I am righteous

nomad

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everyone,
well, isnt anyone sick of just being forgiven? oh i thank God for everlasting grace, but im just tired of being full of sin that God hates and that i hate and i just have to keep asking forgiveness.
i mean isnt the blood and the holyspirit supposed to make me able to overcome satan?

Our walk with Jesus must be a balanced one.  One of the biggest pitfalls we can encounter is going to an extreme.  We can actually begin Hating ourselves because we know how sinful we are.  This will begin to reflect in our perceptions and the way we treat other people.  We loose sight of the Lord in that we try to please Him by obediance to the Law instead of Trusting Him and following the Holy Spirit.  God is very aware of our shortcomings.  If we try to deal with it on our own understanding, strength and ability we will fail.  If we continue down this road we actually put ourselves in a position of saying to God "I can handle this better then you can".  This is not walking in faith in Christ but faith in yourself to be good enough to please God.  When we do that God sometimes will allow this so that we fall right flat on our face.  We are then humbled by this experience and finally come to the conclusion that God is able to deal with our sin.  Once we let go and Trust Him to deal with it and accept our imperfections is when we experience the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit.  We learn to overlook sin and love the person the way Jesus does.  We begin to love God, ourselves and our neighbor the way we should. We are also more capable to recieve love and to understand and believe the depth of Gods love for us.  Day by day we become not of our own plan but by Gods plan a Holy People.

Galatians 5:18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law.

When we learn to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit we then are no longer under the Law but we are upholding the Law.  The minute we go our own way we again are enslaved under the Law.  This is my favorite part of our salvation.  I am no longer bound by the Law if I simply obey the Lord through His Holy Spirit.  My sins aren't held against me any longer they are more like shortcomings of Gods ideal "me" that with a daily walk and fellowship with the Lord will be obliterated with time.  He molds me and I don't try to mold myself.  It does not come overnight.

After following the Holy Spirit and doing as He asks we learn what love really is by doing it.  We don't have to be told any longer what it is because we know.  We also discover the deeper truths when we obey the Lord.  The more we learn the more we understand our need for Him.   We become less in that we yield more of our way over to Him.  When this Happens our way becomes His way and as Reann pointed out the layers of sin start peeling off.  We begin to think and act Like He would yet we still are unique in who we are as individuals.  We become the type of person that God, our neighbor and ourselves can be proud of. 

It took several years for God's Holy Spirit to renew my mind and understanding enough to grasp these simple truths.  I don't have to do anything accept do what He tells me.  He expects me to do the best I can.  I don't have to struggle with anything anymore.  I have been set free. 

When someone approaches me with the Law of the Word I go into "auto ask" mode because I don't wish to become enslaved by the Law or stray from Gods plan of redemption for me.  God will tell us who we should be listening to and recieving correction from according to His Good purpose for our lives.  It is another reason why we should try very hard to follow His lead so we don't end up messing up His work in someone elses life.  When I screw up, I ask Him to forgive me and then ask Him to show me How to do it the right way.  I can tell you, I've got along way to go, but Thank God Through Jesus Christ our Lord it's done.

Grace and Peace Be with us Through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
 
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reeann

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Today at 08:53 AM nomad said this in Post #21

It took several years for God's Holy Spirit to renew my mind and understanding enough to grasp these simple truths.  I don't have to do anything accept do what He tells me.  He expects me to do the best I can.  I don't have to struggle with anything anymore.  I have been set free. 

Grace and Peace Be with us Through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

Amen, work out our salvation with fear and trembling; but know that nothing can remove us from the grasp of God.  Praise Him!!
 
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altya

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Today at 03:07 PM reeann said this in Post #22



Amen, work out our salvation with fear and trembling; but know that nothing can remove us from the grasp of God.  Praise Him!!

YES!!!!!!!

I agree.

I try to see it the same as a coin – One side: Jesus as our righteousness - Other side: we strife to live a holy life. Because of the fact that Jesus paid the full price for us make me obligated to live a holy life.
 
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endure

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reeann

i simply disagree that sin is present in all our lives, i wont go into scripture to prove that but i disagree that that is what the bible teaches.

the closer i get to God the holier i see myself become, not the dirtier i see i am. the word and God CAN have the effect, but i dont believe thats the way its supposed to be.

you cannot deny the teaching of perfection is there, and that is the only thing i ever read, i havent taken it to an extreme, only to honesty.
if its there it means something, to say its there yet we cant be perfect, then you say it means nothing.

you may feel the way you do about your present life, but the word is clear its command to live holy, and its promise for provision to live holy and its instruction in how to live holy. i simply wont live the life of sin, or the bible is a lie.
 
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All4Christ

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can we all agree on this one passage of 1 Thessalonians?
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. ...See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. Rejoice evermore, Pray without ceasing. In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you...hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord JEsus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it."

We are children of the light, not of the darkness. (1 Thess. 5:5) We are called to establish our "hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord JEsus Christ with all his saints."

Finally, can we all agree that all of us have sinned? "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" But notice one thing.....though all have sinned, it doesn't say 'for all are sinning and falling short of the glory of God'. Heh....interesting....

and....

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they should fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:1-6)

I am not trying to argue, only trying to lay out my thoughts on this...without being too argumentative.

But I urge you, my Christian brothers and sisters, to do the following.

"But thou, O man of God...follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
 
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reeann

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All4Christ: I'd say amen. Again, not saying that we should have sin in our lives but sin is present today. We will not be free from its presence until the day of Christ Jesus.
I agree with all of the above; but I am only perfect because of Christ. If you say that I can lose my salvation, I would have to disagree with you, and say I'm trusting in Jesus to redeem me. He knows my heart and while I have fear of the things about me that will be revealed; I know that I am written in His book of life.

When Jesus saved me, He not only PAID the price for my sin, but made me an heir with His righteousness. On that promise I stand. I'm glad you have rid all of the sin out of your life; but I fight against it every day in mine. Its like a dog gnawing on my leg...it has not chance to indwel in me but its still letting me know its there.
 
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nomad

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Today at 07:07 AM reeann said this in Post #22



Amen, work out our salvation with fear and trembling; but know that nothing can remove us from the grasp of God.  Praise Him!!


Proverbs 1:7 Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Only fools despise wisdom and discipline.


When I read your post this verse came to mind.  I used to think that fear and trembling was a bad thing like the fear of a mugger or someone who threatens us harm but it's not.  It's a good fear.  It's a reverential fear towards our Father in heaven.  I copied this out of my dictionary;

a feeling or attitude of deep respect, love, and awe, as for something sacred; veneration

I fear the Lord in a good way because I know He will discipline me if I disobey Him.  I know His discipline on me is out of Love.  I tremble when I know I have sinned against Him because I fear what He will do to me to discipline me.  Just like we fear our earthly Fathers discipline so should we fear our Father in heaven.  Just like you said reann, our Father doesn't stop loving us because we make mistakes nor even when we rebel against Him.  He will discipline us according to that which we have done.  Our Father is not a cruel Father who expects us to go beyond our ability.  It takes years to raise an infant into an adult it also takes years for our Father in Heaven to raise us.  He is worthy of our respect and He is to be honored.
 
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All4Christ

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Never did I say that I had rid my life of sin...by no means am I perfect. Just because I believe pretty much the same way that Endure believes does not mean that I believe I am perfect.  I am just praying that God helps me reach that goal.  I also struggle with sin.  Even Jesus was tempted.  It's not a sin to be tempted.  I am not saying that I do not sin now.  I am just saying that I believe we are called to leave that sin, and to try to be completely in the light and not the darkness.  I am working on that, and I pray that God help me with that.
 
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nomad

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Today at 03:52 PM reeann said this in Post #27

All4Christ: I'd say amen. Again, not saying that we should have sin in our lives but sin is present today. We will not be free from its presence until the day of Christ Jesus.
I agree with all of the above; but I am only perfect because of Christ. If you say that I can lose my salvation, I would have to disagree with you, and say I'm trusting in Jesus to redeem me. He knows my heart and while I have fear of the things about me that will be revealed; I know that I am written in His book of life.

When Jesus saved me, He not only PAID the price for my sin, but made me an heir with His righteousness. On that promise I stand. I'm glad you have rid all of the sin out of your life; but I fight against it every day in mine. Its like a dog gnawing on my leg...it has not chance to indwel in me but its still letting me know its there.

Amen!!  Before I go further I wanted to thank you Reann for these wonderful posts of yours in this and other threads.  I have learned a great deal.  Thank you also for posting my favorite song "Jesus There's Just Something About that Name".

There is something that the Lord taught me many years ago that is relevant here to this thread.  If you break one law you've broken many.

For example;  If I told a lie

I would be breaking the commandment of Loving God and loving my neighbor.

I would be breaking the commandment of "no stealing" because I have robbed someone of the truth.

I would be breaking the commandment of "cheating one another" in that I have cheated you from recieving the truth.

There is also the sin of ignorance.  We can be sinning and not know it simply because we are not knowledgeable about it.

The point I would like to share is there comes a point when you become aware of just how impossible it is to be righteous of your own works.  It doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but the key is to find the balance.


i simply disagree that sin is present in all our lives, i wont go into scripture to prove that but i disagree that that is what the bible teaches.

1 Timothy 1:13 even though I used to scoff at the name of Christ. I hunted down his people, harming them in every way I could. But God had mercy on me because I did it in ignorance and unbelief.

Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest goes into the Most Holy Place, and only once a year, and always with blood, which he offers to God to cover his own sins and the sins the people have committed in ignorance.

Acts 3:17“Friends,£ I realize that what you did to Jesus was done in ignorance; and the same can be said of your leaders.

I want to share this with you because I care about you enough to point out to you you're on a road that will lead to destruction.  I understand where your coming from but I can truthfully tell you we are by no means sin free.  The sin of ignorance is the one that will get you.  We didn't know of our sin until we saw the law.  The law pointed out to us that we were sinners.  However if you don't understand a specific rule or Biblical Law and you disobey that law out of ignorance you have sinned but out of ignorance and not by malicious intent.  You will be penalized but not as much as if you knew it and did it anyway.

For example;  Your drive through a town for the first time around the hour of noon.  You see a speed limit of 30mph but fail to see that between 10:00am and 2:00pm the speed limit is 15mph.  You are guilty of speeding but because of your honest mistake you may be fined less.  It is the same with the Bible.  There are many things in the Bible that take time to learn and do right.  You are guilty in that you have broken the law but won't be disciplined as much because of your ignorance of that law.  However since it hasbeen pointed out to you there is a speed limit of 15mph between the aforementioned times and you do it again then your penalty will be higher because you were told and still disobeyed it.  The penalty will keep getting higher until finally they Judge will just throw you in jail.  You are then bound until you learn to obey the law.  If your set free from jail and do it again then you will probably go to the penitary and be bound for a few years.  The road to destruction for disobediance.

It is the same with Gods laws upon us.  Now it has been pointed out you sin.  You sin by ignorance.  Ok, God will grant you mercy because He knows you don't know of your own sin against Him.  However if He sends people to tell you of your wrong and you stubbornly refuse to accept it then He will have no choice but to penalize you and finally He will bind you up until you learn to obey Him.  The wages of sin is death.  Disobediance to God and continual disobediance to Him will result in being bound and will result in spiritual death.
 
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reeann

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Today at 01:47 AM nomad said this in Post #30

It is the same with Gods laws upon us.  Now it has been pointed out you sin.  You sin by ignorance.  Ok, God will grant you mercy because He knows you don't know of your own sin against Him.  However if He sends people to tell you of your wrong and you stubbornly refuse to accept it then He will have no choice but to penalize you and finally He will bind you up until you learn to obey Him.  The wages of sin is death.  Disobediance to God and continual disobediance to Him will result in being bound and will result in spiritual death.

I agree 100%, especially with te KNOWING and sinning anyway.  It leads to a spiritual void, and without out doubt lose fellowship with God; not your salvation.  I believe that once Your God's, God will lead you back.  The penalty of disobedience is a high price indeed and ANYONE thinking I am condoning sin in a Christian life, by no means!

I cannot explain everything, and can only  but I know what is God's, is always God's.  It is satan's lies to say otherwise. 

From this point I do not wish to argue in this thread.  If we want to discuss the once saved, always saved doctrine, I think we need to take it to another thread.

If your saying as a Christian, we must not sin and seek only that which is righteous, I say amen.  Absolutely, and I am warning all TRUST JESUS, do not trust your own wisdom for that truly is folly; the consequences of your witness will be greatly compromised and while God is merciful; sin is not without consequence. 

I am also here to tell those, who like me, ALLOWED sin in...its never too late...  repent... you know your miserable for a child of God in sin is wreteched indeed.   do not believe satan... God will refresh a repentive heart...go and sin no more... 

 

My Jesus I love thee, I know thou are mine, for thee all the follies of sin I resign, my gracious redeemer, my Savior art thou; if ever I loved the, my Jesus tis now.

 

I love thee, i love thee, i love thee my lord.  I love thee my Savior, I love thee my God.  I love thee, I love thee, and thou dost know, but how much I love thee my actions will show.

O Jesus, my Savior, with thee I am blest, My life and salvation, my joy and my rst;   Thy name be my theme and thy love be my song, Thy grace shall inspire both my heart and my tongue.

 

27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31: What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32: He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33: Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34: Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Gerry

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In rightly dividing the Word of Truth, we cannot throw out this verse:

Ephesians 4:30: "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

I think the Bible is clear about when the day of redemption is. And I have found no verse that says the Holy Spirit will "unseal" us before that day.
 
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nomad

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Today at 09:48 PM reeann said this in Post #31



I agree 100%, especially with te KNOWING and sinning anyway.  It leads to a spiritual void, and without out doubt lose fellowship with God; not your salvation.  I believe that once Your God's, God will lead you back.  The penalty of disobedience is a high price indeed and ANYONE thinking I am condoning sin in a Christian life, by no means!


If your saying as a Christian, we must not sin and seek only that which is righteous, I say amen.  Absolutely, and I am warning all TRUST JESUS, do not trust your own wisdom for that truly is folly; the consequences of your witness will be greatly compromised and while God is merciful; sin is not without consequence. 

I am also here to tell those, who like me, ALLOWED sin in...its never too late...  repent... you know your miserable for a child of God in sin is wreteched indeed.   do not believe satan... God will refresh a repentive heart...go and sin no more...  

  

 

27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31: What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32: He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33: Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34: Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Thank you reeann.  I know of and heard people say that one can loose their salvation.  This simply isn't true.  Like Gerry pointed out

 
Ephesians 4:30: "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

No arguement here just agreement.  I see void and death as being of the same end and meaning.

I've been down the road of sin and been in the Lords jail so to speak and I have learned many valuble lessons.  I guess maybe thats why I appreciate Him so much because He forgave me and took me back even after all the hurt I caused Him.  It simply is beyond words how I feel about Jesus.  The man has earned my respect.
 
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Yesterday at 10:48 PM reeann said this in Post #31

From this point I do not wish to argue in this thread.  If we want to discuss the once saved, always saved doctrine, I think we need to take it to another thread.

If your saying as a Christian, we must not sin and seek only that which is righteous, I say amen.  Absolutely, and I am warning all TRUST JESUS, do not trust your own wisdom for that truly is folly; the consequences of your witness will be greatly compromised and while God is merciful; sin is not without consequence. 

I am also here to tell those, who like me, ALLOWED sin in...its never too late...  repent... you know your miserable for a child of God in sin is wreteched indeed.   do not believe satan... God will refresh a repentive heart...go and sin no more...  

 


I agree with what you said here.  Thank you for putting in what i was trying to say in a much better wording.  :)

God Bless and Keep You!
 
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endure

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ok, this isnt really going anywhere.
whatever reasons you think prove that we can't be free of sin, it doesnt really matter.
sin being present, doesnt matter.
sinning by ignorance, doesnt matter.
nothing matters except

2 cor 7.1
"...let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit, and PERFECT HOLINESS in the fear of God!"

(whether you agree we can be free of all sin or not, it doesn't matter, and no reason you give to prove your belief matters, because the bible and God himself commands you to do so)

2 tim 2.19
...let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

(whether you think a Christian can depart from sin or not, your commanded to do so, AND YOU CANT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS ARE FREE FROM THIS BY GRACE, BECUASE HE TOLD "CHRISTIANS WHO ARE ALREADY UNDER THE BLOOD"  TO DO THIS)

romans 6.2
God forbid. how shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

(whether you think a Christian can be free of sin or not doesnt matter, and whatever reason you give means nothing, becuase you are still commanded to do so. paul thought it was a dispicable thing to see Christians still living in sin, or else he wouldn't have said "GOD FORBID! HOW SHALL WE DO THIS?")

in light of these facts, i will never believe Christians are bound to live in sin. i could go deeper into scripture and disprove every little falacie that people think justifies their sins, but most of the time its to no avail, so i wont bother.
but it doesnt really matter, if you think you cant, then you are still commanded to do something you can never do. if your willing to live with that conclusion. but as for me, im sticking with the word of God where he said that with EVERY temptation hed make a way of escape so wed sin not, and that through the changing power of the blood of Jesus, and the power of the Holyspirit living in us filling us with his might and wisdom, we can be free of these fallen filthy things. it is a shameful thing to see the kings partaking in filthy things.

the fact is, Grace is not something that simply pardons you. Grace is an effectual force that gives you the ability to do things youve never done before and never could have. grace pardons your past sins, and gives you power to not sin anymore. graces endues us with ability, not simply gives us pardon.
as John Bever said, if you think by grace your present sins dont mean anything in eternity, then you dont really have grace, you have a counterfit grace. you have false grace. becuase the true grace of God not only pardons you, it changes you into the likeness of Jesus who lives in you, by the holyspirit.
like romans 8.13 says grace and the holyspirit do more than pardon sinful deeds in your body, IT MORTIFIES THE DEEDS OF YOUR BODY.
like anything else being dead, there dead, there gone, they are no longer with us. it doesnt mean they no longer effect us.

i agree there is a perfection that cant be reached in this body, but the bible speaks of 2 diffrent kinds of perfection.

1. phillipians 3.12,14
"not as though i had already attained, either were already perfect, but i follow after....i press toward the mark!

that perfection is "teleioo" it means to make a full end, to finish, to fullfill. this is the perfect state that we attain in heavon.

2.phillipians 3.15
"let us therefore as many as be perfect..."

that perfection is "teleios" it means mature, complete, full grown.
we talk about how we are always learning and growing in Christ, this is the full grown christian. this is the Christian who aparently has done the commands that you cannot deny we find in the bible such as "go and sin not.." (ya know Jesus said that to a woman who already had grace?). so you cant say we have already attained this perfection in grace. or else all christians would be here, but they arent. becuase he said Christians still needed to do this in 2 cor 7.1
 
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Today at 11:22 PM Gerry said this in Post #36



This is a good one. Thanks for posting this. Am I the only one or did anyone else notice it says, "dead to SIN" NOT dead to SINS? Now the question is WHAT sin does that refer to, eh?


First off...i thought we weren't arguing about anything anymore on this thread.  Second off.....this is the definition of merriam webster's "sin"  (the second of the 2 definitions

EITHER

a: transgression of the law of God

OR 

b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God


Sin can mean a state too....henceforth that could mean we cannot live in the state of sin anymore...just a thought.

I'm not trying to argue.  I'm just trying to point out that there are more than one definitions of sin, and depending on which one you use could determine which way you interpret it.

GOD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU!

 
 
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