Is The Matrix Literally The Devil?? The World??

timewerx · Dec 17, 2022

Here's a quote by Morpheus about the Matrix:

The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Now, I replace 'Matrix' with 'Devil' and 'it' with 'him':

The Devil is everywhere. He is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see him when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel him when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. He is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

The Matrix could also simply be The World.

Now we reference applicable Bible verses:

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

1 John 2:15-16
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.

Is the World the Devil? The Matrix? Was Morpheus' character based upon St. John?

John 15:18-19
If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.…

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

Matthew 10:36
For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;…

Luke 6:22;26
Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Would it be a coincidence these verses are not very popular preaching material??

The Liturgist · Dec 17, 2022

timewerx said:
Here's a quote by Morpheus about the Matrix:

The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Now, I replace 'Matrix' with 'Devil' and 'it' with 'him':

The Devil is everywhere. He is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see him when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel him when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. He is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

The Matrix could also simply be The World.

Now we reference applicable Bible verses:

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

1 John 2:15-16
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.

Is the World the Devil? The Matrix? Was Morpheus' character based upon St. John?

John 15:18-19
If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.…

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

Matthew 10:36
For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;…

Luke 6:22;26
Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Would it be a coincidence these verses are not very popular preaching material??

Well the Matrix is very similar to Gnostic Christianity, in which they say we live in an evil world created by an incompetent demiurge. However, Orthodox Christianity states that God’s creation is good, but it is our sinful acts that create evil.

timewerx · Dec 18, 2022

The Liturgist said:
Well the Matrix is very similar to Gnostic Christianity, in which they say we live in an evil world created by an incompetent demiurge. However, Orthodox Christianity states that God’s creation is good, but it is our sinful acts that create evil.

1 John in the Bible says that our world is evil. Should we ignore 1 John?

God's creation is good BUT I don't think that's the "world" St. John is referring to.

St. John associated "world" with 'desires of the flesh and eyes' and the 'pride of life'. I believe these are things like money, power, influence, reputation, possessions, sexual desires, vanity, worldly achievements, career.

The world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth as the character Morpheus has eloquently put.

If you think the world's morality is going down the drain these recent times. Just look at the internet and see everyone is obsessing about worldliness, even Christians flaunting all the worldly things they're doing all the big spending they have just done. They are no longer in the light or never been. Blinded completely by the world, hopelessly beyond saving no matter how hard you try to win them.

RDKirk · Dec 27, 2022

timewerx said:
1 John in the Bible says that our world is evil. Should we ignore 1 John?

God's creation is good BUT I don't think that's the "world" St. John is referring to.

St. John associated "world" with 'desires of the flesh and eyes' and the 'pride of life'. I believe these are things like money, power, influence, reputation, possessions, sexual desires, vanity, worldly achievements, career.

The world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth as the character Morpheus has eloquently put.

If you think the world's morality is going down the drain these recent times. Just look at the internet and see everyone is obsessing about worldliness, even Christians flaunting all the worldly things they're doing all the big spending they have just done. They are no longer in the light or never been. Blinded completely by the world, hopelessly beyond saving no matter how hard you try to win them.

The distinction John makes is between the political-economic entities created by man and the planet itself.

The planet was created good, but has been suffering since Adam stepped down from his position as steward of the planet...it's been coasting downward ever since. I believe that God intended Adam's stewardship (that is, Adam and his descendants to this day) to have been the entire universe, not just this single planet.

But the political-economic entities created by man--city-states, nations, corporations, and such--have always been under the control of Satan.

I do think the original Matrix movie had several useful analogies to Christian apologetics. My wife and I discussed them on the way home from the very first time seeing the movie in the theater.

That's why Satan did not attempt to try Jesus by showing Him the mountains, the rivers, the oceans, and saying, "I can give you all this." Instead, Satan displayed all the "kingdoms of the world"--the political-economic entities--and claimed them as his own. Jesus did not dispute that because it's true.

timewerx · Jan 1, 2023

RDKirk said:
The distinction John makes is between the political-economic entities created by man and the planet itself.

The planet was created good, but has been suffering since Adam stepped down from his position as steward of the planet...it's been coasting downward ever since. I believe that God intended Adam's stewardship (that is, Adam and his descendants to this day) to have been the entire universe, not just this single planet.

But the political-economic entities created by man--city-states, nations, corporations, and such--have always been under the control of Satan.

I do think the original Matrix movie had several useful analogies to Christian apologetics. My wife and I discussed them on the way home from the very first time seeing the movie in the theater.

That's why Satan did not attempt to try Jesus by showing Him the mountains, the rivers, the oceans, and saying, "I can give you all this." Instead, Satan displayed all the "kingdoms of the world"--the political-economic entities--and claimed them as his own. Jesus did not dispute that because it's true.

I believe you. I'm not sure if you read the Book of Enoch but the 'Garden of Eden' in the book is implied to be a distinct region in space. A vast region of space with countless stars. Many people have been arguing ever since if the accounts of creation in Genesis is literal or not and more like leaning towards the 'not'.

And the Bible's general description of 'Earth' would have been less contradictory to reality if we interpret the subject as a galaxy, not a planet. Since a galaxy is flat and has distinct sides or 'ends' or even quadrants likes North, South, East, West. Our galaxy also has huge abundance of the material we call 'earth' or soil - one of the solid remains of dead stars. To call our galaxy 'Earth' instead of Milky Way would have been a more fitting name due to the abundance of earth, not the abundance of milk. There's infinitely more earth/soil in our galaxy than milk.

In the Book of Enoch, Enoch was describing a galaxy when he described Earth when an angel flew him far and away from Earth. In his primitive vocabulary of course. But his description of the giant black hole at the center was exquisitely detailed and precise to this day that only the most powerful telescopes can distinguish.

He also mentioned that Adam wasn't originally flesh and blood. He was like one of the stars of heaven. Right there in space. Angels were often referred to as stars in the Bible. And 'man' is supposed to be just a little lower than the angels. That means a glowing space-dwelling creation just like the stars and just how Enoch described how Adam was.

So what 'changed' Adam into flesh and blood? The fruit from the 'Tree of Knowledge'. I think this is the equivalent of the 'blue pill' in the Matrix where you wake up from a 'dream' in a world were everything is 'normal', everyone acting the same, held up in a prison they don't even realize.

It's ironic that today, only rich people and those hopelessly buried in the system that gets into space. The very people blinded from the truth by material wealth.

When Apostle Paul said we are fighting against authorities in high places makes you think our enemies may not be entirely spirits but also includes the people who run this world. It was possible that Paul was being cryptic, else their teachings would have been flagged by the Romans as seditious and Christianity destroyed far too soon.

Jesus referred to worldly wealth as 'unrighteous wealth'. It didn't mattered if you made money in the most righteous means possible. Your income would always be coming from somewhere and ultimately, the very source was of ill-intent, evil, typically through exploitation of the weak and vulnerable becoming the source of cheap labor or even slaves (in the past) and of course, stealing lands from the weak. Many big companies today justify the humane working conditions of their factories in Cambodia or somewhere. But would they ever trade lives with those people? The answer is a strong NO. To trade lives with those people would be the equivalent of a prison sentence. Sadly, many of our modern day affordable luxuries and comfort rests on the backs of those poor people. If those workers are actually being compensated fairly as Jesus would have wanted, you would have less material 'prosperity'. Material prosperity is always at the cost of something and in this evil world, it is costing the poor. So when Jesus told the rich guy to give away his possessions to the poor. It's more likely he isn't just referring to that rich guy but more likely to a lot of people, not just the rich. Of course, it doesn't mean we literally give away everything, absolutely nothing is left to us. But still, a very substantial amount like Zacchaeus example.

It's so Ironic and true Morpheus said that the Matrix is present even in the Church. Because in the church, we are so proud of material prosperity we even devote time to it in personal testimonies. How is it possible to be proud of something the entire world uses as tool of oppression against the children of God? Unless you have become the enemy?

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2023

timewerx said:
1 John in the Bible says that our world is evil. Should we ignore 1 John?

No, but St. John also was not a Gnostic, and I resent the implication that because I found some aspects of your post problematic that I want us to ignore the epistle of the Beloved Disciple.

God's creation is good BUT I don't think that's the "world" St. John is referring to.

Clearly, St. John is talking about the world of human interactions, the socioeconomic world, one which we as Christians can separate ourselves from, as opposed to the created world made by God.

St. John associated "world" with 'desires of the flesh and eyes' and the 'pride of life'. I believe these are things like money, power, influence, reputation, possessions, sexual desires, vanity, worldly achievements, career.

Indeed, this is widely agreed upon.

The world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth as the character Morpheus has eloquently put.

The problem with quoting Morpheus is a lingering Gnostic influence, in that basically he possesses secret salvific knowledge which he has and which others do not, and one of the principle errors of Gnosticism is the idea of reducing Christianity to secret doctrines which much be intellectually understood.

Also the tragic fact is that the Wachowskis have themselves fallen victim to unnatural sexual desires, causing them to depart from their God-given anatomy.

If you think the world's morality is going down the drain these recent times. Just look at the internet and see everyone is obsessing about worldliness, even Christians flaunting all the worldly things they're doing all the big spending they have just done. They are no longer in the light or never been. Blinded completely by the world, hopelessly beyond saving no matter how hard you try to win them.

Your core insight is good, the only problem is the extent to which the Matrix reflects a different approach to Christianity rooted in Gnosticism, postmodernism and deconstructionism. I mean, lest we forget, the Wachowskis made all of the principle cast members of the Matrix read Simulation et Simulacra.

renniks · Jan 5, 2023

I saw it as the physical world we see not being the " real" reality but the Spiritual reality behind what we see being more real than the illusion that everything is fine. The war behind the scenes that we rarely see, in other words. Sure, the evil forces are a big part of that. We see health and wealth and prosperity, without often seeing the evil that men often do gain those things. To swallow the pill is to begin to realize you were born into a battle most never notice.

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2023

timewerx said:
He also mentioned that Adam wasn't originally flesh and blood. He was like one of the stars of heaven. Right there in space. Angels were often referred to as stars in the Bible. And 'man' is supposed to be just a little lower than the angels. That means a glowing space-dwelling creation just like the stars and just how Enoch described how Adam was.

So what 'changed' Adam into flesh and blood? The fruit from the 'Tree of Knowledge'. I think this is the equivalent of the 'blue pill' in the Matrix where you wake up from a 'dream' in a world were everything is 'normal', everyone acting the same, held up in a prison they don't even realize.

The problem with this is that in using a literal-historical Antiochene hermeneutic on a book, 1 Enoch, that has always been read using Alexandrian typological-prophetic technique and what you are writing suffers from Gnostic-Docetic problems as a result.

For example, the flesh and blood of Adam have been redeemed and glorified by Jesus Christ. Through resurrection in Christ Jesus, the New Adam, we can ascend to a higher existence than Adam.

Might I suggest that rather than using as a source the escapist, Gnostic-influenced postmodernism of the Matrix, which is fine as entertainment (I enjoy it greatly as a science fiction film), you look at the lives of Christians who actually did something like “taking the red pill” by choosing to live outside the world. Specifically I would suggest The Sayings of the Desert Fathers and the Life of St. Anthony written by St. Athanasius of Alexandria. Also, On the Prayer of Jesus, and The Arena, both by St. Ignatius Brianchaninov.

RDKirk · Jan 5, 2023

renniks said:
I saw it as the physical world we see not being the " real" reality but the Spiritual reality behind what we see being more real than the illusion that everything is fine. The war behind the scenes that we rarely see, in other words. Sure, the evil forces are a big part of that. We see health and wealth and prosperity, without often seeing the evil that men often do gain those things. To swallow the pill is to begin to realize you were born into a battle most never notice.

That only works for the original movie, though. I thought the "born again" sequence of Neo awakening from the Matrix and being flushed down a "birth canal" into reality was interesting.

The Liturgist · Jan 5, 2023

RDKirk said:
That only works for the original movie, though. I thought the "born again" sequence of Neo awakening from the Matrix and being flushed down a "birth canal" into reality was interesting.

Indeed, it was classic science fiction, particularly the first film and a few scenes from the second, and fewer still from the more recent films. I myself enjoyed the Architect from the Matrix Reloaded, but he was also a classically demiurgic figure, which furthers the Gnostic aspect to the story.

That said I did appreciate the Christian content in the Matrix, which is more substantial and feels more respectful than how Christianity or religion are usually treated in science fiction. It just happens to be a form of Christianity which is not doctrinally orthodox, as it were.

renniks · Jan 5, 2023

RDKirk said:
That only works for the original movie, though. I thought the "born again" sequence of Neo awakening from the Matrix and being flushed down a "birth canal" into reality was interesting.

yeah, I never watched the others.

Aaron112 · Jan 5, 2023

timewerx said:
and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

timewerx said:
these verses are not very popular

Almost everyone is indicted thereby,

is that likewise like the days of Noah, when everyone except eight , Noah and Noah's family, were lost and destroyed ?

Aaron112 · Jan 5, 2023

timewerx said:
1 John in the Bible says that our world is evil.

Don't forget Galatians, that all society is pernicious/ death - dealing.
Or Ephesians, that everyone , including us once, is under the power/influence/control of the prince of the power of the air/the devil.
Or Revelation, that all the world population remaining refuses to stop worshing/serving/ demons ?

stevevw · Jan 6, 2023

timewerx said:
Here's a quote by Morpheus about the Matrix:

The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Now, I replace 'Matrix' with 'Devil' and 'it' with 'him':

The Devil is everywhere. He is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see him when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel him when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. He is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

The Matrix could also simply be The World.

Now we reference applicable Bible verses:

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

1 John 2:15-16
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.

Is the World the Devil? The Matrix? Was Morpheus' character based upon St. John?

John 15:18-19
If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.…

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

Matthew 10:36
For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;…

Luke 6:22;26
Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Would it be a coincidence these verses are not very popular preaching material??

I think this relates well to

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

But also also think Satan only thinks he owns the world (matrix) when really God does and has only allowed Satan his time before Christ will establish Gods Kingdom.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities all things have been created through Him and for Him.

I think the objective world is the matrix. Its a delusion we have created like a interface of a deeper reality which is the source code, our mind and consciousness. Of something more transcendent beyond the objective world which originates in the 'Word' that John speaks about in his Gospel.

The Liturgist · Jan 6, 2023

stevevw said:
I think the objective world is the matrix. Its a delusion we have created like a interface of a deeper reality which is the source code, our mind and consciousness. Of something more transcendent beyond the objective world which originates in the 'Word' that John speaks about in his Gospel.

Firstly, the Word that St. John speaks about in John 1:1-18 is Jesus Christ; John 1 describes how the Only Begotten Son and Word of God became incarnate for our salvation. This is why John 1:1-14 is traditionally read on Christmas Day in the Western Protestant and Catholic churches, and John 1:1-17 on Pascha (Easter Sunday) in the Eastern churches.

Secondly, Scripture makes it clear the objective world is real, and was created by God the Father by the Word, His Son, and is good.

The rejection of this doctrine is per se Gnosticism.

Ironhorse · Jan 6, 2023

No. Don't get distracted. Sure, some similarities may exist, and I've seen it used in youth group talks, but I've never seen the connection personally.

I wouldn't go looking for messages in the Matrix given it's immorality in places. I also don't think any Christian message was intended to be put in the movie and that can be measured by some of the music and the life style of the writers and directors.

Ironhorse · Jan 6, 2023

... and the violence.

RDKirk · Jan 6, 2023

Ironhorse said:
No. Don't get distracted. Sure, some similarities may exist, and I've seen it used in youth group talks, but I've never seen the connection personally.

I wouldn't go looking for messages in the Matrix given it's immorality in places. I also don't think any Christian message was intended to be put in the movie and that can be measured by some of the music and the life style of the writers and directors.

No, it wasn't intended. They were going for a general "spirituality" mishmash that included several religious concepts, but it does have some useful examples. A lot of people will have seen The Matrix, so it can be helpful to point out an "it's like that scene" examples in discussion.

timewerx · Jan 7, 2023

RDKirk said:
"I can give you all this." Instead, Satan displayed all the "kingdoms of the world"--the political-economic entities--and claimed them as his own. Jesus did not dispute that because it's true.

It sometimes makes you wonder what 'deity' Christians really serve? If you read the New Testament carefully, the things that Jesus was offering was spiritual insights and supernatural gifts. These are the things Jesus referred to as "life" or "abundance" which has nothing to do with material blessings ("The flesh counts for nothing" - John 6:63).

And in Hebrew 11, the last verses, we read that many of the Lord's followers will face many hardships, including poverty until they die.

Satan on the other hand, he clearly stated he offers material rewards.

YahuahSaves · Jan 7, 2023

timewerx said:
He also mentioned that Adam wasn't originally flesh and blood. He was like one of the stars of heaven. Right there in space. Angels were often referred to as stars in the Bible. And 'man' is supposed to be just a little lower than the angels. That means a glowing space-dwelling creation just like the stars and just how Enoch described how Adam was.

Makes me think of this passage:

Luke 20:34-36

34 Jesus replied, “Marriage is for people here on earth. 35 But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 36 And they will never die again. In this respect they will be like angels. They are children of God and children of the resurrection.

Is The Matrix Literally The Devil?? The World??

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