Sola Fide

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Clare73 said:
Are you in agreement with Ro 3:25 that saving faith is particular in its looking to the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ for us?

I am, by God's grace, in agreement with holy scripture and since Romans 3:25 is in holy scripture I am in agreement with it. I may not be in agreement with your interpretation of that verse.

In Catholic teaching, Romans 3:25 is seen as a crucial verse that explains the meaning of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. The verse states: "God put forward [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to show his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed."

This verse is understood as explaining the concept of justification, which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ. Catholic teaching holds that justification is a free gift of God's grace, which is offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is not something that can be earned through good works or human effort but it is a gift of God's love and mercy.

Furthermore, Romans 3:25 highlights the two aspects of justification: the objective aspect (the gift of righteousness) and the subjective aspect (the gift of faith) that God grants to the believer. The verse also emphasizes that Christ's sacrifice was effective through faith, meaning that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for justification.

In summary, Catholic teaching understands Romans 3:25 as emphasizing the concept of justification, which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ and emphasizes the role of faith in the process of justification, which is a free gift of God's grace, offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Mark Quayle · Jan 23, 2023

concretecamper said:
Why would you refer the the Word of God as such. Horrible

What makes you think she is referring to the Word of God as such? Or is this just a generic, "Why would 'one' refer to the Word of God as such."?

Mark Quayle · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
In the Catholic perspective, saving faith is rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself" (CCC, 1814).

Scripture references that support the Catholic perspective on saving faith include:

Hebrews 11:1 which states "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This verse highlights the importance of having faith in things that are not yet visible or tangible.

John 3:16, which says "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." This verse emphasizes the importance of belief in Jesus Christ as the means of salvation.

Romans 10:9-10, which states "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." This verse highlights the importance of confessing faith in Jesus Christ and the role of belief in the heart in salvation.

In summary, the Catholic perspective on saving faith is that it is a theological virtue by which one believes in God and all that he has revealed through Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible, and it is rooted in the belief that Jesus is the saviour of the world and that through faith in Him we will have eternal life.

Footnote:

In Catholic teaching, faith and works are both important aspects of the Christian life. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "Faith and works are intimately united, for it is by faith that we are led to do good works".

Scripture references that support Catholic teaching on faith and works include:

James 2:17, which states "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." This verse highlights the importance of good works as a manifestation of faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10 which states "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." This verse emphasizes the importance of good works as a result of grace, and faith, not as a way to earn salvation.

In summary, Catholic teaching emphasizes that faith and works are intimately connected, and that faith without works is dead. Faith leads us to do good works, which are a sign of our faith and our response to God's grace. Good works are not a way to earn salvation, but the natural outcome of faith in God.

So how are all the additions necessary to obtain salvation? I hear you here denying it, yet you said earlier, "Why play around with words; salvation is the goal, faith, good works, sacraments are the path. Each is needed, none are optional." In saying that "sacraments are the path", you are contradicting what you wrote above, that works are only "intimately connected", and "are not a way to earn salvation, but the natural outcome of faith in God." I have also, as have you, no doubt, heard other even more obvious contradictions. This comes across to me as double-talk, or just as bad, as a mere poetic or 'general feeling' vague theology.

Clare73 · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am, by God's grace, in agreement with holy scripture and since Romans 3:25 is in holy scripture I am in agreement with it. I may not be in agreement with your interpretation of that verse.
In Catholic teaching, Romans 3:25 is seen as a crucial verse that explains the meaning of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. The verse states: "God put forward [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to show his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed."
This verse is understood as explaining the concept of justification, which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ.

Keeping in mind that justification (dikaiosis) is a forensic righteousness.
Actual righteousness (dikaiosune) is through works of obedience by the Holy Spirit in the Christian life, which lead to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19).

Xeno.of.athens said:
Catholic teaching holds that justification is a free gift of God's grace, which is offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is not something that can be earned through good works or human effort but it is a gift of God's love and mercy.

Furthermore, Romans 3:25 highlights the two aspects of justification: the objective aspect (the gift of righteousness) and the subjective aspect (the gift of faith) that God grants to the believer.

However, it is justification that is by faith, faith is not by justification (sentence of acquittal, forensic), faith is the cause of justification (Ro 3:28).
Faith is a gift (Php 1:29), which results in salvation (Eph 2:8-9) and justification (Ro 3:28).
Salvation and justification have been procured by Christ for those of faith in him, they have a right to them (Jn 1:12) by that gift of faith.

Xeno.of.athens said:
The verse also emphasizes that Christ's sacrifice was effective through faith, meaning that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for justification.

Yes, both salvation (Eph 2:8-9) and justification (Ro 3:28) are by faith--not by works, but apart from works.

Xeno.of.athens said:
In summary, Catholic teaching understands Romans 3:25 as emphasizing the concept of justification,

Ro 3:25 is about salvation (from condemnation), through faith, in his blood, while
Ro 3:28 is about justification (forensic righteousness) through that same faith, and
Ro 6:16-19 is about actual righteousness through obedience of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life.

Xeno.of.athens said:
which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ and emphasizes the role of faith in the process of justification, which is a free gift of God's grace, offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

BBAS 64 · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am, by God's grace, in agreement with holy scripture and since Romans 3:25 is in holy scripture I am in agreement with it. I may not be in agreement with your interpretation of that verse.

In Catholic teaching, Romans 3:25 is seen as a crucial verse that explains the meaning of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. The verse states: "God put forward [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to show his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed."

This verse is understood as explaining the concept of justification, which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ. Catholic teaching holds that justification is a free gift of God's grace, which is offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is not something that can be earned through good works or human effort but it is a gift of God's love and mercy.

Furthermore, Romans 3:25 highlights the two aspects of justification: the objective aspect (the gift of righteousness) and the subjective aspect (the gift of faith) that God grants to the believer. The verse also emphasizes that Christ's sacrifice was effective through faith, meaning that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for justification.

In summary, Catholic teaching understands Romans 3:25 as emphasizing the concept of justification, which is the process by which God declares a sinner to be righteous through faith in Jesus Christ and emphasizes the role of faith in the process of justification, which is a free gift of God's grace, offered to all people through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Good Day,

Here is the crux for my leaving the Roman Catholic denomination.

They are incapable of clearly distinguishing between Justification ( a declaration about you) and Sanctification something that is done to you.

I never allow the process that I experience (Sanctification) uncut what I truly am (Justified).

In Him,

Bill

Mark Quayle · Jan 23, 2023

@Xeno.of.athen says:
The snow covered dung is a comment alleged to be made by Martin Luther concerning the state of righteousness of Christians before God. The idea is that the white snow is the covering of Christ's righteousness while the old sinful self (represented as dung) remains underneath.

Very interesting! I don't recall ever hearing such a thing attributed to Luther. Here is some more on the subject:

Luther's "Snow-Covered Dunghill" (Myth?)

Luther provides the analogy of man as a "dunghill" & Scripture refers to snow washing away our sins. If we put them together, we can arrive at a "saying."

www.patheos.com

BBAS 64 · Jan 23, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
@Xeno.of.athen says:
The snow covered dung is a comment alleged to be made by Martin Luther concerning the state of righteousness of Christians before God. The idea is that the white snow is the covering of Christ's righteousness while the old sinful self (represented as dung) remains underneath.

Very interesting! I don't recall ever hearing such a thing attributed to Luther. Here is some more on the subject:

Luther's "Snow-Covered Dunghill" (Myth?)

Luther provides the analogy of man as a "dunghill" & Scripture refers to snow washing away our sins. If we put them together, we can arrive at a "saying."

www.patheos.com

Good Day, Mark

There is no know source that attributes this to Luther. Though the Roman Catholics do parrot it around.

Snow-Covered Dung-Heap - Luther / Langland / Chrysostom?

It's often claimed (mostly by Roman Catholics) that Luther compared justification to a snow-covered dung-heap. None have to date (and this ...

turretinfan.blogspot.com

Fantastic Blog for all things Luther he used to post here. His documentation and sources are simply fantastic.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

As related to this topic:

Erasmus, Romans 3:28 and Faith Alone: "Vox sola, tot clamoribus lapidata hoc saeculo in Luthero, reverenter in Patribus auditur"

Martin Luther is often criticized for allegedly adding the word "alone" to his German translation of Romans 3:28. Ironically, it was a Roman...

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

In Him,

Bill

Mark Quayle · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist, are also necessary for salvation. This is in contrast to the doctrine of sola fide, or "faith alone," which teaches that faith is the only necessary element for salvation.

Scripture references that support the Catholic teaching on salvation include James 2:24, which states, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Additionally, Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats, teaches that salvation is based on the good works that a person has done.

In summary, Catholic Church teaches that faith, good works, and sacraments are all necessary for salvation, while sola fide only emphasizes the importance of faith alone.

Are good works and sacraments, which you say "are also necessary for salvation", not works? What do you mean by "necessary for salvation"? Be specific, as it seems to me a considerable dip into the unBiblical concept that works produce salvation. Please be specific —if possible, more specific than your quote of Catholic statements that Salvation is (sort of) by faith alone.

Mark Quayle · Jan 23, 2023

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, Mark

There is no know source that attributes this to Luther. Though the Roman Catholics do parrot it around.

Snow-Covered Dung-Heap - Luther / Langland / Chrysostom?

It's often claimed (mostly by Roman Catholics) that Luther compared justification to a snow-covered dung-heap. None have to date (and this ...

turretinfan.blogspot.com

Fantastic Blog for all things Luther he used to post here. His documentation and sources are simply fantastic.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

As related to this topic:

Erasmus, Romans 3:28 and Faith Alone: "Vox sola, tot clamoribus lapidata hoc saeculo in Luthero, reverenter in Patribus auditur"

Martin Luther is often criticized for allegedly adding the word "alone" to his German translation of Romans 3:28. Ironically, it was a Roman...

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

In Him,

Bill

Thanks very much, Bill.

Some of those references to 'snow-covered dungheap' having been written concerning hypocrisy, and not justification, could perhaps even be followed back to Christ, saying, "white-washed tombs"! Yet even that can be taken to extrapolate to the question of just how these hypocrites considered themselves justified. I can't help but wonder if some well-meaning apologist mentioned it in that vein.

(A comment, if I may, aside from the debate as to who said what: I love what Hodge says here, "From the nature of the case, if justification is by faith, it must be by faith alone.")

In love for God's own Truth, MQ

concretecamper · Jan 23, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
What makes you think she is referring to the Word of God as such? Or is this just a generic, "Why would 'one' refer to the Word of God as such."?

Because she posted it. It couldn't have been referring to me, so it had to be referring to her. It was either/or

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
So how are all the additions necessary to obtain salvation?

A false premise, such as the one quoted above, cannot fail to lead to false conclusions.

In the Catholic understanding, justification is the process by which God forgives a person's sins and makes them right with Him. This is done through faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. Justification is a one-time event, but it is also the beginning of a lifelong process of sanctification, or becoming more holy.

Sanctification is the ongoing process of growing in holiness and becoming more like Jesus Christ. This includes growing in virtue, living a moral life, and participating in the sacraments of the Church, particularly the Eucharist and Confession.

Salvation is the ultimate goal of the Christian life and it refers to the state of eternal life with God in heaven. It is the end result of the process of justification and sanctification and is a gift from God which is obtained through faith in Jesus Christ, living a life according to God's will, and participating in the sacraments of the Church. It is important to note that salvation is not earned by good works but a free gift of God's grace.

The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is open to all people through faith in Jesus Christ, and that good works, charity, and participation in the sacraments are necessary for the growth in holiness and for the attainment of eternal salvation.

concretecamper · Jan 23, 2023

Fine, I'll revise it, it really sounds much better :doh:

Some people identify more with dung (Luther's words) than with adopted Sons and daughters of God.

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Clare73 said:
justification (dikaiosis) is a forensic righteousness.

From a Catholic perspective, the idea that justification is a forensic righteousness, meaning that it is a legal declaration of righteousness rather than an actual righteousness, is not entirely accurate. The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a transformative process in which a person is made right with God through faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. This process involves the infusion of God's grace into the soul, which enables the person to live a life in accordance with God's will and to grow in holiness.

The Catholic Church also believes that justification is not only a one-time event, but also an ongoing process, and that this process of sanctification is necessary for salvation. Therefore, the idea that justification is only a legal declaration is not consistent with the Catholic understanding of justification as a transformative process that leads to salvation.

In addition, the Catholic Church also teaches that good works, charity, and participation in the sacraments are necessary for the growth in holiness and for the attainment of eternal salvation. Therefore, the claim that justification is only a forensic righteousness that is independent of good works is not in line with the Catholic understanding of justification and salvation.

In summary, while the Catholic Church acknowledges that the legal aspect of justification, the Catholic understanding of justification is a transformative process that involves the infusion of God's grace, the ongoing process of sanctification and the participation in the sacraments and good works.

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day,

Here is the crux for my leaving the Roman Catholic denomination.

They are incapable of clearly distinguishing between Justification ( a declaration about you) and Sanctification something that is done to you.

I never allow the process that I experience (Sanctification) uncut what I truly am (Justified).

In Him,

Bill

From a Catholic perspective, the idea that justification is a forensic righteousness, meaning that it is a legal declaration of righteousness rather than an actual righteousness, is not entirely accurate. The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a transformative process in which a person is made right with God through faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. This process involves the infusion of God's grace into the soul, which enables the person to live a life in accordance with God's will and to grow in holiness.

The Catholic Church also believes that justification is not only a one-time event, but also an ongoing process, and that this process of sanctification is necessary for salvation. Therefore, the idea that justification is only a legal declaration is not consistent with the Catholic understanding of justification as a transformative process that leads to salvation.

In addition, the Catholic Church also teaches that good works, charity, and participation in the sacraments are necessary for the growth in holiness and for the attainment of eternal salvation. Therefore, the claim that justification is only a forensic righteousness that is independent of good works is not in line with the Catholic understanding of justification and salvation.

In summary, while the Catholic Church acknowledges that the legal aspect of justification, the Catholic understanding of justification is a transformative process that involves the infusion of God's grace, the ongoing process of sanctification and the participation in the sacraments and good works.

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Mark Quayle said:
Are good works and sacraments, which you say "are also necessary for salvation", not works?

Good works are works, that ought to be rather clear from the use of "works" in good works, the sacraments are works of God rather than works of the recipient but the recipient needs to accept and receive them.

Valletta · Jan 23, 2023

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, Mark

There is no know source that attributes this to Luther. Though the Roman Catholics do parrot it around.

Snow-Covered Dung-Heap - Luther / Langland / Chrysostom?

It's often claimed (mostly by Roman Catholics) that Luther compared justification to a snow-covered dung-heap. None have to date (and this ...

turretinfan.blogspot.com

Fantastic Blog for all things Luther he used to post here. His documentation and sources are simply fantastic.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

As related to this topic:

Erasmus, Romans 3:28 and Faith Alone: "Vox sola, tot clamoribus lapidata hoc saeculo in Luthero, reverenter in Patribus auditur"

Martin Luther is often criticized for allegedly adding the word "alone" to his German translation of Romans 3:28. Ironically, it was a Roman...

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

In Him,

Bill

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day,

Here is the crux for my leaving the Roman Catholic denomination.

They are incapable of clearly distinguishing between Justification ( a declaration about you) and Sanctification something that is done to you.

I never allow the process that I experience (Sanctification) uncut what I truly am (Justified).

In Him,

Bill

That's an unusual reason to leave the Church. Most who leave lack a prayer life and a personal relationship with Jesus. How is it that you consider yourself informed on justification but even today are so ill informed about the Church Fathers? The information you posted about the Church Fathers is the type of misinformation posted on some of the hate websites. Do you realize how derogatory your adjectives and descriptions are in describing Catholics?

"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics “adore statues”; because they “put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God”; because they say “indulgence is a permission to commit sin”; because the Pope “is a Fascist”; because the “Church is the defender of Capitalism.” If the Church taught or believed any one of these things it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do. If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates…" Bishop Sheen, 1938

Clare73 · Jan 23, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
From a Catholic perspective, the idea that justification is a forensic righteousness, meaning that it is a legal declaration of righteousness rather than an actual righteousness, is not entirely accurate.

However, as I said before (post #64), forensic righteousness is the meaning of the word (dikaiosis) in the Greek in Ro 4:25, Ro 5:18,
while actual righteousness is the meaning of the word (dikaiosune) in the Greek in Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19.
No one has authority to alter the meaning of the God-breathed words of Scripture (2 Tim 3:16).

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Clare73 said:
However, as I said before (post #64), forensic righteousness is the meaning of the word (dikaiosis) in the Greek in Ro 4:25, Ro 5:18,
while actual righteousness is the meaning of the word (dikaiosune) in the Greek in Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19.
No one has authority to alter the meaning of the God-breathed words of Scripture (2 Tim 3:16).

Romans 6:16 teaches that obedience leads to righteousness and it the anthesis of sin which leads to death.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, although you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted. Freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your nature. For just as you presented the parts of your bodies as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness for lawlessness, so now present them as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. But what profit did you get then from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been freed from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit that you have leads to sanctification, and its end is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:15-23

Xeno.of.athens · Jan 23, 2023

Clare73
Agreed, Ro 6:16 is about actual righteousness (dikaiosune) of sanctification, not about forensic righteousness (dikaiosis) of justification in Ro 4:25, Ro 5:18.

In Romans 4:25, the Apostle Paul writes, "He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification." From a Catholic perspective, this passage is understood to refer to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection as the means by which humanity is justified, or made right, with God. This is in line with the Catholic understanding of salvation as a free gift from God, received through faith in Jesus Christ and His redemptive work on the cross. The Catholic Church teaches that through Jesus' death and resurrection, humanity is reconciled to God and given the gift of eternal life.

This passage is related to the concept of Atonement, the Christian doctrine that Jesus, by his death and resurrection, made satisfaction for the sins of humanity. This doctrine is rooted in the Bible, particularly in the Pauline letters, and it is developed by the Church Fathers and in the liturgical tradition of the Church.

This understanding is supported by other scriptural references such as John 3:16, which states "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life," and 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, which states "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures."

The Catholic Church teaches that justification, the act by which a person is made right with God, is a process that involves both grace and human cooperation. According to Catholic theology, justification is a work of God's grace that begins in baptism and continues throughout a person's life as they respond to God's call to holiness. This understanding of justification is rooted in scriptural references such as Romans 2:6, which states "For he will render to every man according to his works," and James 2:24, which states "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

In contrast, many Protestants believe that justification is a purely forensic transaction that occurs at the moment of faith and is based solely on the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. This understanding of justification is sometimes referred to as "forensic justification" or "justification by faith alone."

The Catholic Church refutes this teaching on the grounds that it is not supported by scripture and contradicts the biblical teaching on the role of good works in the process of justification. In the Catholic understanding, good works are seen as an essential aspect of the Christian life, and not just as a result of justification but also a means to grow in justification.

Scriptural references that support the Catholic understanding of justification include Matthew 25:31-46, where Jesus speaks about the Last Judgment and the criteria for eternal life, and Ephesians 2:8-10, which states "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

It's important to note that both Catholic and Protestant share the belief in the importance of faith in Jesus Christ as the foundation of justification, but differ in the understanding of the role of good works in the process of justification.

Mark Quayle · Jan 24, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
Romans 6:16 teaches that obedience leads to righteousness and it the anthesis of sin which leads to death.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, although you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted. Freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your nature. For just as you presented the parts of your bodies as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness for lawlessness, so now present them as slaves to righteousness for sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness. But what profit did you get then from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been freed from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit that you have leads to sanctification, and its end is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:15-23

Thanks, xeno. I intended to write this a 'comment' below your post, but it had more than 420 characters. So I include @Clare73 here, too.

Perhaps not so off-topic as it might seem, I think the translators' inserted "leading (to)" in vs. 16 can be misleading. I don't know, though; I mean, it could be true, but I don't see it in the Greek. It is not grammatically necessary, even contextually, I don't think. In its rawest sense, I understand εἰς (eis) to mean 'toward', or as some translations put it, "unto". It seems that there may be implied a stronger, or more intimate/immediate, relationship between sin and death, and between obedience and righteousness, than is implied by "leading to".

This may have implications even into the meaning of 'sin', and particularly, with places such as 1 John 5:16's "There is a sin unto death —I don't say you should pray concerning that." Conversely, also, it may have a lot to do with a good understanding of the nature of obedience, and its relationship with life, not to mention the relationship of death vs righteousness.

Sola Fide

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Blood-bought

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Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

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Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Member of His Church

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Member of His Church

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

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