A bird with a T. rex head may help reveal how dinosaurs became birds

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,703
2,335
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟467,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
In my opinion, there is no such thing as "Triassic."

What if they took the street you lived on and stretched it out to about 23 million miles, then claimed every hundred thousand miles or so the countryside was different?
The layers are down there. Whether you think it took 2 minutes to lay them down or millions of years does not change that. The layers are down there.

There are distinct Triassic rocks down there. Those Triassic rock layers have distinct fossils characteristic of that period, and have rocks that record ages in a specific range typical of that period. No stretching is involved.

But even if it was "stretched", whatever that means, that in no way changes that the Triassic Period represents a distinct set of rock layers, and these layers must have been laid down before the Jurassic and Cretaceous. Stretch and condense all you want. They still remain distinct layers with distinct fossils.

With no birds.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The layers are down there. Whether you think it took 2 minutes to lay them down or millions of years does not change that. The layers are down there.

Yup.

There are distinct Triassic rocks down there.

"Triassic" is a distinction on the fossil RECORDS, not the fossil LAYERS.

It's a word made-up to account for a specific area under scrutiny.

Those Triassic rock layers have distinct fossils characteristic of that period,

That "period" is the same "period" as the ones above and below it.

They all lived at the same time.

And keep in mind, birds came before dinosaurs in Genesis 1.

But after the Flood, the dinosaur bones were layered, then bird bones over them.

... and have rocks that record ages in a specific range typical of that period.

Nope.

No stretching is involved.

The stretching deals on on paper -- not with the layers themselves.

But even if it was "stretched", whatever that means, that in no way changes that the Triassic Period represents a distinct set of rock layers,

If you want to take a bag of marbles and call some "cat eyes," and some "clearsies," and some "yellow jackets," etc., you can do so.

They all exist in your bag at the same time.

But if I come along and layer them with the cat eyes on the bottom, the clearsies over them, and the yellow jackets over them, don't tell me they represent a million years of work on my part.

... and these layers must have been laid down before the Jurassic and Cretaceous.

Whatever.

I could have layered the clearsies first, then the cat eyes, then the yellow jackets.

Either way, I did it "line upon line."

But keep in mind, at one time, they were all together at once.

Stretch and condense all you want.

No -- that's what science does.

And it contradicts the Bible doing it.

They still remain distinct layers with distinct fossils.

That's why they're called "layers."

With no birds.

I don't care if you find birds above, below, or with the dinosaur fossils.

In Genesis 1, they came into existence BEFORE the dinosaurs.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,703
2,335
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟467,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
AV1611VET,

I see you simply ignore my questions. No problem, I will just post them again.

If you say God arranged it this way after the Flood, why did he arrange it so everything looks so much like what we would expect if the Earth was here for 4.5 billion years? Why does it look so little like what we would expect if a massive flood-cleanup had occurred 4500 years ago in a young Earth? Why do we find dinosaur nests and dinosaur footprints in these supposed flood-cleanup layers?​
If you say God laid these rocks out 4500 years ago complete with embedded age and embedded dinosaur footprints, how do I know that he did not create me last Thursday complete with embedded age and embedded memories?​

You postulate a God who takes the remains of a global flood and arranges it to look like the result of natural processes over hundreds of millions of years. If such a God exists, then we could know nothing, for a God that powerful who goes to all that effort to lay things out so deceptively could be deceiving you right now. If such a God exists, then it could be that this post actually says, "The Earth was created Last Thursday", but your God simply rearranges all the photons reaching everybody's retinas so they read this sentence instead. Prove me wrong.


"Triassic" is a distinction on the fossil RECORDS, not the fossil LAYERS.

It's a word made-up to account for a specific area under scrutiny.
No sir, "Triassic" is the name for distinct rock layers found in the Earth. Many of the geologic layers were named by creationists like Adam Sedgwick . They saw distinct rock formations in Great Britain with distinct fossils. To keep things straight, they gave these layers names like Cambrian, Silurian, and Devonian. Since these layers contained distinct fossils, and always overlaid in the same order where they overlapped, these creationists came to the conclusion that God created different life in different time periods in the past. Most of them thought these time periods occurred before Genesis 1:2.

This is your astounding, reasoned response to, "..and have rocks that record ages in a specific range typical of that period."

In other words, you have no answer to why the rocks intermixed with all those fossil layers down there have the right amounts of lead, argon, rubidium, strontium, helium and other elements all intermixed at the right portions everywhere to make it obvious to scientists that over 200 million years of radioactive decay have occurred in the Triassic layers after they were deposited. You simply close your eyes and say, "Nope".

My guess is that deep inside, you do wonder what you would see if you opened your eyes, yes?

Your God would not mind if you peeked, just a little.

The stretching deals on on paper -- not with the layers themselves.

Wrong. I have shown you 3 different large areas where the fossil record is over 1 mile thick, with multiple dating methods showing that these rocks were deposited over millions of years (Arizona, Michigan, and Iraq).

If you are going to close your eyes when we show this evidence, there is nothing we can do for you.

But perhaps there are other people reading this that would like to know what they would see if they opened their eyes. They could start here: Flood Geology and Scientific Creationism
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Estrid
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,545
3,180
39
Hong Kong
✟147,414.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
We turn now to hypothetical birds in the Triassic? We can't find any real birds down there, so you turn to hypothetical birds? Really?

Hypothetically speaking, if a new confirmed finding hypothetically differs with established scientific theory, we would need to look for the best explanation. Case closed. Next question.

Back to reality. We find vast layers of Triassic rock throughout the Earth. There are many fossils of dinosaurs and other prehistoric life in these layers. But we never find mammals or birds. These Triassic layers are always below ther you think it took 2 minutes to lay them down or millions of years does not change that. The layers are down there.

There are distinct Triassic rocks down there. Those Triassic rock layers have distinct fossils characteristic of that period, and have rocks that record ages in a specific range typical of that period. No stretching is involved.

But even if it was "stretched", whatever that means, that in no way changes that the Triassic Period represents a distinct set of rock layers, and these layers must have been laid down before the Jurassic and Cretaceous. Stretch and condense all you want. They still remain distinct layers with distinct fossils.

With no birds.
No horses, cats, trout, dogs, pigs,
seals, oak trees, or ten thousand
other things that are common fossils
in more recent strata.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,703
2,335
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟467,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Keep looking.
What do you think scientists have been doing?

We have found fossils of thousands of non-avian dinosaurs. Here is a list of known genera-- List of dinosaur genera - Wikipedia . Each may consist of multiple species. Each may consist of multiple instances. That's a lot of known dinosaur fossils.

All of them appear in the Triassic, Jurassic, or Cretaceous layers. None are in the Cambrian. None are in the Ordovician. None are in the Silurian or Devonian. We find many other fossils down there in those layers. But never do we find a dinosaur down there.

Why not? Simple. There were no dinosaurs in the Cambrian.

And you have no reasonable explanation for that.
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,545
3,180
39
Hong Kong
✟147,414.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
What do you think scientists have been doing?

We have found fossils of thousands of non-avian dinosaurs. Here is a list of known genera-- List of dinosaur genera - Wikipedia . Each may consist of multiple species. Each may consist of multiple instances. That's a lot of known dinosaur fossils.

All of them appear in the Triassic, Jurassic, or Cretaceous layers. None are in the Cambrian. None are in the Ordovician. None are in the Silurian or Devonian. We find many other fossils down there in those layers. But never do we find a dinosaur down there.

Why not? Simple. There were no dinosaurs in the Cambrian.

And you have no reasonable explanation for that.
" for anything"
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,545
3,180
39
Hong Kong
✟147,414.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Yep. This is the fossilized remains of... then later on, never mind it isn't. Or this fossil or geological formation means... then later on, never mind it doesn't.
Ah. You make things up.
So?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Ceallaigh

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
18,759
9,860
The Keep
✟571,623.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ah. You make things up.
So?
If you think I made that up, you must not know much about the history of long held scientific findings being proven wrong by new scientific findings. Or are you just trying to do the snappy come back thing, instead of having a real conversation?
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
12,128
6,377
29
Wales
✟346,888.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
Yep. This is the fossilized remains of... then later on, never mind it isn't. Or this fossil or geological formation means... then later on, never mind it doesn't.

That's kind of not what happens at all.

Yes, when science advances and shows things to be wrong, then certain things will be replaced or just outright discarded. But a fossil is still a fossil. This fossil will still be of a avian dinosaur with a bird like body and a tyrannosaur-style head. That will not change, regardless if it is found out down the line that this creature is part of the link of dinosaur to bird evolution.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, when science advances and shows things to be wrong, then certain things will be replaced or just outright discarded. But a fossil is still a fossil.

Yes indeed.

There's a difference between a fossil (hardware) and a fossil record (software), isn't there?
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
12,128
6,377
29
Wales
✟346,888.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
Yes indeed.

There's a difference between a fossil (hardware) and a fossil record (software), isn't there?

No, both are hardware since neither can change. Only you yourself have an issue with their being a fossil record.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,678
51,423
Guam
✟4,896,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, both are hardware since neither can change. Only you yourself have an issue with their being a fossil record.

Hardware: a peccary tooth.

Software: Hesperopithecus haroldcookii, later deleted and changed to peccary.
 
Upvote 0

Estrid

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
9,545
3,180
39
Hong Kong
✟147,414.00
Country
Hong Kong
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
In Relationship
If you think I made that up, you must not know much about the history of long held scientific findings being proven wrong by new scientific findings. Or are you just trying to do the snappy come back thing, instead of having a real conversation?
I know far more than you about
science, well past enough to
recognize the particle of truth you
so exaggerated with your snarky quip.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ceallaigh

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
18,759
9,860
The Keep
✟571,623.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I know far more than you about
science, well past enough to
recognize the particle of truth you
so exaggerated with your snarmy quip.
Then demonstrate it instead of trying to have a smarmy quip contest with me.
 
Upvote 0