I think it would be better if Trump won in 2020, give me counter arguments

Desk trauma

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Oompa Loompa

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You only asked for one, but i will add these 23:

I also wonder what would have happened in Ukraine with a weakened NATO and Trump openly courting and fawning over Putun.
Russia would have never invaded Ukrain. Had Trump been elected.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you Ooompa so I will just state the following:

I believe *any* candidate who takes the Presidential oath of office seriously and respects the United States Constitution would have been better than Donald Trump in 2020.
Would you consider Biden to be a respecter of the Constitution when he blatantly attempted to violate the constitution by using OSHA to force vaccine mandates and forgive student loans? Both of those situations, Biden acknowledged that it was not Constitutional but attempted it anyway.

And what do you mean about "going down rabbit trails?" You are the one not addressing the OP topic. I am only pointing that out. So if I may respectfully ask that you stop going down the rabbit trails and provide a counter argument for the OP as requested or move onto another thread.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I think it would be better if Trump won in 2020, give me counter arguments
Not meaning to derail but I'm curious why it would be better. Can't really counter without some substance or points of reference. Blessings.
 
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DaisyDay

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Had Trump won we would still have a President who believes the Constitution can be suspended if things don't go how he likes. That is orders of magnitude worse than economic or policy situations we have now.
Plus the economic situation started in 2020 and he was incapable of governing in a downturn.
 
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DaisyDay

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Not meaning to derail but I'm curious why it would be better. Can't really counter without some substance or points of reference. Blessings.
Well, there wouldn’t have been an insurrection and prosecutions of Donald’s malfeasances would have been suspended for another four years. The statute of limitations would have run out for many of them. :oldthumbsup:
 
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rambot

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Yttrium

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I consider Trump to be the worst president ever, not because of his policies, but because of his character. His constant stream of mistruths and nutty conspiracy theories have created an awful fad for that kind of thing in the country. He feeds people paranoia and hatred. And he has demonstrated no respect for the Constitution.

The Republicans can do far better than him.
 
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Arcangl86

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I think it would be better if Trump won in 2020, give me counter arguments
It's kind of hard to give you any counter arguments when you haven't made any argument in the first place.
 
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rambot

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I consider Trump to be the worst president ever, not because of his policies, but because of his character. His constant stream of mistruths and nutty conspiracy theories have created an awful fad for that kind of thing in the country. He feeds people paranoia and hatred. And he has demonstrated no respect for the Constitution.

The Republicans can do far better than him.
My guess is that every Trump critic on here, if they felt the desire and need to actually type out their arguments, would probably type out this post.

Before they voted him in Republicans in government ALREADY KNEW he was going to be a cancer to their party. Some predicted in 2015/16 that he was going to cause the "Death of the republican party". And while I would not argue the party is dying right now, I would argue there is more than a little turmoil going on.
 
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Vylo

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I consider Trump to be the worst president ever, not because of his policies, but because of his character. His constant stream of mistruths and nutty conspiracy theories have created an awful fad for that kind of thing in the country. He feeds people paranoia and hatred. And he has demonstrated no respect for the Constitution.

The Republicans can do far better than him.
it's hard to judge trump yet as his effects are still unknown (he's even running again) but as of now it would be hard for me to rate him as the worst. certainly the most corrupt, but I would rank him 4th, behind Pierce, Andrew Johnson, and Buchanan. the first and last lead the US to civil war and the first started the US's interventionist policy, leading to decades of war and death. Johnson failed reconstruction, and created nearly permanent rifts in the US culture that stull fester to this day. it is a hard climb to beat those 3, Not even Hayes, whose election was literally stolen, or Harding, who was arguably the most corrupt presidency before Trump could do it.
 
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DaisyDay

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it's hard to judge trump yet as his effects are still unknown (he's even running again) but as of now it would be hard for me to rate him as the worst. certainly the most corrupt, but I would rank him 4th, behind Pierce, Andrew Johnson, and Buchanan. the first and last lead the US to civil war and the first started the US's interventionist policy, leading to decades of war and death. Johnson failed reconstruction, and created nearly permanent rifts in the US culture that stull fester to this day. it is a hard climb to beat those 3, Not even Hayes, whose election was literally stolen, or Harding, who was arguably the most corrupt presidency before Trump could do it.
You're probably right - we are still too close to have perspective.
 
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Vylo

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You're probably right - we are still too close to have perspective.
Currently, presidential scholars have him tied with Pierce. Pierce was actually earnest in his desire to run the nation and better it, just incredibly bad at it. So bad that he's been consistently at the bottom of presidential rankings despite his inclinations to do good by the nation. He may have honestly been the worst president at actually running the nation. Trump simply never cared about the nation. It was all a grift to him I can't say I've seen, read, or heard of another president having that degree of apathy towards the country, but he is the first one with no prior public or military service, so that may be one reason. Even those that eagerly sought wealth and prestige from the office still had a degree of real patriotism. Jackson, for example, may have been a monster of a man, but he cared for the US deeply and greatly expanded its power and made it prosperous.
 
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Yttrium

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it's hard to judge trump yet as his effects are still unknown (he's even running again) but as of now it would be hard for me to rate him as the worst. certainly the most corrupt, but I would rank him 4th, behind Pierce, Andrew Johnson, and Buchanan. the first and last lead the US to civil war and the first started the US's interventionist policy, leading to decades of war and death. Johnson failed reconstruction, and created nearly permanent rifts in the US culture that stull fester to this day. it is a hard climb to beat those 3, Not even Hayes, whose election was literally stolen, or Harding, who was arguably the most corrupt presidency before Trump could do it.
One of the reasons historians rate Trump a little higher is because of his ability to influence people. However, I see that as a negative rather than a positive, because he influences people in a bad way. Trump wasn't just inept at running things, he actively harmed the nation with his influence over his followers. Some of the other worst presidents just ineptly failed to stop bad things from happening, rather than make the bad things happen themselves.
 
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Pommer

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The State Legislatures already decide who gets the State's Electoral College votes.
Agreed.
As of this post all State Legislatures have decided that the assigning of their state’s Electoral College be contingent upon what their citizens say, by way of a popular vote.
 
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perplexed

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Why do you think it would have been better? How can we give you counter arguments if we don't know the basis for your opinion?
I cannot give my opinions without violating forum rules so I need others to get the ball rolling.

I don't see how conservative judges that let states decide issues like abortion is a horrible outcome.
 
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JSRG

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I cannot give my opinions without violating forum rules so I need others to get the ball rolling.
What forum rules would be violated?

I don't see how conservative judges that let states decide issues like abortion is a horrible outcome.
I don't think it's horrible--it's great that Roe v. Wade, which I consider either the worst or second-worst Supreme Court decision (Dred Scott is the other candidate) was overturned. I'll always give Trump some credit for that. Actually, he had some pretty good Supreme Court picks, in contrast to how bad his choices for the executive office itself often were--my guess is that when you have people who actually do know what they're doing giving you a list to choose from, anyone can make pretty smart choices, even Trump.

That said, this (like most other things I can praise Trump for) is something that I feel any of the other Republican nominees would have done. In contrast, the things that one could say were "distinctively Trump" were almost all negative.

But let's return to the question here. You cite the appointing of judges. That certainly would be an argument as to why it was good Trump won in 2016 (despite my considerable issues with him, I do think, especially in retrospect, that he was a far better choice than Hillary). But that is not an argument at all as to why it would be better if he won in 2020, as everything relevant to what you refer to was already accomplished in his first term.

So the one thing you've cited so far as an argument is not, in fact, an argument as to why things would have been better had Trump won in 2020. It's just an argument for why it was good Trump won in 2016.
 
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