Department Of Justice Stonewalls Republicans On Investigation

Valletta

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The Republican representative sent his request last week.

“We are conducting oversight of the Justice Department’s actions with respect to former Vice President Biden’s mishandling of classified documents, including the apparently unauthorized possession of classified material at a Washington, D.C., private office and in the garage of his Wilmington, Delaware, residence,” he and Rep. Mike Johnson said in a letter to Garland.

“On January 12, 2023, you appointed Robert Hur as Special Counsel to investigate these matters,” they said. “The circumstances of this appointment raise fundamental oversight questions that the Committee routinely examines. We expect your complete cooperation with our inquiry.”
 

JosephZ

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“Consistent with longstanding policy and practice, any oversight requests must be weighed against the Department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work... Longstanding Department policy prevents us from confirming or denying the existence of pending investigations in response to congressional requests or providing non-public information about our investigations.”

So the DOJ is following standard procedure. What's the big deal?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Are you talking about the 6 years that former Pres. Trump has been "stonewalling" various investigations?
Even if that were true, it certainly does not excuse or justify the actions of the Biden bunch and the swamp that wants to ignore it or even justify it.
 
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SimplyMe

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what was the topic again, oh yes, it was not Trump now was it?

Even if that were true, it certainly does not excuse or justify the actions of the Biden bunch and the swamp that wants to ignore it or even justify it.
Just pointing out the double standard. The same people who are criticizing the DoJ (not even Biden) because they are following longstanding procedure (not one established under Biden) to not comment on ongoing investigations are the same ones that applauded Trump for refusing to cooperate in any of the various investigations against him, starting with the Mueller investigation (at least as President, he'd been stonewalling before he was President).

Tell me something, would you trade a conviction against Biden for the full cooperation of the DoJ, that prevents an indictment or conviction? It is often things like that that end up being the trade off, when information is released on ongoing investigations. Though, to be fair, the DoJ did say, “Consistent with longstanding policy and practice, any oversight requests must be weighed against the Department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work," so they will cooperate to the point it starts to jeopardize ongoing investigations.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Just pointing out the double standard. The same people who are criticizing the DoJ (not even Biden) because they are following longstanding procedure (not one established under Biden) to not comment on ongoing investigations are the same ones that applauded Trump for refusing to cooperate in any of the various investigations against him, starting with the Mueller investigation (at least as President, he'd been stonewalling before he was President).

Tell me something, would you trade a conviction against Biden for the full cooperation of the DoJ, that prevents an indictment or conviction? It is often things like that that end up being the trade off, when information is released on ongoing investigations. Though, to be fair, the DoJ did say, “Consistent with longstanding policy and practice, any oversight requests must be weighed against the Department’s interests in protecting the integrity of its work," so they will cooperate to the point it starts to jeopardize ongoing investigations.
It is the right of the accused to NOT cooperate with law enforcement. Any good lawyer will tell his client to first shut up. Anything you say can and will be used against you. The courts have ruled again and again that refusal to cooperate with your own prosecution cannot be used as evidence of your guilt. Convictions have been overturned because of this. Very often prosecutors will ignore the facts that point toward innocence and magnify the lies that suggest guilt. It is just what they do. It is in the job description. That is why you do not help them do it. When those same prosecutors are motivated by political and personal bias, we see grave injustice. The swamp DOJ and FBI are completely biased against Trump and in favor of Biden. A person would have to be blind not to see this. Why no FBI invasion of Biden's residences after he held on to these document for 6 years? Why is his staff and lawyers allowed to filter through these documents (evidence) before the investigators? Some of this stuff is top secret and above. Did these lawyers and WH staff members have the appropriate clearance to even search? I think not. How do we know these individuals handled what they found correctly? What got burned in the trash to hide it? Why were some "items" is his garage??? Why no logs of the people coming and going? If there were logs, what happened to them? At what point is any sane person going to draw back and say "something fishy is going on here." It is yet another case of democrats and the media saying "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil," and the trying to divert attention by bringing up Trump. As if what Trump did has any bearing on the legality of what Biden did and is still doing.
In the CF rules, we call it "keep on topic." Much of what we are hearing is just diversion and distraction.
 
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SimplyMe

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It is the right of the accused to NOT cooperate with law enforcement. Any good lawyer will tell his client to first shut up. Anything you say can and will be used against you. The courts have ruled again and again that refusal to cooperate with your own prosecution cannot be used as evidence of your guilt. Convictions have been overturned because of this. Very often prosecutors will ignore the facts that point toward innocence and magnify the lies that suggest guilt. It is just what they do. It is in the job description. That is why you do not help them do it.
Is it the right of the accused to refuse his staffers to testify before Congress or to tell them not to cooperate with law enforcement? There are reasons the Mueller report found that Pres. Trump was likely guilty of obstruction (something you don't get charged with for just "not cooperating with law enforcement").
When those same prosecutors are motivated by political and personal bias, we see grave injustice. The swamp DOJ and FBI are completely biased against Trump and in favor of Biden. A person would have to be blind not to see this.

So we keep seeing claimed but no actual evidence for.

Why no FBI invasion of Biden's residences after he held on to these document for 6 years?

The simple answer is that Biden, as VP, did not fall under the Presidential Records Act, so NARA wasn't looking for documents from him. In Trump's case, he did fall under the Presidential Records Act and NARA realized there were documents (such as the letters between Trump and Kim Jong-un, that had not been returned to them. My best guess on the documents Biden had, in many cases they were "copies" of Presidential documents. Since Obama complied with the Presidential Records Act and turned all his documents into NARA, the fact that Biden had copies went unnoticed. OTOH, another key difference here is, when they were discovered, they appear to have been immediately turned over -- not kept and hidden.
Why is his staff and lawyers allowed to filter through these documents (evidence) before the investigators?

The same reason Trump's lawyers were. You do realize that NARA worked with Trump/his lawyers for over a year trying to get all the documents back? They negotiated and got 12 boxes back but NARA found they still did not have all the documents. They turned to the DoJ for help (as the Presidential Record Act requires) and the DoJ, after working with Trump, felt they had to go and get a subpeona to get documents from Trump. At this point, another dozen boxes of documents were turned over and the lawyers (allegedly based on Trump's statements to his lawyers) stated, under oath, that all documents had been returned.

The DoJ found out, through an informant, that there were still Classified documents at Mar-A-Lago -- and only then did the DoJ get a search warrant. It is worth noting that more boxes of documents were taken after the search of Mar-A-Lago than what Trump had previously turned over at the requests of NARA and the DoJ, which included 5 times more Classified documents (just in that search) than it is stated Biden has found and turned over.

It is further worth noting that even more Classified documents have been found (though this time Trump's lawyers immediately turned the documents into NARA), so perhaps (based on your claims of Biden) we should have the FBI "raid" all of Trump's properties and storage units to see what other classified documents he is hiding, particularly since Trump's lawyers previously swore to the DoJ that all documents had been turned in. By contrast, Biden has allowed the FBI to come in and search to ensure that all documents are actually recovered.

And before someone brings up the nugget about "Biden didn't have the power to declassify," realize that the Special Master -- the person set up by the Trump appointed judge to protect Trump's rights -- determined that all the Trump classified documents were never declassified.
Some of this stuff is top secret and above. Did these lawyers and WH staff members have the appropriate clearance to even search? I think not. How do we know these individuals handled what they found correctly? What got burned in the trash to hide it? Why were some "items" is his garage???

Why were some of Trump's documents in a storage unit (apparently just a standard commercial storage unit with no special security), why were some found in his desk, and why where others found in areas routinely visited by staff (and possibly guests) of Mar-A-Lago despite the "lock" on the door?

OTOH, I'm on record as saying we should toughen Classified records rules for political appointees and those elected to high government office -- since they don't have to abide by the same rules as "normal people" (as evidenced by Trump, Biden, and Clinton). Unfortunately, the fact they had these records will be "excused" -- Trump is only in trouble for trying to "keep" the documents and not turning them over as a court order required (prior to the Search Warrant); and the fact some were found in Trump's desk clearly makes it appear Trump knew he had them and had defied the court order.
Why no logs of the people coming and going? If there were logs, what happened to them?

Because Biden didn't have Secret Service protection for a year or more? Seriously, do you keep a log of anyone who visits your personal home or private office?
At what point is any sane person going to draw back and say "something fishy is going on here." It is yet another case of democrats and the media saying "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil," and the trying to divert attention by bringing up Trump. As if what Trump did has any bearing on the legality of what Biden did and is still doing.
In the CF rules, we call it "keep on topic." Much of what we are hearing is just diversion and distraction.
Yes, which is why a Special Prosecutor was appointed. The Special Prosecutor was a Trump-appointee to the DoJ that, after Trump left office, returned to private practice; so it isn't someone that will be friendly to Biden. Yes, there is a lot of "diversion and distraction," particularly trying to make claims against Biden while trying to pretend these same people didn't say the exact opposite when similar issues arose under Trump.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Is it the right of the accused to refuse his staffers to testify before Congress or to tell them not to cooperate with law enforcement? There are reasons the Mueller report found that Pres. Trump was likely guilty of obstruction (something you don't get charged with for just "not cooperating with law enforcement").


So we keep seeing claimed but no actual evidence for.



The simple answer is that Biden, as VP, did not fall under the Presidential Records Act, so NARA wasn't looking for documents from him. In Trump's case, he did fall under the Presidential Records Act and NARA realized there were documents (such as the letters between Trump and Kim Jong-un, that had not been returned to them. My best guess on the documents Biden had, in many cases they were "copies" of Presidential documents. Since Obama complied with the Presidential Records Act and turned all his documents into NARA, the fact that Biden had copies went unnoticed. OTOH, another key difference here is, when they were discovered, they appear to have been immediately turned over -- not kept and hidden.


The same reason Trump's lawyers were. You do realize that NARA worked with Trump/his lawyers for over a year trying to get all the documents back? They negotiated and got 12 boxes back but NARA found they still did not have all the documents. They turned to the DoJ for help (as the Presidential Record Act requires) and the DoJ, after working with Trump, felt they had to go and get a subpeona to get documents from Trump. At this point, another dozen boxes of documents were turned over and the lawyers (allegedly based on Trump's statements to his lawyers) stated, under oath, that all documents had been returned.

The DoJ found out, through an informant, that there were still Classified documents at Mar-A-Lago -- and only then did the DoJ get a search warrant. It is worth noting that more boxes of documents were taken after the search of Mar-A-Lago than what Trump had previously turned over at the requests of NARA and the DoJ, which included 5 times more Classified documents (just in that search) than it is stated Biden has found and turned over.

It is further worth noting that even more Classified documents have been found (though this time Trump's lawyers immediately turned the documents into NARA), so perhaps (based on your claims of Biden) we should have the FBI "raid" all of Trump's properties and storage units to see what other classified documents he is hiding, particularly since Trump's lawyers previously swore to the DoJ that all documents had been turned in. By contrast, Biden has allowed the FBI to come in and search to ensure that all documents are actually recovered.

And before someone brings up the nugget about "Biden didn't have the power to declassify," realize that the Special Master -- the person set up by the Trump appointed judge to protect Trump's rights -- determined that all the Trump classified documents were never declassified.


Why were some of Trump's documents in a storage unit (apparently just a standard commercial storage unit with no special security), why were some found in his desk, and why where others found in areas routinely visited by staff (and possibly guests) of Mar-A-Lago despite the "lock" on the door?

OTOH, I'm on record as saying we should toughen Classified records rules for political appointees and those elected to high government office -- since they don't have to abide by the same rules as "normal people" (as evidenced by Trump, Biden, and Clinton). Unfortunately, the fact they had these records will be "excused" -- Trump is only in trouble for trying to "keep" the documents and not turning them over as a court order required (prior to the Search Warrant); and the fact some were found in Trump's desk clearly makes it appear Trump knew he had them and had defied the court order.


Because Biden didn't have Secret Service protection for a year or more? Seriously, do you keep a log of anyone who visits your personal home or private office?

Yes, which is why a Special Prosecutor was appointed. The Special Prosecutor was a Trump-appointee to the DoJ that, after Trump left office, returned to private practice; so it isn't someone that will be friendly to Biden. Yes, there is a lot of "diversion and distraction," particularly trying to make claims against Biden while trying to pretend these same people didn't say the exact opposite when similar issues arose under Trump.
More distractions. This is not about Trump. This is about Biden, a sitting president.
 
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SimplyMe

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More distractions. This is not about Trump. This is about Biden, a sitting president.
So why did you try to muddy the issue with Trump, saying they weren't treated equally? You made it about Trump but the facts do not support your claims.
 
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