Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake a Birthday Cake for Transgendered Person

mark46

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Anyone should be able to serve anyone they want, just not in a public place open to the public.

When selling to the public, society has the "right" to decide on rules.

There are those who refuse to participate in this Social Contract. They are FREE to choose to live and not interact with the public, which would make them subject to the laws of the state.
 
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SilverBear

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He wasn't discriminating against a person or group of persons, he was discriminating against an action taken by the person and refusing to help them celebrate that action.
Hate almost sounds acceptable when you put it in a pretty package like that
 
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SilverBear

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Ok...I'll gladly go back to my example of a Jewish baker who gets a request for a cake decorated with swastikas for Hitler's birthday.




Hilarious.



Not even a little.




He's the only victim here if there is one.
He chose to break the law. No one forced him to do it. He isn't a victim
 
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SilverBear

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Scardina has harassed him for a decade, once ordering a cake with a working black p#nis apparatus on it, offering to provide it if he didn't have one, knowing full well he was going to object.
to bad there is no evidence showing Scardina did this much less evidence that he ever received such an order
 
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NBB

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Why they want to force the man to do something against his values? its not discrimination, its the same as if you would be forced to wear a lgbt t shirt. This guy is getting into trouble because he has principles, he has values, he cares, if he didn't give a damn he of course would make the cake. They want acceptance by force it seems sometimes, i wonder how in the bottom of people hearts if that is going to make them agreeing more with their cause.
 
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Pommer

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Why they want to force the man to do something against his values? its not discrimination, its the same as if you would be forced to wear a lgbt t shirt. This guy is getting into trouble because he has principles, he has values, he cares, if he didn't give a damn he of course would make the cake. They want acceptance by force it seems sometimes, i wonder how in the bottom of people hearts if that is going to make them agreeing more with their cause.
The guy bakes, decorates and sells cakes.
He agreed to bake a pink cake and frost it with blue icing, and only balked when the customer told him why they had wanted it “that way”.
How does that “change” his labor?
 
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Hank77

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He wasn't asked to make a "transition celebration cake." He was asked to make a blue and pink cake, which was a standard (i.e. non-custom) design he offered to everybody. It was only after the customer communicated her personal interpretation of that design that he declined.
The transwoman lawyer asked him for a birthday cake. He agreed to make her a birthday cake to celebrate her birthday he assumed, like a normal person. Then this person tells him that she wants to celebrate a transition which she called a birthday. He doesn't make transition birthday cakes for anyone.
EDIT: He doesn't make cakes to celebrate a gender transition. Just Like he doesn't make Halloween cakes.
If she had been honest from the start instead of setting him up he would have told her that from the start, which she knew he would.
 
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Hank77

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Hate almost sounds acceptable when you put it in a pretty package like that
lol, it's really really hard for some people to accept people who have a different view than they do.
Why can't you accept that someone who does business with LGBT people but has a few things that they just won't do because of their deep spiritual beliefs? Do you answer to any higher power? Do you have any deeply held beliefs that would keep you from doing certain things? Is there anything that you find too immoral or too corrupt to take part in?
I don't expect an answer to any of those questions but maybe just think about them.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The transwoman lawyer asked him for a birthday cake.

That's right. She asked a pink birthday cake with blue frosting. There was no trans-related messaging requested to be on the cake. This was part of their standard offerings to the public, which Phillips had previously said he'd be happy to sell to LGBTQ folks.


He agreed to make her a birthday cake to celebrate her birthday he assumed, like a normal person.

Nice flame there. Okay.

Then this person tells him that she wants to celebrate a transition which she called a birthday. He doesn't make transition birthday cakes for anyone.

In this case, there is no difference between a blue and pink "birthday" cake and a blue and pink "trans birthday" cake. The cakes themselves are identical. The only difference is in who's buying them and why. Again, if you agree to sell a product to Person A, but not Person B, you're discriminating against the Person, not refusing to make the product. What's so hard to understand about this?

There's no difference between this and refusing service to a Muslim after finding out they were Muslim.

EDIT: He doesn't make cakes to celebrate a gender transition. Just Like he doesn't make Halloween cakes.

Does he make black and orange cakes without halloween imagery on them?

If she had been honest from the start instead of setting him up he would have told her that from the start, which she knew he would.
She was honest with him from the start. No part of this has anything to do with her deceiving him. He made claims in public about what he would and would not sell to the LGBTQ community and when she gave him the opportunity to follow through on those claims, he reneged.
 
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SilverBear

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lol, it's really really hard for some people to accept people who have a different view than they do.
It's really really hard for some people to accept people who are different and then treat them with the same respect they want for themselves.
Why can't you accept that someone who does business with LGBT people but has a few things that they just won't do because of their deep spiritual beliefs?


Should I accept the same for someone's deep spiritual beliefs about black people? about the handicapped? about Jews?

Discrimination is discrimination no mater how much you wave a bible around
Do you answer to any higher power? Do you have any deeply held beliefs that would keep you from doing certain things? Is there anything that you find too immoral or too corrupt to take part in?
For sone I won't discriminate against a minority
I don't expect an answer to any of those questions but maybe just think about them.
Well you got an answer. Try thinking about it
 
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SilverBear

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Why they want to force the man to do something against his values? its not discrimination, its the same as if you would be forced to wear a lgbt t shirt. This guy is getting into trouble because he has principles, he has values, he cares, if he didn't give a damn he of course would make the cake. They want acceptance by force it seems sometimes, i wonder how in the bottom of people hearts if that is going to make them agreeing more with their cause.
R.948bb0a5135619035b8328340d24608d

Just like how the manager of the Broadway theatre was forced to go against his values and take down this sign
 
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Hank77

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This was part of their standard offerings to the public, which Phillips had previously said he'd be happy to sell to LGBTQ folks.
No that's not what he said. He said that they could buy anything already made in the shop but he would not do special orders for certain things. She was asking him to make this cake for her specifically. She could have bought any pre-made cake.
He would have made her a birthday cake but not a transition cake.
 
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Hank77

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It's really really hard for some people to accept people who are different and then treat them with the same respect they want for themselves.
That's true.
But...
I would not ask a Jewish baker to make me a cake representing Christianity because I respect that the Jewish baker has his own belief system that does not include the man called Jesus.

Neither would I ask an LGBT+ baker, to make me a cake that would support my beliefs but be against what he believes. It would be disrespectful for me to expect them to fill the order.
 
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DaisyDay

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The guy bakes, decorates and sells cakes.
He agreed to bake a pink cake and frost it with pink icing, and only balked when the customer told him why they had wanted it “that way”.
How does that “change” his labor?
No, it's a pink cake with blue icing! That's different!!!
 
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iluvatar5150

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No that's not what he said. He said that they could buy anything already made in the shop but he would not do special orders for certain things. She was asking him to make this cake for her specifically. She could have bought any pre-made cake.
He would have made her a birthday cake but not a transition cake.
Bakeries don’t typically stock ready-made birthday cakes. SOP is to have a menu with standard options from which you place an order, like this: Flavors | Frostings | Fillings | MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP

But perhaps you can explain for us the difference between a blue and pink birthday cake and a blue and pink transition cake.
 
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Hank77

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But perhaps you can explain for us the difference between a blue and pink birthday cake and a blue and pink transition cake.
Why would I do something silly like that?

I'm just trying to state facts. Surely you don't have a problem with that?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Why would I do something silly like that?

Because that distinction is at the heart of your argument.

So, what's the difference between a blue and pink "birthday" cake and a blue and pink "transition" cake?

I'm just trying to state facts. Surely you don't have a problem with that?

Most of your statements in this thread have been opinion.
 
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DaisyDay

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Good catch, off to edit it.
There are certain colors of cake and frosting that you simply can't mix, if you're a certain kind of Christian.
 
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