Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake a Birthday Cake for Transgendered Person

Hank77 said:

That's true.
But...
I would not ask a Jewish baker to make me a cake representing Christianity because I respect that the Jewish baker has his own belief system that does not include the man called Jesus.

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does that Jewish baker make cakes with Cristian themes for anybody? No? the it is not something comparable in that the Jewish baker is not rejecting you or even refusing you because he doesn't make such cakes period. The baker at masterpiece bakery however does make wedding cakes he just refused to make on for a couple because they were members of a minority. It has nothing to do with celebrating anything, the man made cakes for dog weddings. Let's not pretend he celebrated the nuptials of Spot and Fifi, he didn't.

Hank77 said:

Neither would I ask an LGBT+ baker, to make me a cake that would support my beliefs but be against what he believes. It would be disrespectful for me to expect them to fill the order.

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why in the world would an LGBT refuse to make you a cake? Every LGBT person I know, like so many people who have been subjected to hate and discrimination throughout their lives cringe at the idea of treating someone else they are treated.

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iluvatar5150 said:

Bakeries don’t typically stock ready-made birthday cakes. SOP is to have a menu with standard options from which you place an order, like this: Flavors | Frostings | Fillings | MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP

But perhaps you can explain for us the difference between a blue and pink birthday cake and a blue and pink transition cake.

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one is a cake for the birthday of someone. The other is a cake for a filthy sick pervert that deserves to be treated like dirt...but none of that has to do with hate.

Hammster said:

He shouldn’t be forced to make a cake that violates his conscience.

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In this case, he didn't have a problem with the cake. Just the customer.

Hammster said:

Right. As should be his right.

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Hammster said:

Yes. They should operate within the law.

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At the risk of stating the obvious, your beef is with non-discrimination laws. You can petition your elected representatives to have them removed, but I don't think you'll find many people eager to turn the clock back to the 1950s.

DaisyDay said:

Deliberately offensive designs are one thing, but a pink birthday cake with blue frosting is quite another.

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I agree. Scardina didn't just order a pink and blue cake though, and had this person done so, you would be correct. Scardina explained clearly that this particular cake was to celebrate the kind of event that Phillips did not do. After the repeated harassment, Phillips understandably declined.

This is not in good faith, nor is it about the acquisition of a pink and blue cake.

SilverBear said:

to bad there is no evidence showing Scardina did this much less evidence that he ever received such an order

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I already cited the source in a previous post. Yes, Scardina did indeed make several harassing requests: Christian Baker Must Make a Cake ‘Celebrating’ Gender Transition, Court Rules


Even in the current case: In fact, Scardina had already made numerous other requests that would violate Phillips’s faith. In a deposition, Scardina admitted asking Phillips “to make me a cake with an image of Satan smoking a joint.” Legal briefs say Scardina asked Phillips to bake a cake with Beelzebub puffing cannabis atop red and black icing in order to “correct the errors of [Phillips’s] thinking.” Both calls came shortly after an individual named “Autumn Marie” came into the shop to ask for a cake decorated with a Satanic pentagram.

Phillips attempted to settle the matter peacefully, agreeing to sell Scardina a premade pink-and-blue cake — provided Phillips did not personally have to create the cake specifically for Scardina’s gender-transition celebration. Phillips also offered to pay Scardina more than the maximum fine the state could impose to settle the issue, a move Scardina rebuffed.

RestoreTheJoy said:

this particular cake was to celebrate the kind of event that Phillips did not do.

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Philips was not asked to 'do an event', he was asked to bake a blue and pink cake.

essentialsaltes said:

Philips was not asked to 'do an event', he was asked to bake a blue and pink cake.

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No, Scardina refused a generic pink and blue cake. See previous post; it's in the record. Phillips not only agreed to provide a generic pink and blue cake, which Scardina DECLINED, but Phillips even offered MONEY to make Scardina just go away and stop harassing him. Just cited. Scardina declined, because it is not about acquiring the pink and blue cake.

Phillips attempted to settle the matter peacefully, agreeing to sell Scardina a premade pink-and-blue cake — provided Phillips did not personally have to create the cake specifically for Scardina’s gender-transition celebration. Phillips also offered to pay Scardina more than the maximum fine the state could impose to settle the issue, a move Scardina rebuffed.

RestoreTheJoy said:

No, Scardina refused a generic pink and blue cake. See previous post; it's in the record. Phillips not only agreed to provide a generic pink and blue cake, which Scardina DECLINED, but Phillips even offered MONEY to make Scardina just go away and stop harassing him. Just cited. Scardina declined, because it is not about acquiring the pink and blue cake.

Phillips attempted to settle the matter peacefully, agreeing to sell Scardina a premade pink-and-blue cake — provided Phillips did not personally have to create the cake specifically for Scardina’s gender-transition celebration. Phillips also offered to pay Scardina more than the maximum fine the state could impose to settle the issue, a move Scardina rebuffed.

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I think you're reading something that isn't there. If I understand it, the distinction the not-very-neutral article is trying to make is between a "premade" cake and one made for her. Elsewhere the article describes the cake: "the design of the cake (a pink cake with blue frosting)". It doesn't appear that any additional decoration was requested.

iluvatar5150 said:

Because that distinction is at the heart of your argument.

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No, it isn't. It's not about icing colors it's about the celebration that Mr. Phillips doesn't believe he should be contributing to in any way.

Go back and read his reasoning for not making the wedding cake and it's the same reason.

It's not my argument, it's his argument.

iluvatar5150 said:

Because that distinction is at the heart of your argument.

So, what's the difference between a blue and pink "birthday" cake and a blue and pink "transition" cake?



Most of your statements in this thread have been opinion.

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I think I've only responded when someone got a fact wrong. Only then did I add what I understand Mr. Phillips's reasoning to be.

SilverBear said:

does that Jewish baker make cakes with Cristian themes for anybody? No? the it is not something comparable in that the Jewish baker is not rejecting you or even refusing you because he doesn't make such cakes period.

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You said that it wasn't respectful to turn anyone away so they are offended. I'm pointing out that it isn't respectful to ask someone to do something that will cause them to be unfaithful to their religious beliefs.
If you know it will hurt someone to ask them to do something that you can ask someone else to do why would you deliberately choose to hurt them? That my friend is disrespectful.

SilverBear said:

The baker at masterpiece bakery however does make wedding cakes he just refused to make on for a couple because they were members of a minority.

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really?

essentialsaltes said:

In this case, he didn't have a problem with the cake. Just the customer.

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Phillips attempted to settle the matter peacefully, agreeing to sell Scardina a premade pink-and-blue cake — provided Phillips did not personally have to create the cake specifically for Scardina’s gender-transition celebration

He doesn't create gender-transition celebration cakes for anyone just like he doesn't create cakes for Halloween celebrations, divorce celebrations, and a few other things as well for anyone.

RestoreTheJoy said:

I already cited the source in a previous post. Yes, Scardina did indeed make several harassing requests: Christian Baker Must Make a Cake ‘Celebrating’ Gender Transition, Court Rules


Even in the current case: In fact, Scardina had already made numerous other requests that would violate Phillips’s faith. In a deposition, Scardina admitted asking Phillips “to make me a cake with an image of Satan smoking a joint.” Legal briefs say Scardina asked Phillips to bake a cake with Beelzebub puffing cannabis atop red and black icing in order to “correct the errors of [Phillips’s] thinking.” Both calls came shortly after an individual named “Autumn Marie” came into the shop to ask for a cake decorated with a Satanic pentagram.

Phillips attempted to settle the matter peacefully, agreeing to sell Scardina a premade pink-and-blue cake — provided Phillips did not personally have to create the cake specifically for Scardina’s gender-transition celebration. Phillips also offered to pay Scardina more than the maximum fine the state could impose to settle the issue, a move Scardina rebuffed.

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the court filings this....journalistic piece is sourcing doesn't say anything about the claims you made in post 217