A Question for Trinitarians

Daniel Peres said:

A simple way to put it is “distinct” means “different”, separate is “not together” or “apart.” In other words, the roles of the three persons are different but the three persons are never alone, they are always together.

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Okay, that works.

But always together does not mean they are not separate persons.

Clare73 said:

Okay, that works.

But always together does not mean they are not separate persons.

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If your definition of separate means that they are never alone, that each person of the Trinity is fully the one true God then I have no problem with you using the word “separate.”

Nux said:

So 5700 verses from OT must be enough for you to believe his name is "Yahweh"

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God is the God of many names, in biblical times names told us something about the person so God has many names because He has many attributes. I rest my hat on the voice of God Himself, when asked what His name is He replied "I AM" Jesus also made that statement to confirm that He is God.

disciple Clint said:

God is the God of many names, in biblical times names told us something about the person so God has many names because He has many attributes. I rest my hat on the voice of God Himself, when asked what His name is He replied "I AM" Jesus also made that statement to confirm that He is God.

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I’m not saying you’re wrong, but let me offer another perspective. Maybe God has no name. He always seems to be called by a title or description. Even your example here is more of a description. Furthermore, God didn’t actually say his name was “I am.” He was responding to Moses’ question, “Who shall I say sent me?” He didn’t ask, what is your name. Even in the NT, Jesus and Emanuel could be considered titles or descriptions.

Like I said, I am not criticizing anybody’s view on this issue. I don’t even actually disagree. I am just thinking out loud, and offering a different perspective.

Little-Flock said:

What is the name of the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Ghost"?

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According to Matthew 28:19 it is one name into which the believers are immersed, plunged into, baptized into - one name.

"Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the [singular] name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

Am I right?

tampasteve said:

More descriptions on each person of the Trinity. But "father" is also a name and title, is it not? I would call my earthly father "Dad", "Father", etc. or I could call him by his actual name.

I think this website does an OK job explaining that.

No, that mixes the different persons of the Trinity. They are all unified in one God, the Godhead, but they are not the same person.

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I have seen this piece of thoughtful graphic art. But I don't think it is adaquate.
Maybe no graphic can capture the revelation fully of the three-one God.

For eample - the graphic shows the Son is not the Holy Spirit.
But the word of God says "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)

Again, the graphic says the Father is not the Son. Well not completely true.
The Son given is called Eternal Father in Isaiah 9:6.

So the graphic is a good try. But not perfect. We might forgive that limitation.

Again the graphic shows the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Well, not exactly.
"One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:6)

How can the Father be "in all" the members of the Body of Christ, UNLESS the Father is the Spirit?

Of course pushbacks are possible even with what I have explained?
"Well, was the Father crucified on the cross. Huh? Huh??"
"Well, was the Holy Spirit three days dead in Hades? Huh? Huh??"

So the graphic is limited.
And my caveats are also limited.
It is best just to say "Amen" to the pure statements of the Bible, being willing to appear foolish in the eyes of the world's "wisdom."

God is the self existant one. He never had a beginnibg, His has always existed. We cannot understand that, because we do not know what it means to exist independantly of all else. In the old testament, we discover that God has many names. Names in the old testament tells something about the character and the nature of that person, but it is not possible to definine God in narrow terms. He is so all encompassing and He cannot be limited and He want us to understand that He completely surpasses all other beings, so He is manifested by a multitude of names, so that we can understand this. He is completely beyond all that we can ever imagine, or ever understand. He is God and there is no other God, but Him.

You alone are God. You are the most high and all things are made for your glory!

disciple Clint said:

God is the God of many names, in biblical times names told us something about the person so God has many names because He has many attributes. I rest my hat on the voice of God Himself, when asked what His name is He replied "I AM" Jesus also made that statement to confirm that He is God.

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This is strange. Read carefully, this is what God says:
‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.’

Exodus 3:13-15
13 But Moses said to God, “Look, if I go to the Israelites and I say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’ then what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I am that I am.” And he said, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’”
15 And God said again to Moses, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.’

I AM is not the name but God said “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’”
Then he revealed his name “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever

disciple Clint said:

God is the God of many names

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When Jesus (by the way, "Jesus" means "YAHWEH saves" not "I AM saves") taught his disciples how to pray, first thing he instructed them to ask from heavenly Father was “Our Father who is in heaven, may your name be treated as holy." I see nothing here about some many names you've mentioned. Its obvious, Jesus was talking about particular name well known to him, his heavenly Father and his disciples. But... see to yourself

Matthew 6:9-13
9 Therefore you pray in this way:
“Our Father who is in heaven,
may your name be treated as holy.
10 May your kingdom come,
may your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not bring us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.

Clare73 said:

And yet the NT word of God presents the three divine agents of the Trinity with personal pronouns, personal titles, personal functions and acting as personal agents. . .thereby presenting the three divine agents in the one God as persons.

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Could you please show in the Bible some other divine person except Yahweh God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.
Like, somebody else divine, speaking, acting, sitting on the throne, so on.

Nux said:

Could you please show in the Bible some other divine person except Yahweh God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.
Like, somebody else divine, speaking, acting, sitting on the throne, so on.

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There are no other divine beings.

Divinity and spirit are God's nature only.

Angelic and spirit are angels' nature only.

Human and material are humans' nature only.

Animal and material are animals' nature only.

Plant and material are plants' nature only.

Mineral and material are stones'/rocks' nature only.

Daniel Peres said:

He always seems to be called by a title or description

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What? Have you ever tried to read preface to your Bible translation? In most cases they always mention there, in smallest type, they substituted the Name with the "Lord". Just try to dig a bit you'll face the real different perspective...

Clare73 said:

Divinity and spirit are God's nature only.

Angelic and spirit are angels' nature only.

Human and material are human's nature only.

Animal and material are animal'a nature only.

Plant and material are plants' nature only.

Mineral and material are rocks' nature only.

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In case I wasn't clear enough. You said, the Three are agents of some one God. So I asked to kindly point out somebody else divine, acting, speaking, sitting on the throne, judging, forgiving, raising up and so on except the mentioned Three. You are so confident touching that matter, I'm sure you got some direct references.

Clare73 said:

There are no other divine beings.

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So the agents (Father forgive me it is just a figure of speech) of whom are the Three?

Nux said:

When Jesus (by the way, "Jesus" means "YAHWEH saves" not "I AM saves") taught his disciples how to pray, first thing he instructed them to ask from heavenly Father was “Our Father who is in heaven, may your name be treated as holy." I see nothing here about some many names you've mentioned. Its obvious, Jesus was talking about particular name well known to him, his heavenly Father and his disciples. But... see to yourself

Matthew 6:9-13
9 Therefore you pray in this way:
“Our Father who is in heaven,
may your name be treated as holy.
10 May your kingdom come,
may your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not bring us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.

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It is possible to take "how to pray" too legally.

Stephen called on the Lord Jesus and prayed to Him.

"And they stoned Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!
And kneeling down, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. And when he had said this, he fell asleep." (Acts 7:59,60)

Don't you think that that was an entirely acceptable and exemplary prayer to God? I do.

Paul besought the Lord Jesus three times, peitioning for the removal of a troublesome thorn.

"Concerning this I entreated the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
And He has said to me, My grace is sufficent for you. For My power is perfected in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:8,9a)

This was a perfectly effective prayer to the Lord Jesus and receiving reply from Him.

Matthew 6:9-13 is a guideline. It is one of many in the Bible.
And the more I confess Jesus as the I AM the more grace flows into me and the more I feel the Father is delighted.

oikonomia said:

It is possible to take "how to pray" too legally.

Stephen called on the Lord Jesus and prayed to Him.

"And they stoned Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!
And kneeling down, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. And when he had said this, he fell asleep." (Acts 7:59,60)

Don't you think that that was an entirely acceptable and exemplary prayer to God? I do.

Paul besought the Lord Jesus three times, peitioning for the removal of a troublesome thorn.

"Concerning this I entreated the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
And He has said to me, My grace is sufficent for you. For My power is perfected in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:8,9a)

This was a perfectly effective prayer to the Lord Jesus and receiving reply from Him.

Matthew 6:9-13 is a guideline. It is one of many in the Bible.
And the more I confess Jesus as the I AM the more grace flows into me and the more I feel the Father is delighted.

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Look, Jesus' guideline is at the last place for you, one among the many in the Bible, but it is supposed to be at the first. Please try to reorder, much more grace on the way. I'm not saying that is the only player possible but... definitely better to reorder and pay attention to his words.

Nux said:

Look, Jesus' guideline is at the last place for you, one among the many in the Bible, but it is supposed to be at the first. Please try to reorder, much more grace on the way

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It is not at "the last place" for me.
It is one of a number of encouraging and instructing passages.

We need all the help we can get.

Nux said:

In case I wasn't clear enough. You said, the Three are agents of some one God. So I asked to kindly point out somebody else divine, acting, speaking, sitting on the throne, judging, forgiving, raising up and so on except the mentioned Three. You are so confident touching that matter, I'm sure you got some direct references.

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There are three (agents) persons (as the NT reveals) in the one divinity, God.

I don't know what you mean about there being someone else, or more divine beings other than the Trinity. . .

There is no Biblical warrant for that notion.

oikonomia said:

It is not at "the last place" for me.
It is one of a number of encouraging and instructing passages.

We need all the help we can get.

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And Jesus is one of a number of teachers and instructors? One of the Bible characters?
I mean stop, he is the person, the one who is above all, the one who will raise you up. There is no one else like him so worthy to listen to.
He was saying the words and completing the works of God God bless you

Nux said:

So the agents (Father forgive me it is just a figure of speech) of whom are the Three?

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Agents are persons acting in a particular capacity, in this case the divine capacity.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are called persons because the NT reveals them to have characteristics of a person; i.e., they act/perform as persons, the agents are personal (of the nature of persons). See post #68.