the wrath of God

YahuahSaves

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As far as God's favoritism, He does say He has no partiality, but a very good case can be made that, again, He is speaking about those within a certain group. We have multiple examples of Jesus showing very obvious preference of one people over another. Examples later.

Not true.


Romans 2:1-11

You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God’s judgment when you do the same things? Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin? But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will judge everyone according to what they have done. He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
 
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setst777

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How do you dismiss the verses that clearly do not support your argument? The verses that say Yahweh has given all things , not some , to Jesus and that he will lose none. It’s just like when scripture says directly that it “ It’s Gods will that none should parish “ that goes against your narrative, because a eternal hell is a sacred cow that one must keep at all costs, that is why without any scripture you must have two wills of God. I choose to put the emphasis on the verses that say Jesus is the savior of the world and there are more than just one. So I will ask you show me the verses that say God has two wills one he can do and one he can’t.
Yahweh has given all things to Lord Jesus, and he will lose none "that God has given him." If you quote in context you will understand.

The same Lord Jesus who is given all things, is that very Lord who, at the Judgment, will condemn to eternal punishment.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

It is God's desire that none should perish, but it is God's will that those who believe will be saved.

John 6:39-40 (WEB) 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 For this is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The ones who believe are the ones who will come to Lord Jesus. That is the will of God. Those who refuse to believe remain condemned.

John 3:16-18
(WEB)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

The above Passage should be plain to understand.

The Scriptures clearly warn us of eternal punishment, the Scriptures of which I provided for you to review, and now write again for you to review and heed:

Daniel 12:1-2 (WEB) At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Jude 1:7
(WEB) 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, having in the same way as these given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are shown as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:12-13 (WEB) 12 These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The eternality of punishment is taught by Lord Jesus in various ways. Some of these are as follows:

Matthew 5:22-26 (WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is another example of the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
 
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FineLinen

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Are you talking about physical death here?
God calls us to salvation (we make a choice) ...

Our Heavenly Lord has firmly rooted salvation within Himself. His call has nothing to do with choice, but in Him who is salvation.

God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who believe.
 
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YahuahSaves

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Our Heavenly Lord has firmly rooted salvation within Himself. His call has nothing to do with choice, but in Him who is salvation.

God is the salvation of all mankind, esprecially those who believe.

Your statements are contradictory.
In order to be saved we must first make the choice to believe it's a conscious decision we make when we hear the Gospel truth about Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
When we do that (humble ourselves) it naturally brings us to repentance and the Lords work in us (the process of sanctification can begin).
None of that happens without humility.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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Yahweh has given all things to Lord Jesus, and he will lose none "that God has given him." If you quote in context you will understand.

The same Lord Jesus who is given all things, is that very Lord who, at the Judgment, will condemn to eternal punishment.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

It is God's desire that none should perish, but it is God's will that those who believe will be saved.

John 6:39-40 (WEB) 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 For this is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The ones who believe are the ones who will come to Lord Jesus. That is the will of God. Those who refuse to believe remain condemned.

John 3:16-18
(WEB)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

The above Passage should be plain to understand.

The Scriptures clearly warn us of eternal punishment, the Scriptures of which I provided for you to review, and now write again for you to review and heed:

Daniel 12:1-2 (WEB) At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Jude 1:7
(WEB) 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, having in the same way as these given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are shown as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:12-13 (WEB) 12 These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The eternality of punishment is taught by Lord Jesus in various ways. Some of these are as follows:

Matthew 5:22-26 (WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is another example of the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
The problem I see with much of what I see is that circular reasoning is what many people are using to try to prove your point. It’s no different than what evolution teaches these rocks are millions of years old , how do you know that because the fossils in them lived millions of years ago , how do you know they lived millions of years ago , because they are in ricks that are millions of years old. You all are doing the same thing I have seen it over and over especially in the cut and paste posts . In my English Bible it Jesus uses the word eternal so it must be eternal, how do you know aionios is eternal because Jesus said it. It has to be eternal because Jesus said it and all those who believe aionios is eternal agree so it must be correct. What those of us who follow the major view of the early church ( first 500 years) we say aionios is of the age and does not exclusively mean eternal. The belief that hell is eternal is strait out of pagan religion that the Latin branch of the church believe because they did not like the Greek or did not understand Greek. So every time I see a scripture quote with whe word aionios I read it as age and those who follow the Latin tradition read it as eternal, so the same verses that I read and others read we will never agree on . Just to let you know I understand the tradition you hold on to because I have taught it for years it wasn’t until I went out to prove UR wrong and started reading the early church fathers and did much seeking and prayer did I realize that it was I who was wrong and now after about 3 years of studying and a firm believer in Apokatastasis.
 
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setst777

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The problem I see with much of what I see is that circular reasoning is what many people are using to try to prove your point. It’s no different than what evolution teaches these rocks are millions of years old , how do you know that because the fossils in them lived millions of years ago , how do you know they lived millions of years ago , because they are in ricks that are millions of years old. You all are doing the same thing I have seen it over and over especially in the cut and paste posts . In my English Bible it Jesus uses the word eternal so it must be eternal, how do you know aionios is eternal because Jesus said it. It has to be eternal because Jesus said it and all those who believe aionios is eternal agree so it must be correct. What those of us who follow the major view of the early church ( first 500 years) we say aionios is of the age and does not exclusively mean eternal. The belief that hell is eternal is strait out of pagan religion that the Latin branch of the church believe because they did not like the Greek or did not understand Greek. So every time I see a scripture quote with whe word aionios I read it as age and those who follow the Latin tradition read it as eternal, so the same verses that I read and others read we will never agree on . Just to let you know I understand the tradition you hold on to because I have taught it for years it wasn’t until I went out to prove UR wrong and started reading the early church fathers and did much seeking and prayer did I realize that it was I who was wrong and now after about 3 years of studying and a firm believer in Apokatastasis.
I review all the Scriptures relating to eternal life and eternal punishment. This term, and similar terms are used together in the same sentence in many of those Scriptures that mention life and punishment together.

To say some will go into eternal life and others into eternal punishment indicates to me that the word for "eternal" in each of the examples given would mean that "eternal" means the same thing for both - that Life is eternal and so, Punishment is eternal.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Why should only life be eternal but not punishment in Matthew 25:46 when the same word is used for both, and they are listed in the very same sentence.?

As well, that is how Lord Jesus teaches us about punishment or torment, that it is eternal.

For instance:

Matthew 5:22-26
(WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus teaching us about a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus is describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is another example of by Lord Jesus explaining the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire, and as Lord Jesus clearly illustrates in Luke 16:19-31. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?

None of this is circular reasoning. This is clear teaching from God about his righteous judgment to those who deliberately continue in sin.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Nothing circular here.
Rather, you are clearly ignoring these Scriptures so you can hold onto your man-made doctrine. Choose this day whom you will put your faith in for salvation? Either God's Word or man's word.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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I review all the Scriptures relating to eternal life and eternal punishment. This term, and similar terms are used together in the same sentence in many of those Scriptures that mention life and punishment together.

To say some will go into eternal life and others into eternal punishment indicates to me that the word for "eternal" in each of the examples given would mean that "eternal" means the same thing for both - that Life is eternal and so, Punishment is eternal.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Why should only life be eternal but not punishment in Matthew 25:46 when the same word is used for both, and they are listed in the very same sentence.?

As well, that is how Lord Jesus teaches us about punishment or torment, that it is eternal.

For instance:

Matthew 5:22-26
(WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus teaching us about a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus is describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is another example of by Lord Jesus explaining the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire, and as Lord Jesus clearly illustrates in Luke 16:19-31. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?

None of this is circular reasoning. This is clear teaching from God about his righteous judgment to those who deliberately continue in sin.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Nothing circular here.
Rather, you are clearly ignoring these Scriptures so you can hold onto your man-made doctrine. Choose this day whom you will put your faith in for salvation? Either God's Word or man's word.
Like I said earlier I am of the camp that believe that aionios is best translated as of the age not eternal. It’s like the saying, a tall man was standing in front of a tall skyscraper. No one would think that the man is as tall as the skyscraper. Aionios is like that is of the age it could be only 3 days like Jonah in the whale, a aionios slave is for a life time or aionios mountains that will last for thousands of years . So just because aionios is used twice in one sentence doesn’t mean that it has the same duration in each instance.
 
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setst777

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Like I said earlier I am of the camp that believe that aionios is best translated as of the age not eternal. It’s like the saying, a tall man was standing in front of a tall skyscraper. No one would think that the man is as tall as the skyscraper. Aionios is like that is of the age it could be only 3 days like Jonah in the whale, a aionios slave is for a life time or aionios mountains that will last for thousands of years . So just because aionios is used twice in one sentence doesn’t mean that it has the same duration in each instance.
What is the Scripture you are referring to about Jonah and the two aionios?

The Scriptures I quoted about eternal life and eternal condemnation give no teaching that the word used for eternal is different. You cannot assume a difference when no difference is taught.

As well, the "eternal punishment" is taught by Scripture to be "forever and ever." This always means eternal in every case that it is used in the OT or the NT.

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?
 
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Jeff Saunders

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What is the Scripture you are referring to about Jonah and the two aionios?

The Scriptures I quoted about eternal life and eternal condemnation give no teaching that the word used for eternal is different. You cannot assume a difference when no difference is taught.

As well, the "eternal punishment" is taught by Scripture to be "forever and ever." This always means eternal in every case that it is used in the OT or the NT.

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?
The word we get eternal in the English is aionios ( Greek)which comes from ion which is how we get our English word eon. When we see eternal in our English Bible that is usually the word it’s translated from . Greek did have a word that means eternal that is aidios , this means eternal all the time but aionios can mean eternal but does not have to be . The equivalent Hebrew word is olam and that is the word used for how long Jonah was in the fish .
 
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setst777

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The word we get eternal in the English is aionios ( Greek)which comes from ion which is how we get our English word eon. When we see eternal in our English Bible that is usually the word it’s translated from . Greek did have a word that means eternal that is aidios , this means eternal all the time but aionios can mean eternal but does not have to be . The equivalent Hebrew word is olam and that is the word used for how long Jonah was in the fish .
Remember, you did say this Passage of Jonah would refute the idea that the Passages about Eternal life and Eternal punishment do not necessarily mean "eternal" in each instance it is used in the same sentence. Okay, since the Passage you mentioned about Jonah is in the OT, then please quote the Scripture of Jonah with the two olam words used together, with one of the olam words referring to eternity and the other olam referring to a time frame in the same sentence.

As well, the "eternal punishment" is taught by Scripture to be "forever and ever." This term "forever and ever" always means eternal in every case that it is used in the OT or the NT.

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?
 
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Remember, you did say this Passage of Jonah would refute the idea that the Passages about Eternal life and Eternal punishment do not necessarily mean "eternal" in each instance it is used in the same sentence. Okay, since the Passage you mentioned about Jonah is in the OT, then please quote the Scripture of Jonah with the two olam words used together, with one of the olam words referring to eternity and the other olam referring to a time frame in the same sentence.

As well, the "eternal punishment" is taught by Scripture to be "forever and ever." This term "forever and ever" always means eternal in every case that it is used in the OT or the NT.

"FOREVER AND EVER" cannot be interpreted to mean "a limited time."

If you disagree that eternal means eternal when referring to eternal punishment, and similar terms, then consider that this torment is also explained to be "forever and ever."

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

What does "forever and ever" mean to you?
What Greek and Hebrew word are you using that you believe says forever or eternal?
 
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Der Alte

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The word we get eternal in the English is aionios ( Greek)which comes from ion which is how we get our English word eon. When we see eternal in our English Bible that is usually the word it’s translated from . Greek did have a word that means eternal that is aidios , this means eternal all the time but aionios can mean eternal but does not have to be . The equivalent Hebrew word is olam and that is the word used for how long Jonah was in the fish .
Either the word aionios means "eternal" or it doesn't. It can't mean "eternal" and something else other times. How do we explain when "aionios" refers to something that is not or can't be eternal? It is being used figuratively. There are more than 200 figures of use used in the Bible.
The Greek word for eternity is "aion." Aion is pronounced as if saying "I own." "Aionios" is pronounced "I own ee ohs."
 
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Der Alte

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Like I said earlier I am of the camp that believe that aionios is best translated as of the age not eternal. It’s like the saying, a tall man was standing in front of a tall skyscraper. No one would think that the man is as tall as the skyscraper. Aionios is like that is of the age it could be only 3 days like Jonah in the whale, a aionios slave is for a life time or aionios mountains that will last for thousands of years . So just because aionios is used twice in one sentence doesn’t mean that it has the same duration in each instance.
“aionios” occurs 71x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [.03%]
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T. [53%]
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T. [35%]
Despite some uninformed arguments “aionios” is never translated “age(s)” in the N.T. The noun “aion” is sometimes translated “age(s)”
= = = = = = = = = =
Juxtapose means, the act or an instance of placing two or more things side by side often to compare or contrast.
In twenty-four [24] of the following verses αἰώνιος/aionios is defined/described as eternal, everlasting etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.

= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refers to something which is not/cannot be eternal, e.g. “world,”
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following 24 verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten [10] verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal/for ever/everlasting.”
Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας/lit. unto the eternity [aionas [PlMas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos] [/indent]

In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here definitely means eternity.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever. [εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα/aiona [lit. unto eternity]
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live forever” with “death.” If “live aiona” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiona” by definition here means “eternity.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never
[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα[font]/ eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” “age(s) is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion life” with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen]I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][unto eternity][fn] see death."
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.

[Character Limit. Continued next post]
 
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Der Alte

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[Previous post continued]


Paul used the word “aionios” eleven [11] times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]​
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]​
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.​
In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/lit. unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] [lit: unto the eternity of eternities] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “unto the aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
 
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Either the word aionios means "eternal" or it doesn't. It can't mean "eternal" and something else other times. How do we explain when "aionios" refers to something that is not or can't be eternal? It is being used figuratively. There are more than 200 figures of use used in the Bible.
The Greek word for eternity is "aion." Aion is pronounced as if saying "I own." "Aionios" is pronounced "I own ee ohs."
When the New Testament was written they used aionios which was a word that was used when the end was not in sight. They didn’t know how long something was going to last so aionios was used when they wanted something to be eternal they used the word aidios . When they translated the Hebrew scripture into Greek they translated olam to aionios. The very word used for the time Jonah spent in the fish , the time of the Aaron priesthood, how long the mountains will last, none of these were forever. Like I said if the wanted the idea of eternal or forever they would have used the Greek word aidios then that would have been the end of the discussion.
 
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What Greek and Hebrew word are you using that you believe says forever or eternal?
I asked you questions several times now and you never answer.

Remember, you did say this Passage of Jonah would refute the idea that the Passages about Eternal life and Eternal punishment do not necessarily mean "eternal" in each instance it is used in the same sentence. Okay, since the Passage you mentioned about Jonah is in the OT, then please quote the Scripture of Jonah with the two olam words used together, with one of the olam words referring to eternity and the other olam referring to a time frame in the same sentence.

I quoted the verse repeatedly to you with the words that mean eternal and forever. If you think any of these do not mean "eternal" then show this by grammar and/or context.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Daniel 12:1-2 (WEB) At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Jude 1:7
(WEB) 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, having in the same way as these given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are shown as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:12-13 (WEB) 12 These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.

"FOREVER AND EVER" always means everlasting - OT and NT.

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The eternality of punishment is taught by Lord Jesus in various ways. Some of these are as follows:

Matthew 5:22-26 (WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is taught by Lord Jesus as another example of the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
 
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Jeff Saunders

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[Previous post continued]


Paul used the word “aionios” eleven [11] times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21

(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21

(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20

(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[14]Romans 16:26

(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, forever, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, book of Romans, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” Thus in this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18

(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;

(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1

(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16

(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8

(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7

(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.

(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21

(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21

(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23

(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …

1 Peter 1:25

(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/lit. unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10

(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11

(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] [lit: unto the eternity of eternities] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “unto the aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that I do not buy into the translation of aionios as eternal, you can cut and paste all day long but that changes nothing . Like I said in before I believe Origen, Gregory of Nyssa and many of the early church fathers over Augustine.
 
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Der Alte

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When the New Testament was written they used aionios which was a word that was used when the end was not in sight. They didn’t know how long something was going to last so aionios was used when they wanted something to be eternal they used the word aidios . When they translated the Hebrew scripture into Greek they translated olam to aionios. The very word used for the time Jonah spent in the fish , the time of the Aaron priesthood, how long the mountains will last, none of these were forever. Like I said if the wanted the idea of eternal or forever they would have used the Greek word aidios then that would have been the end of the discussion.
I am not interested in unsupported personal opinion. Please see Romans 1:20 and Romans 16:26 in my post #94 immediately above. Paul uses "aionios" and "aidios" synonymously.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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I asked you questions several times now and you never answer.

Remember, you did say this Passage of Jonah would refute the idea that the Passages about Eternal life and Eternal punishment do not necessarily mean "eternal" in each instance it is used in the same sentence. Okay, since the Passage you mentioned about Jonah is in the OT, then please quote the Scripture of Jonah with the two olam words used together, with one of the olam words referring to eternity and the other olam referring to a time frame in the same sentence.

I quoted the verse repeatedly to you with the words that mean eternal and forever. If you think any of these do not mean "eternal" then show this by grammar and/or context.

Matthew 25:46 (WEB) 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Daniel 12:1-2 (WEB) At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 punishing those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord

Jude 1:7
(WEB) 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, having in the same way as these given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are shown as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:12-13 (WEB) 12 These are hidden rocky reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you, shepherds who without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever.

"FOREVER AND EVER" always means everlasting - OT and NT.

Revelation 14:9-11 (WEB) 9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 (WEB) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB) 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

The eternality of punishment is taught by Lord Jesus in various ways. Some of these are as follows:

Matthew 5:22-26 (WEB)
25 Agree with your adversary quickly while you are with him on the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny.

Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything. So this place is forever.

Luke 12:57-59 (WEB)
57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 For when you are going with your adversary before the magistrate, try diligently on the way to be released from him, lest perhaps he drag you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will by no means get out of there, until you have paid the very last penny.

Again, Lord Jesus appears to be describing a place that the unrighteous will be cast into, and is eternal, because no one who is in that prison can pay anything.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is taught by Lord Jesus as another example of the finality and eternality of eternal punishment. See: Luke 16:19-31

As well, eternal punishment does not mean eternal non-existence, because the idea Lord Jesus conveys in His teachings, is that we should fear going into that place of eternal fire. In addition, those who are eternally punished, which is also called eternal death, is separation from the presence of God forever as this Passage indicates....

Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) 12 “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
Let me try this again , the Hebrew word used for the time Jonah spent in the fish is olam , the Greek translation of olam is aionios. Was Jonah in the fish forever? As for the two aionios it’s the same as if I were to say “ the tall man was standing in front of the tall skyscraper “ because tall was used for both the man and the skyscraper does that make them both the same height?
 
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Der Alte

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I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that I do not buy into the translation of aionios as eternal, you can cut and paste all day long but that changes nothing . Like I said in before I believe Origen, Gregory of Nyssa and many of the early church fathers over Augustine.
My post was NOT a cut and paste. You can close your eyes all you want. I did the word study of every occurrence of "aionios" in the New Testament. I listed every verse where the writer/speaker defined/ described aionios as eternal. Jesus did it 10 times. Do you believe Jesus? See my post #43, above.
I don't need to quote any ECF the NT proves that "aionios" means "eternal". Any other use is figurative.
Do you believe Origen. Here is how Origin described "aionios."
For the life he gives is eternal and never perishes, as, indeed, does the first life which comes from the well; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not to be taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it.
Origen. (1993). Commentary on the Gospel according to John Books 13–32. (T. P. Halton, Ed., R. E. Heine, Trans.) (Vol. 89, pp. 67–69). Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press.​
 
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