Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake a Birthday Cake for Transgendered Person

iluvatar5150 · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
Christians making laws based on God’s word. I would assume you’d be for it.

What laws, specifically, were you thinking of? And why would you assume I’d support an attempt at establishing a theocracy?

Ana the Ist · Jan 28, 2023

PloverWing said:
No, that is not what I am saying.

I definitely see the parallel with segregation, and I think the court's decision was the right one in this case.

My point is more about wondering what the best strategic path is, to get from here to where we want to be. We've had some important legal victories, with Lawrence and Obergefell, and those are both absolutely important decisions. But I think a lot of the work from here is persuading our conservative neighbors, not just passing laws. Laws are important, but they don't always change minds, and sometimes they result in backlash. So I'm thinking it might be time to step back from the lawsuits and employ other means of persuasion.

I could be wrong. The civil rights movement of the 20th century needed laws, not just persuasion. But persuasion was involved too. I'm trying to guess what mix of laws and persuasion is the right balance for the LGBTQ human rights movement.

Declare the LGBTQ movement a religion. The features are similar.

Faith based.
Not grounded in objective reality.
Importance placed on personal experiences/feelings.
Ritualistic.
Willing to impose itself upon science for validation.
Authoritarian tendency towards silencing opposition.

It's close enough to a religion for me.

Hammster · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
What laws, specifically, were you thinking of?

All laws.

iluvatar5150 said:
And why would you assume I’d support an attempt at establishing a theocracy?

And I’m not talking about theocracy. But we should have laws based on what Christ would want, especially since the government is a servant of the King.

Ana the Ist · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
yes

Because you got the stories mixed up. Jack Philips is from Colorado, not Oregon. However, a story about Philips is linked to near the top of that article, and in the story about Philips, he’s named:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/masterpiece-colorado-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court

The Oregon case was for a bakery owned by Melissa and Aaron Klein. I know that because they’re named in the article you provided.

So he's not the guy in the picture?

Pommer · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
Still not answering the question.

What query did thee pose to me?

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
So you’d have no problem making a vulgar cake for a pedophile?

Do I make vulgar cakes? No, I don't. So no I wouldn't make a vulgar cake for this individual just as I won't make a vulgar cake for you. The choice to not make a vulgar cake has nothing to do with who is wanting such a cake.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
Only if they want to go to jail.

Now YOU just moved the goalposts.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
She didn't have to tell the bake shop she was trans- that was needlessly provocative, and I'll explain here: being needlessly provocative towards people like Philips potentially rewards their transphobia by letting them feel justified in their presumed (but deluded) victimization, owing to the dynamics of the Fundamentalist Evangelical worldview. It also raises their profile needlessly. In this political atmosphere, misplaced noteriety doesn't help to advance genuine social change.

The customer didn't have to tell the bake shop anything but telling does not make the refusal OK.

Hammster · Jan 28, 2023

SilverBear said:
Do I make vulgar cakes? No, I don't. So no I wouldn't make a vulgar cake for this individual just as I won't make a vulgar cake for you. The choice to not make a vulgar cake has nothing to do with who is wanting such a cake.

So you have a line you won’t cross.

Thanks.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
When?

Live and let live....

Until your daughter runs into that woman with a penis at the YMCA gym.

Except in the case you are referring to the girl lied and there was no woman with a penis

[/QUOTE]

FireDragon76 · Jan 28, 2023

SilverBear said:
The customer didn't have to tell the bake shop anything but telling does not make the refusal OK.

Of course it isn't OK. However, trying to settle it in court raises the profile of Philips, and it raises the profile of people that agree with his transphobic attitudes. And that's not a good way to change peoples attitudes in a positive direction.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
So you have a line you won’t cross.

Thanks.

and what is this line? That I won't sell something I don't make?

Hammster · Jan 28, 2023

SilverBear said:
and what is this line? That I won't sell something I don't make?

That you won’t make something that you don’t want to make.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 28, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
So he's not the guy in the picture?

Which picture? In your article, I see a video that is about (and names) Jack Phillips. Not sure why that’s there unless CNN made the same error. The only still photo I see has what looks to be Phillips standing behind a woman, but with a caption that references a third case about a florist, so I’m not positive about who it is.

I’m on mobile, so I’m possibly getting a different layout than you.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
That you won’t make something that you don’t want to make.

in my imaginary bakery I don't make a lot of things. I don't make BLT's either. That doesn't mean I don't like BLT's its just that i don't make them and not making and selling BLT's in my imaginary bakery is nothing to with discrimination. Just as your pedophile themed cake has nothing to do with the topic of this thread other than it being a rather pathetic attempt to promote hatred of LGBT individuals.

Hammster · Jan 28, 2023

SilverBear said:
in my imaginary bakery I don't make a lot of things. I don't make BLT's either. That doesn't mean I don't like BLT's its just that i don't make them and not making and selling BLT's in my imaginary bakery is nothing to with discrimination. Just as your pedophile themed cake has nothing to do with the topic of this thread other than it being a rather pathetic attempt to promote hatred of LGBT individuals.

You’ve stated that you won’t make something vulgar. That’s subjective. But you are right to stick with your standards. You shouldn’t be forced to make something you morally object to.

SilverBear · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
You’ve stated that you won’t make something vulgar. That’s subjective. But you are right to stick with your standards. You shouldn’t be forced to make something you morally object to.

BLT's are not vulgar and i have no moral objection to them.

essentialsaltes · Jan 28, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Why are we naming this guy now? I never knew his name before....despite his case reaching the SCOTUS.

Is the naming a deliberate attempt to pressure him socially to conform or just make him easier to target?

This post is more than 10 years old.

hislegacy · Jan 28, 2023

Question: How many times will this man have to be sued for the same actions - when the case has already been settled in the US Supreme Court, before the people doing this time and time again get thrown out of court and sued themselves?

loveofourlord · Jan 28, 2023

Hammster said:
Eventually Christians will be the majority and we will get back to biblical principles.

EVENTUALLY? We already are a maority by a long shot, and the numbers are dropping no chance of them ever going back up and stuff like going after LGBTQ and science is why they are dropping.

Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake a Birthday Cake for Transgendered Person

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