pretty squeemish. I can only imagine how you would’ve reacted to guys like Constantine the Great! War has never been pretty, and we’re pretty good at “collateral damage” ourselves.
 
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It’s noteworthy that you refuse to answer my points about Western hypocrisy. You just won’t do it. When a country tries to go off the petro dollar, we go full “Atilla the Hun.” It’s what WE do! Iraq….twice…,Libya….Syria….Arab Spring….Afghanistan….If it’s not petro dollar, it’s oil or PNAC portfolios or Halliburton or some other government contract $$$$.

You refuse to acknowledge that you, Nick, and I, are in no place to judge Putin on a high horse soap box.

You get pretty squeemish. I can only imagine how you would’ve reacted to guys like Constantine the Great! War has never been pretty, and we’re pretty good at “collateral damage” ourselves.
It is not about judgment in the Orthodox sense or getting onto a soap box. It is about allowing yourself to see what is happening.

Sin does not cease to be sin, neither does governmental promotion of sin cease to be sin, because someone said "war is war." Especially when the sin is the point of the war. So if the US invaded Canada then drag queen story hour would be ok? Come on.

I get the impression from your posts, guerney, that your views of the US are largely formed from what you see online. Yeah, I'm with you: the usual insanity is insane and evil, and it makes me crazy. But if you ignore the online world for a bit, you will see plenty of libraries without drag queen story hour, plenty of churches that don't bless LGBT whatever, plenty of people who (Christian or not, Orthodox or not) don't accept any of that and are vocal about it. You make it sound like every house but yours is flying a rainbow flag and that's just far from reality. Yeah, there's a serious societal illness about promoting certain sins. But that doesn't mean that attempting to execute 40+ million people isn't Nazi-style genocide.
 
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You get pretty squeemish. I can only imagine how you would’ve reacted to guys like Constantine the Great!

I guess I will never be a tough guy like the Russians. It takes a real man to do what they are doing.

In return I can only imagine how quickly your views would change if you were mobilized in Russia. It is easy to cheer on some ethnic kid from Siberia or the Caucuses to save you from drag queens. It is another to do it yourself or burying one of your own children returning in a body bag.

Meanwhile you and other Putin apologists promote the official script which is a two-step argument. Step One is to make it crystal clear that you are against the war. Then Step Two is to then list the twenty reasons why Putin is doing a great job and service to the world by conducting this special genocidal operation.

As we have seen from previous fascists, Putin follows a "cleansing" argument and his apologists line right up to parrot it. Putin is going a great job because he is cleansing Ukraine of Nazis, or cleansing them from Satan or cleansing them from Drag Queens or cleansing them from BLM. Russian State TV even thinks drowning Ukrainian children is the way to go. Yup, Putin going to cleanse Ukraine. And he is taking the Donbass because he is sooooo concerned about the human rights situation there. Vladimir Putin- the protector of human rights.

Everything going on right now is about Putin and his legacy. It is not about Russia. It is not about Nato. It is not about drag queens. It is about a tin horn dictator trying to leave this world as the next Peter the Great all while becoming Ivan the Terrible more and more each day. The world, especially Russia and Ukraine lose if he succeeds, and they lose even more if he fails, because that type of fragile despot will take his whole country down with him if he fails. He has a good start on that already. It is never good when some of the most decent and skilled people in a country, had./ have to flee and live in another country. Unlike you, I am not willing to see Russia turn into a Boreal North Korea just to get rid of some of the evils of western society. Who are Russia's friends now? Oh. Iran and North Korea. Great. Or not. Who are Putin's closest buddies? Oh the Wagner nut, and the Jihadi Kadyrov. Great. Or not. And who are the two greatest threats to Putin now? That's right. His two aforementioned buddies.

What a mess.


"A corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." Matthew 7.
 
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It is not about judgment in the Orthodox sense or getting onto a soap box. It is about allowing yourself to see what is happening.

Sin does not cease to be sin, neither does governmental promotion of sin cease to be sin, because someone said "war is war." Especially when the sin is the point of the war. So if the US invaded Canada then drag queen story hour would be ok? Come on.

I get the impression from your posts, guerney, that your views of the US are largely formed from what you see online. Yeah, I'm with you: the usual insanity is insane and evil, and it makes me crazy. But if you ignore the online world for a bit, you will see plenty of libraries without drag queen story hour, plenty of churches that don't bless LGBT whatever, plenty of people who (Christian or not, Orthodox or not) don't accept any of that and are vocal about it. You make it sound like every house but yours is flying a rainbow flag and that's just far from reality. Yeah, there's a serious societal illness about promoting certain sins. But that doesn't mean that attempting to execute 40+ million people isn't Nazi-style genocide.
Very silly. I’m a 48-year-old man who has traveled to China, Thailand, the Philippines, Greece, Israel, Jordan, and Turkey married to a Filipina, a man with a Masters degree who has taught in a classroom for 25 years and has seen probably more than most, yet you portray me as a fat idiotic boob living in his mommy’s basement learning about the world from the internet. What rubbish.

I live in California. Don’t you try to enlighten me about the LGBT cancer. I have watched my once-conservative, traditional town indeed adopt LGBT flags at residents, businesses, in our schools, city hall, and build a LGBT Center. And yes, Archer, we DO INDEED have drag Queen shows at our beautiful theater downtown and TEACHERS are brainwashing teens and kids to go to them! My school library in an elementary school is now littered with the LGBT rot and diversity literature. Our school district has trainings for teachers to “educate” kids with LGBT brainwashing. Our president lit up the White House with the rainbow. Our sports franchises shame any player who won’t wear a pride patch. We have a gay “married” to another man creep in a major cabinet post and a White House spokesman who is a lesbian. Our country is spending staggering $$$$ to recruit “gender-affirming surgery” surgeons nationwide. Ask my wife and our church friends who are in the medical field. LGBT is the Satanic cancer of our time. Our military is extremely gayed up. I think it is you who has buried your head in the sand pretending this issue is a tiny quiet minority that has amounted to nothing. When we have a boys’ bathroom at my elementary school with a tampon machine, girls in our sixth grade with blue hair wanting to be called male names “identifying” as boys, pride flags….all in a conservative central CA ag town, you might want to wake up, Arch. And the Holocaust language you and a few others invoke in here is beyond hyperbolic. We heard this stuff in the Serbia Kosovo war era. You’re staying with the script given you. West—good & heroic. East—evil despots bent on rebuilding the USSR. No nuances. We’re blameless. We’re on the side of Justice. They are barbaric. We preserve life. They take and throw people in ditches. Putin = Hitler. And I’m the one who learns about the world from the internet
 
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I guess I will never be a tough guy like the Russians. It takes a real man to do what they are doing.

In return I can only imagine how quickly your views would change if you were mobilized in Russia. It is easy to cheer on some ethnic kid from Siberia or the Caucuses to save you from drag queens. It is another to do it yourself or burying one of your own children returning in a body bag.

Meanwhile you and other Putin apologists promote the official script which is a two-step argument. Step One is to make it crystal clear that you are against the war. Then Step Two is to then list the twenty reasons why Putin is doing a great job and service to the world by conducting this special genocidal operation.

As we have seen from previous fascists, Putin follows a "cleansing" argument and his apologists line right up to parrot it. Putin is going a great job because he is cleansing Ukraine of Nazis, or cleansing them from Satan or cleansing them from Drag Queens or cleansing them from BLM. Russian State TV even thinks drowning Ukrainian children is the way to go. Yup, Putin going to cleanse Ukraine. And he is taking the Donbass because he is sooooo concerned about the human rights situation there. Vladimir Putin- the protector of human rights.

Everything going on right now is about Putin and his legacy. It is not about Russia. It is not about Nato. It is not about drag queens. It is about a tin horn dictator trying to leave this world as the next Peter the Great all while becoming Ivan the Terrible more and more each day. The world, especially Russia and Ukraine lose if he succeeds, and they lose even more if he fails, because that type of fragile despot will take his whole country down with him if he fails. He has a good start on that already. It is never good when some of the most decent and skilled people in a country, had./ have to flee and live in another country. Unlike you, I am not willing to see Russia turn into a Boreal North Korea just to get rid of some of the evils of western society. Who are Russia's friends now? Oh. Iran and North Korea. Great. Or not. Who are Putin's closest buddies? Oh the Wagner nut, and the Jihadi Kadyrov. Great. Or not. And who are the two greatest threats to Putin now? That's right. His two aforementioned buddies.

What a mess.


"A corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." Matthew 7.
Well I can only hope to achieve your level of empathy, warmth, knowledge, kindness, and geopolitical prowess, Nick. What can I say? ‍♂️

Your argument is typical of a left wing globalist, which you obviously are:

step 1 for the Nick left wing globalist argument—-
I don’t like Zelensky. I don’t approve of the rampant corruption Ukraine has shown for decades that is obscene. I dont approve of the mass murder committed against Russians in the Donbass for a decade or more perpetrated by Ukrainians. I don’t approve of Zelensky shutting down all opposition political parties. I don’t approve of Zelensky destroying statues of the past or raising queer icons as heroes. I don’t approve of bio labs or Ukraine breaking treaties like Minsk or of a duly elected guy like Yanukovich being being illegally overthrown….uh…but….Putin is Mao, Amin, Pol Pot, Adolf, Stalin, Mussolini, Satan, Moloch, Beelzebub, Bernie Madoff, Epstein, Chuck Manson, Richard Ramirez, and Jeff Dahmer rolled into one! This man deserves oblivion! Rapist! Murderer! A plague upon his house!

Step 2—Look, I don’t like euthanasia, man! I don’t like atheism? I’m no fan of LGBT parades and letting little kids get exposed to men in leather wearing dog masks in chains on all fours! I’m no fan of polyamory or forced COVID vaccination, no lover of abortion and gender Frankenstein surgery! I don’t like stolen elections, ballot-harvesting, plots between Marxist political parties and big tech, locking people up without due process. I’m no fan of inappropriate content and eating bugs and forcing electric vehicles on people. I’m no BLM supporter….but….I’m going to defend those things and the values of Klaus Schwab, George Soros, Bill Gates, Obama, and Biden, because Putin is the Beast! He’s a butcher! CNN, the New York Times, Apple News, and the Pentagon told me so. So, despite 1001 reasons not to support NATO and “the latest thing,” I must trust my boy Zelensky and the World Economic Forum, Macron and Trudeau. Help me, NATO and the EU….you’re my only hope! (Said with Princess Leia voice for effect.)
 
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I miss TAW. The old TAW. We had a couple of liberal characters back then, but the majority were traditional, well-read, well-traveled and thoughtful posters. No hysterics and anti-Russian hate-mongers. It was more theological and moral. And opposing arguments weren’t a bad thing. I learned a lot from Rus, Prodromos, Dot, Father Matt, and Anhelyna. Even guys on the more liberal side like Marcarius were impressive, cerebral, and enlightening. Now TAW sounds like a Starbucks of Gen Z folks regurgitating talking points from Don Lemon and John Kerby. Christian Forums has so many ads that 90% of my iPhone screen is commercials. People like Prodromos and Dot are drowned out and frustrated by a cacophony of activist Parriarch Bartholomew and Elpidophoros types. What the heck happened to this place? 2008-2015 was the golden age of TAW….alas.
 
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Well I can only hope to achieve your level of empathy, warmth, knowledge, kindness, and geopolitical prowess, Nick. What can I say? ‍♂️

Your argument is typical of a left wing globalist, which you obviously are:
I will stand down from further discussion with you for a few days so that the forum may be of good cheer.
 
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