Teen's Interaction With Transgender Woman in YMCA Locker Room Sparks Heated Debate

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ThatRobGuy

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What they are reacting to is a loss of "control", not "capital". They are being forced to react to a (negatively in their view) changing world, and are taking their frustrations out on the people who they view as the cause.
For bitter folks who are of an older generation, I'd be inclined to agree that loss of control (or no longer being put on a societal pedestal after decades of having been). I've touched on that aspect several times with regards to conservative Christians claiming "war on Christmas" when other holidays apart from their own are being acknowledged by retail outlets.

However, for people in the 16-25 demographic, they never really had any "control" to begin with...at least not on an institutional level.
mean if you're really willing to compare people who go through overt racism of the past centuries to living in the US and being a white conservative Christian cisgender male I suggest a few history lessons.

I can certainly understand how people become hateful, but I certainly don't have to condone it, certainly not, for the "plight" of the modern white, conservative, Christian cisgender male.
I'm not saying they're comparable if we're keeping a multi-generational tally of "who's had it worse" throughout history. We all know the answer to that.

I'm saying that if a 22 year old young Black man has spent the last 10 years being called racist names, and unfairly being tailed at the mall by security, treated horribly at traffic stops, etc... It's understandable why he'd develop a chip on his shoulder.

I'm just simply also acknowledging that if a 22 year old young White dude has spent the last 10 years being told that his existence is "toxic", that his membership in a certain religious group him made him a default "bigot", and having people call him an "incel"... His "chip on the shoulder" is going to be understandable as well.

Some of that could be "learned behavior" that's picked up at home... But I don't think that every tiki-torch wielding alt-righter that showed up at Charlottesville is the product of far-right parenting.
And I would agree with you on those issues. Who you date is one of the areas where you have full choice, and people don't really have a right to criticize, because you're not in my opinion capable of controlling who you are attracted to.

We've had discussions in the past though so I am quite sure you are capable of defending yourself when the left makes problematic arguments at you. If you feel for the folks who have the problem of dealing with the world on these issues, try to teach them to calmly stand up for themselves with reason and logic.
I was fortunate enough to be a Gen X'er where life was quite a bit easier to navigate during my teens and early and didn't have so many rules to follow in order to maintain a functioning social life. I can't even remember having partisan discussions with other people my age when I was in my teens and early 20's, and none of my peers even cared who my parents voted for. About as political as it got was a few random bands writing an anti-Bush song.

I don't think people in their teens and early 20's have that luxury now.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Exactly, why not do away with male and female restrooms all together?
If changing rooms are being included in that...

That would first involve getting society over some hang-ups with regards to nudity and certain body parts in general.

That would likely be a larger societal hurdle to overcome than the one being discussed here.

Point of reference: it was quite a legal battle less than a decade ago even in states like California and Colorado (2 fairly progressive states I would say) just for women to be allowed to go topless in certain parks where men are allowed to.
 
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SilverBear

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IF the person this girl saw is the black person who claims to be the one that was there, then apparently she was mistaken. I still want to know why she thought the person was a man. Was it the voice? We don't know. But she thought it was a man. Why is this such a big deal to you? Maybe she made an honest mistake.

You guys all assumed she was lying. Maybe she was maybe she wasn't. NO ONE HAS INVESTIGATED IT. I would think someone would try to find out why she believed the person was man and if the person who says it was her was the same one she saw. Until THOSE questions are asked and answered you are all just assuming the worst.
The New York Post is just one of several news organizations that have investigated. She lied and continues to lie. Deal with it.

Best guess is that the girl was groomed to launch this attack on this specific woman.
 
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SilverBear

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Of course is a mental health issue. You think your something you are not.
[/QUOTE]
Consider just how many people consider themselves to be a good person but others decide that they are they really aren't. who is the one with the problem? The person or those arrogant enough to dictate what someone else is or isn't?
You have any to cut off perfectly healthy and normal body parts and replace them with fake ones that don't work properly.
Don't you find your ongoing obsession with this strange?
If any one else did that you would consider it a mental health issue.

It fits the very definition of it.
the definition of a mental disorder is a mental condition that causes dysfunction in a persons day to day life. And it has to be the condition not that other choose to cause dysfunction.
Except you and transactivists don't want admit it. Cause for some reason even though it fits it doesn't just cause you don't want it to and neither do they.
Look I get how your painting people as sick allows you to pretend that you don't really hate them. It makes you feel better about yourself but this kind of justification isn't healthy for you or anyone.
 
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SilverBear

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This is typical wishy washy liberal thinking. What if one of these trans kids has a gun improvised explosive device primed to go off when disrobation occurs?

The volunteers need to be military or at least veterans in full gear. And they should also arm the civilian observers (so the vets don’t try to use this as a excuse to perv on the naked possibly bomb wearing kids) to keep everyone safe.
it would only be the LGBT kids with the bombs because you know how THOSE people are
 
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Larniavc

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it would only be the LGBT kids with the bombs because you know how THOSE people are
Blowing themselves up in changing rooms is a mandatory part of the Gay Agenda and Big Sodomy.
 
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rjs330

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So, the facts of the matter are known. Whether the girl actually saw the transgender woman naked in any way is unknown, because the person in question says she wasn't walking around naked in the showering room but rather took a shower behind a curtain.

IF it was her maybe SHE is the one that was lying. You guys all accused the girl of lying. But there was something that made her think it was man. What was it?

No one has asked, and maybe the trans person is lying and she gets naked.

You're right the girl did make a big deal if it. And it was because she thought IT WAS A MAN. She believed the trans ideology allowed a MAN to be in the locker room and she didn't want to get out of the shower when there was a naked MAN in the room and she was naked too. Something happened for her to believe it was a man. And you do t know what it was, so why are you attacking her for something of which you don't have the answer to?
 
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rjs330

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Some of that could be "learned behavior" that's picked up at home... But I don't think that every tiki-torch wielding alt-righter that showed up at Charlottesville is the product of far-right parenting.
Yes and not every Antifa rioter left wing arsonist is a product of far left parenting either.
 
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variant

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IF it was her maybe SHE is the one that was lying. You guys all accused the girl of lying. But there was something that made her think it was man. What was it?

When reacted to she clarified that she only saw the person from the back, so she either saw nothing or a backside.

Either way the credibility is poor, and it doesn't matter to the story.
No one has asked, and maybe the trans person is lying and she gets naked.

You're right the girl did make a big deal if it. And it was because she thought IT WAS A MAN. She believed the trans ideology allowed a MAN to be in the locker room and she didn't want to get out of the shower when there was a naked MAN in the room and she was naked too. Something happened for her to believe it was a man. And you do t know what it was, so why are you attacking her for something of which you don't have the answer to?

That can be her view regardless if she is simply misgendering this person.

That her story is full of holes doesn't raise my hackles though it speaks to her credibility and makes it more likely she made the incident up.
 
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rjs330

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The New York Post is just one of several news organizations that have investigated. She lied and continues to lie. Deal with it.

Best guess is that the girl was groomed to launch this attack on this specific woman.

Oh did they interview the girl and ask her why she thought it was a man? What was her answer?
 
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rjs330

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Consider just how many people consider themselves to be a good person but others decide that they are they really aren't. who is the one with the problem? The person or those arrogant enough to dictate what someone else is or isn't?

Don't you find your ongoing obsession with this strange?

the definition of a mental disorder is a mental condition that causes dysfunction in a persons day to day life. And it has to be the condition not that other choose to cause dysfunction.

Look I get how your painting people as sick allows you to pretend that you don't really hate them. It makes you feel better about yourself but this kind of justification isn't healthy for you or anyone.
[/QUOTE]

Biology determines sex. Not your brain. Morality determines if you are a good person or not. Not even the same thing.

What is strange is people chopping off perfectly good working body parts and changing them out for non functioning abnormal body parts. And you think my thoughts are strange?

Yes these people's day to day lives are deeply affected. Otherwise they wouldn't be removing perfectly good bady parts and subjecting themselves to drugs to alter their biology.

They are suffering from an illness and people want to try and help them buy helping them dive into their illness rather than help them through it.

This is particularly bad and dangerous for kids.

As I have said, as an adult if you want to do it, then go ahead. You will have to deal with the consequences of your own adult decisions. What I am far more concerned with is what we are doing with kids.
 
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SilverBear

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Oh did they interview the girl and ask her why she thought it was a man? What was her answer?
it seems that since her lies got exposed, she has refused to talk to anyone. But she doesn't need to because she has thousands of people who know she lied still trying to make her into some kind of hero.
 
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SilverBear

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Biology determines sex. Not your brain.
Biology determines your physical make up and even then it's not an either or thing
Society determines gender rolls
Your mind determines identity


Morality determines if you are a good person or not. Not even the same thing.
and what does morality say about defening and glorifying a liar?


What is strange is people chopping off perfectly good working body parts and changing them out for non functioning abnormal body parts. And you think my thoughts are strange?
your obsession and your purposeful misinformation of this are telling

Yes these people's day to day lives are deeply affected.
affected by people who choose to hate.

Otherwise they wouldn't be removing perfectly good bady parts and subjecting themselves to drugs to alter their biology.
all drugs do that. Does takin Lipitor qualify one as mentally ill?

They are suffering from an illness and people want to try and help them buy helping them dive into their illness rather than help them through it. [/qutoe] no they aren't Deal with it

This is particularly bad and dangerous for kids.
[ being attacked and hated for being who they are. Yes, that is bad and dangerous.

As I have said, as an adult if you want to do it, then go ahead. You will have to deal with the consequences of your own adult decisions. What I am far more concerned with is what we are doing with kids.
yet you keep attacking and maligning them
 
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variant

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For bitter folks who are of an older generation, I'd be inclined to agree that loss of control (or no longer being put on a societal pedestal after decades of having been). I've touched on that aspect several times with regards to conservative Christians claiming "war on Christmas" when other holidays apart from their own are being acknowledged by retail outlets.

However, for people in the 16-25 demographic, they never really had any "control" to begin with...at least not on an institutional level.

There's plenty of intergenerational angst. It goes like this: Generation A (I'm so mad that I don't get to do stuff that I used to be able to or things that are changing around me that I no longer control.) Teaches Generation B (Things used to be different and that isn't right, you shouldn't have to X for group Y at all. Things ought to be different!)

Generation B: Oh woe is me, I am such the victim of group Y.

If you need a short hand word it is called an entitlement mentality and or victim complex.

I'm not saying they're comparable if we're keeping a multi-generational tally of "who's had it worse" throughout history. We all know the answer to that.

I'm saying that if a 22 year old young Black man has spent the last 10 years being called racist names, and unfairly being tailed at the mall by security, treated horribly at traffic stops, etc... It's understandable why he'd develop a chip on his shoulder.

It might be understandable, but it doesn't "matter". That person or group is still going to be judged based upon how they act and what they do with their experiences.

Our understanding of the background doesn't do much other than give us context.
I'm just simply also acknowledging that if a 22 year old young White dude has spent the last 10 years being told that his existence is "toxic", that his membership in a certain religious group him made him a default "bigot", and having people call him an "incel"... His "chip on the shoulder" is going to be understandable as well.

Some of that could be "learned behavior" that's picked up at home... But I don't think that every tiki-torch wielding alt-righter that showed up at Charlottesville is the product of far-right parenting.

"parenting" isn't where people learn everything, certainly not nowadays.

It's weird, I've never been accused of toxic masculinity or was ever called a bigot for merely being Christian (which I was for 21 years).

No, they (tiki-torch wielding alt-righters) are a product of hatred, which we already had in spades decades before an of the complaints you are speaking about. You know, like it simply never went away or subsided ever, but just rather, kept finding new ways to find new audiences.

It's amazing to me that I have to suggest that people are having a hard time of it on the right because they have lots of ideas that other people don't like, and are kind of in your face about it.

It's the sort of thing that liberals set people off with too when they decide to tell you who you supposed to be attracted to after generations of trying to leave that up to people themselves.

I was fortunate enough to be a Gen X'er where life was quite a bit easier to navigate during my teens and early and didn't have so many rules to follow in order to maintain a functioning social life. I can't even remember having partisan discussions with other people my age when I was in my teens and early 20's, and none of my peers even cared who my parents voted for. About as political as it got was a few random bands writing an anti-Bush song.

I don't think people in their teens and early 20's have that luxury now.

Gen X ers memberships in hate groups wasn't a low point, so I question your analysis. All that changed nowadays is the ubiquity of the internet.
 
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variant

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Biology determines sex. Not your brain. Morality determines if you are a good person or not. Not even the same thing.
Brains are biological...

What is strange is people chopping off perfectly good working body parts and changing them out for non functioning abnormal body parts. And you think my thoughts are strange?

The biology of brains can be strange.

Take for instance body integrity disorder where someone's brain tells them their hand shouldn't be attached to them:


We know that a persons "gender identity" isn't always linked to their physical gender (their sex). How deterministic this process is isn't currently known.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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It might be understandable, but it doesn't "matter". That person or group is still going to be judged based upon how they act and what they do with their experiences.

Our understanding of the background doesn't do much other than give us context.
I think the context is important because if you can understand the "why is someone doing that" instead of just the "what are they doing", it at least gives one a chance at intervention.
"parenting" isn't where people learn everything, certainly not nowadays.
Correct, I guess I meant that in a broader sense in that, it's not always learned by someone else in that hate group either.

I don't think it's a case where a person has to have a "hate mentor" or be spending time exclusively on alt-right message boards in order to develop some of the resentments that we see some of them exhibiting.
It's weird, I've never been accused of toxic masculinity or was ever called a bigot for merely being Christian (which I was for 21 years).

No, they (tiki-torch wielding alt-righters) are a product of hatred, which we already had in spades decades before an of the complaints you are speaking about. You know, like it simply never went away or subsided ever, but just rather, kept finding new ways to find new audiences.
I stopped being a member of a religion back when I was 15-16 (unless you count my brief stint as a unitarian for a few years in my early 20's), so I wasn't either.

For the toxic masculinity aspect, every man has been accused of that either directly or indirectly, or at the very least, the idea has been pandered to by some large entities.

This CNN article actually gives a pretty reasonable and balanced view on it
It's amazing to me that I have to suggest that people are having a hard time of it on the right because they have lots of ideas that other people don't like, and are kind of in your face about it.
There's no doubt they're having a hard time of it...but the left also has a lot of ideas that a lot of people don't like

The difference in the level of anger we see exhibited can be at least somewhat attributed to how major institutions treat the bad ideas in the public sphere.

Nobody likes to be told their ideas are stupid. When one side's bad ideas are openly labelled as stupid by most major societal institutions and mocked, and the other side's bad ideas are handled with kid gloves, it's not surprising that one side lashes out in irrational ways more often than the other.

The very concept of "acting out" implies that something is acted out against. If every major institution from entertainment to academia is on your side, there's really no motivation to act out in extreme ways. The same types of people who would've joined Weather Underground in the 70's are complacent today because all of the levers are tipped in their favor.

Gen X ers memberships in hate groups wasn't a low point, so I question your analysis. All that changed nowadays is the ubiquity of the internet.
I'm just referring to normal life and the things that would drive young men into their welcoming arms, in general.

Let's be honest here, no well adjusted person with a good job, great sex life, and aspirations and goals wants to hang out with the likes of Nick Fuentes. Even established conservatives like Ben Shapiro and Michael Knowles don't want anything to do with his ilk.

There was an interesting study (and I've posted it before and see if I can dig it up and link it here), showing that the current social climate has made a startling number of young men (under 35) afraid to even ask a woman out out of fear that they may be labelled some sort of bad thing.

Something like 70% said they were afraid to even approach a co-worker they were attracted to, and close to 50% said they were afraid to ask women out in a general setting out of fear that it may be labelled as "harassment".

And something like almost quarter said that they've specifically avoided intimate encounters out of fear that they may get the same treatment some celebs did and be labelled some sort of predator, retroactively (even though everything was above board when the event occurred)

That's not a healthy society, and that certainly doesn't make for a healthy generation of young men when over half of them are afraid to interact with a woman or ask a woman out because they're afraid they'll get labelled as some sort of sex pest or "creep".


That's something that I never had to be afraid of when I was that age, if I asked a woman out, she either said yes or no, and that was the end of it, I didn't have to worry about being labelled some sort of predator because of a climate that went to far in the other direction and starting labelling "interest" as "harassment"
 
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