We are not saved by our works but...

Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
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A true faith will always have repentance and works. This is stated in scripture over and over again but I'm only going to give one example due to time and length of the OP. In John 15 for example Jesus shows a beautiful illustration in how true faith works.

In John 15:2 Jesus says:

"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit."

John 15:4

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

In John 15:6 Jesus again warns that those who do not bear fruit will be tossed into the fire and burned.

In John 15:8 Jesus says that the Father's will is that the Christian will bear much fruit and prove to him and to the world that we are his true disciples. When we Christians bear fruit God prunes and takes care of it (See John 15:1)


Now we turn to the Book of Ephesians.


In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."


This proves that we are not saved by works as does Romans 4:5 but in the very next verse Paul teaches where our works come from and what they're for.

Ephesians 2:10 says "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So if you call yourself a Christian and you don't bear fruit that can be problematic and I would question whether or not your faith is genuine as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).
 

Blade

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Hi that is not what John 15:4 was saying. Branches when they don't have much fruit are pruned then lifted up so they get more light. They still debate as to just who Christ was talking about in verse 6. Some believe this is the last judgement. There is so much more to this. Its not you better show some fruit or He will cut you off and (forgive me Father) toss you in the fire. We see every day all those that do not abide in Christ. I have never had any fear (which is not of God) of being cut off. Not long ago He showed me this tiny tree so beautiful. It was dark yet light brown and I have never seen a tree with so many branches. Be put it down between me and this Jewish person. Oh at that time I was watching Jewish believers coming to Christ and was crying like a baby but they kept saying how Christians had their God. That really sad but really got to me.

So I just wanted to hear Him say He loved me just as much. I know I know.. So when He put that tree between us said "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Took me about a year to figure out what was "originally of the vine". He never said the words I love you just as much. Oh look how He answered it. No one can tell a grafted in branch vs one that is originally of the vine. So again there is so much more to this and its not just produce fruit or your cut off and burned. Some branches are "lifted up"
 
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Clare73

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A true faith will always have repentance and works. This is stated in scripture over and over again but I'm only going to give one example due to time and length of the OP. In John 15 for example Jesus shows a beautiful illustration in how true faith works.

In John 15:2 Jesus says:

"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit."

John 15:4

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

In John 15:6 Jesus again warns that those who do not bear fruit will be tossed into the fire and burned.

In John 15:8 Jesus says that the Father's will is that the Christian will bear much fruit and prove to him and to the world that we are his true disciples. When we Christians bear fruit God prunes and takes care of it (See John 15:1)


Now we turn to the Book of Ephesians.


In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."


This proves that we are not saved by works as does Romans 4:5 but in the very next verse Paul teaches where our works come from and what they're for.

Ephesians 2:10 says "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So if you call yourself a Christian and you don't bear fruit that can be problematic and I would question whether or not your faith is genuine as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).
Work are necessary for genuine faith, which saves.

But the necessary works of the genuine faith which saves are not the saving agent, only the faith of those works is the saving agent.
Salvation is the Lord's! (Rev 7:10). . .his and his alone!
There must be absolutely nothing about which we could possibly boast (Ro 3:27, Ro 4:2, 1Co 1:29, Eph 2:9)
 
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Neostarwcc

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.
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Hi that is not what John 15:4 was saying. Branches when they don't have much fruit are pruned then lifted up so they get more light. They still debate as to just who Christ was talking about in verse 6. Some believe this is the last judgement. There is so much more to this. Its not you better show some fruit or He will cut you off and (forgive me Father) toss you in the fire. We see every day all those that do not abide in Christ. I have never had any fear (which is not of God) of being cut off. Not long ago He showed me this tiny tree so beautiful. It was dark yet light brown and I have never seen a tree with so many branches. Be put it down between me and this Jewish person. Oh at that time I was watching Jewish believers coming to Christ and was crying like a baby but they kept saying how Christians had their God. That really sad but really got to me.

So I just wanted to hear Him say He loved me just as much. I know I know.. So when He put that tree between us said "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Took me about a year to figure out what was "originally of the vine". He never said the words I love you just as much. Oh look how He answered it. No one can tell a grafted in branch vs one that is originally of the vine. So again there is so much more to this and its not just produce fruit or your cut off and burned. Some branches are "lifted up"

Small question. Where in John 15:4 does Jesus say that brances that don't have much fruit are pruned then lifted up so they get more light?
 
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Clare73

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I see faith and works rather simply in that we are saved by grace through faith first, with works being the fruit.
I would have to agree, unless it is referring to Jews who were already doing good works.
But Gentiles wouldn't have any good works to bring to their conversion to faith.
 
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BobRyan

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A true faith will always have repentance and works. This is stated in scripture over and over again but I'm only going to give one example due to time and length of the OP. In John 15 for example Jesus shows a beautiful illustration in how true faith works.

In John 15:2 Jesus says:

"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit."

John 15:4

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

In John 15:6 Jesus again warns that those who do not bear fruit will be tossed into the fire and burned.

In John 15:8 Jesus says that the Father's will is that the Christian will bear much fruit and prove to him and to the world that we are his true disciples. When we Christians bear fruit God prunes and takes care of it (See John 15:1)


Now we turn to the Book of Ephesians.


In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."


This proves that we are not saved by works as does Romans 4:5 but in the very next verse Paul teaches where our works come from and what they're for.

Ephesians 2:10 says "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So if you call yourself a Christian and you don't bear fruit that can be problematic and I would question whether or not your faith is genuine as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).

As noted above --
Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says " For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
 
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BobRyan

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So if you call yourself a Christian and you don't bear fruit that can be problematic and I would question whether or not your faith is genuine as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).
James 2:
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever follows His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked.

Rom 2:13-16 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified.... on the day when according to my GOSPEL - God will judge"

James 2:
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

While James 2:24 and Rom 2:13 are in perfect agreement - they are talking about "Justification" in a different context than the one that we have in Rom 5:1 "having BEEN justified by faith we HAVE peace with God"

Rom 5:1 is talking about justification past - where a lost person becomes a saved person

But James 2:24 and Rom 2:13-16 is talking about justification in a court of law - in God's court of Law (Dan 7:8-10) - a future justification where as Christ said in Matt 7 - "you shall know them by their fruits" -- good fruit comes from a good tree. It does not come from a bad tree that then turns into a good tree and realize it can produce good fruit.
 
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Soyeong

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I see faith and works rather simply in that we are saved by grace through faith first, with works being the fruit.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so salvation is not the fruit of good works and good works and not the fruit of salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to do good works is intrinsically the content of His gift of saving us from not doing good works. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically connected with Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents.
 
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David's Harp

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In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so salvation is not the fruit of good works and good works and not the fruit of salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to do good works is intrinsically the content of His gift of saving us from not doing good works. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically connected with Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents.
Sure. It's only by God's grace that we can do any good works. Our part is to remain in Him.
 
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Jonaitis

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But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
- James 2:18
Our works demonstrates faith, and thus, makes works 'saving' in light of what it demonstrates.
“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.”
- Martin Luther
Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works, and thus, his works saved him. The works, in themselves, did not add anything to faith, as some would suppose. They add nothing to faith, they simply commend it and approve it.

Judgment day will reveal our faith through our works, and our works will determine if we are saved. This is the only way works save.
 
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David's Harp

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Our works demonstrates faith, and thus, makes works 'saving' in light of what it demonstrates.

Abraham demonstrated his faith by his works, and thus, his works saved him. The works, in themselves, did not add anything to faith, as some would suppose. They add nothing to faith, they simply commend it and approve it.

Judgment day will reveal our faith through our works, and our works will determine if we are saved. This is the only way works save.
What about God's grace though?
 
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Guojing

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A true faith will always have repentance and works. This is stated in scripture over and over again but I'm only going to give one example due to time and length of the OP. In John 15 for example Jesus shows a beautiful illustration in how true faith works.

Is "We are not saved by our works but" the same as saying "Oxygen does not cause fire, but there is no fire without oxygen"?
 
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Doug Brents

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Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).
While I have issues with other things you have said, I am only going to address this for the moment.

Acts 3:19 says that we are to repent so that we can be forgiven, NOT because we have been. Repentance is not “a sign that you’re saved and sealed”. Repentance leads to forgiveness and salvation.
“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord”

As for your last sentence, look at Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14 and tell me what Scripture says is the point at which the Holy Spirit regenerates us and unites us with Christ.
 
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JacksBratt

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A true faith will always have repentance and works. This is stated in scripture over and over again but I'm only going to give one example due to time and length of the OP. In John 15 for example Jesus shows a beautiful illustration in how true faith works.

In John 15:2 Jesus says:

"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit."

John 15:4

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

In John 15:6 Jesus again warns that those who do not bear fruit will be tossed into the fire and burned.

In John 15:8 Jesus says that the Father's will is that the Christian will bear much fruit and prove to him and to the world that we are his true disciples. When we Christians bear fruit God prunes and takes care of it (See John 15:1)


Now we turn to the Book of Ephesians.


In Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."


This proves that we are not saved by works as does Romans 4:5 but in the very next verse Paul teaches where our works come from and what they're for.

Ephesians 2:10 says "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So if you call yourself a Christian and you don't bear fruit that can be problematic and I would question whether or not your faith is genuine as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Repentance on the other hand is a sign that you're saved and sealed because Repentance comes from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. Without us being regenerated by the Holy Spirit we have no hope for heaven (See John 3).
The "work" we do that is to be driving force which "bears fruit" does not have to be anything more than being good Christians.

You wil be well aware of people who light up a room with their positive attitude, kindness, helping hands, compassion and other attributes of Christ.

If all of us would just do that. .... we would shine bright and others would know that we are different and want to have what we have.

Salvation is a free gift.

Being a good Chrisian, especially today... will be very obvious to those around you.
 
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