That's not what's happening.
Does a child of that age have the mature brains and ability to decide whether they need cancer treatment? Tonsillectomy? Appendectomy? Glasses? Vitamins?
Upvote
0
The Most Passionate Science Deniers Are Pro-Trans ‘Experts’ Who Profit From Carving Up Kids
- Thread starter HARK!
- Start date
Does a child of that age have the mature brains and ability to decide whether they need cancer treatment? Tonsillectomy? Appendectomy? Glasses? Vitamins?
- Sep 4, 2005
- 24,707
- 14,589
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
I would say that the topic, in general (regardless of the side and advocate comes down on) has a "science problem".
In that, while the psychiatric and psychological professions have been well aware of gender dysphoria for quite some time, some of the current things being discussed and tried have no long term data, so for either side to pretend to know (and accuse the other side of science denial) is putting the cart before the horse.
While it's not an exact apples to apples comparison, look at what took place with regards to ADHD, and you'll see there are some similarities.
One of the key ones being both the polarization with regards to the "best approach", along with the influx of parents (who may have been well meaning) assuming "that must be what my kid has because I noticed a few of the same things described, let's get them on the medical intervention as soon as possible!"
It ended up with one part of the population insisting that "progressive parenting is to blame...the kids just need a good spanking, look at me, I turned out alright!" and another part of the population throwing caution to the wind & racing to prematurely put their kids on Ritalin. For a majority of kids, neither of those answers were the correct one.
In that, while the psychiatric and psychological professions have been well aware of gender dysphoria for quite some time, some of the current things being discussed and tried have no long term data, so for either side to pretend to know (and accuse the other side of science denial) is putting the cart before the horse.
While it's not an exact apples to apples comparison, look at what took place with regards to ADHD, and you'll see there are some similarities.
One of the key ones being both the polarization with regards to the "best approach", along with the influx of parents (who may have been well meaning) assuming "that must be what my kid has because I noticed a few of the same things described, let's get them on the medical intervention as soon as possible!"
It ended up with one part of the population insisting that "progressive parenting is to blame...the kids just need a good spanking, look at me, I turned out alright!" and another part of the population throwing caution to the wind & racing to prematurely put their kids on Ritalin. For a majority of kids, neither of those answers were the correct one.
Upvote
0
So, a five year is capable of consent? Remember we are speaking of a child in kindergarten.
Some kindergartens don't want to go to school, but would rather just stay at home with their parents. Do they fully understand the impacts of lack of education at that age? Are we stating they are capable of making the decision at that point of life to NOT go to school ever? They aren't old enough to understand why they need a base education in life yet, and so those decisions are made for them.
I was afraid of needles at that age, and believe me I would have LOVED to avoid all vaccinations - among other types of shots. I had a number of operations because of a medical issue, and would have LOVED to make the decision NOT TOO at that age because it scared me. My last operation was in junior high, and I still didn't fully grasp WHY I had to do this. My parents made those decisions for me, because it was for my health that they were needed. I would have sworn at that point in my life that it wasn't needed, and I wouldn't regret it if I had that choice. Most DEFINATELY would have taken that 'consent' and ran with it. Problem is? It would have been a HUGE mistake. I couldn't have fully grasped why at that age, but I can fully understand WHY now. The impact on my life would have been horrible if it were up to me, and not left to them. This isn't a uncommon dynamic of childhood here either. Its actually quite normal.
A five year old doesn't understand the ramifications of transitioning. They are to young to fully grasp this. They need maturity in which they acquire with age. Its the same with any child. It's no different in teenage years. Most of us can look back at teenage years, and giggle at some of our decisions back then - that made so much sense at the time. Most of us can even laugh at some of the stuff we believed to be true, and find out later why the adults were giggling because we didn't get it back then. Yes, we found out. It happens to everyone. It's part of growing up.
We need to slow down, and fully understand the ramifications of this transition during these minor aged years. We are going to fast, and kids are getting hurt in the process. They should not be treated as casualties of a opinion war, especially when haven't even figured out how to help the ones that were harmed so far. We MUST be sure we know what is the proper approach to this, and if blockers or operations are truly needed in this part of life since it is such a HUGE step. We must look to find other avenues can help until that age of consent. I really fear what damage we will do we don't.
Then others are making this decision for them. Just like we said. You claimed it wasn't. Now you just admitted it was.
Think...
Well-Known Member
Nope.
They don't.
They are heavily influenced by all the biased adults around them that wish to increase the ranks of their agenda's armies.
There are literally countless victims of this brainwashing coming out of the woodwork today to tell their stories of being forced by the adults around them to submit and have their bodies permanently destroyed to fulfill what the selfish parents want for themselves, not for the sake of the children.
And that's just the ones who are speaking out publicly.
Think...
Well-Known Member
Yes, these parents need real help.
Maybe CPS should begin stepping in and intervening with these families who try to do this to children under a certain age and separating the child to stipulate extensive psych examinations to the parents and interviewing the children with professionals to decide if the child really has any need to go through such extreme procedures.
- Oct 29, 2017
- 55,169
- 8,129
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Private
Good luck getting Biden to sign off on that; when he's sending our money overseas to promote his agenda regarding homosexuality abroad.
Upvote
0
No I didn't. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. A parent works with the child to understand what problems they are experiencing and working out what solutions might be appropriate. Belly hurt? Appendicitis? Appendectomy!
The parent works out these solutions with the aid of doctors and other professionals. At least I can't recall the last time a mom cut out a kids appendix with her own pocket knife.
Do you not understand parenting at all?
My child starts expressing things that sound like gender dysphoria. "Daddy, I wish I were a boy." "Gee sweetie, why do you wish that?" Do you really think parents are dragging their kids to the doctor demanding that the doctor change the kid?
This is how it seems like you think reality goes:
- Parent: Change my boy to a girl
- Doctor: OK
- Timmy: But I don't want to be a girl
- Doctor: Shut up, Timmy. Yo daddy said you need to be girl, so you gonna be a girl
After probably months of the kid expressing things that would disconcerting to any parent, the parent takes the kid to a psychologist. After months, years, of counseling, the psychologist says, "yunno, I think this could be real. I'm referring you to a specialist."
After much time with a specialist, a decision is made. The child isn't forced; the parent isn't forced. Whatever the decision is, it is made after much deliberation and care. And much like you might make a decision to treat your kid for cancer, you make a decision about Gender Reaffirming Surgery (or whatever the acronym is this week.)
This is NOT random, arbitrary, just because, decision making.
Here's a story for you.
I have a child with multiple psychological diagnoses. From the time the child was 4, we had her in counseling. At one point we had to switch counselors because the counselor said she was out of her depth with our kid.
From about age 8, she expressed gender dysphoria. From age 10 to 20, she tried to commit suicide about twice a year. This meant she was committed to psych wards at least twice a year. Sometimes we didn't have a choice because the law where we live is such that a person that is a danger to themselves had to be committed. Didn't matter what the conditions were. Didn't matter that we felt that this time wasn't as big a deal as last time. (Maybe that's good; maybe that's bad. But, that's life.)
All along the way gender dysphoria was expressed. The thing for my spouse and me was that this was not a constant. It came and it went. Her behavior patterns were in no way masculine. It turns out that one of her diagnoses comes with a side of gender dysphoria. We knew, somewhat instinctively and later more explicitly, that this was a side effect of her more serious problems.
Now, almost in her mid-20s, she understands herself better. She still has those feelings, but she knows that she experiences them in times of stress and she knows the feelings will go away in time. She no longer buys binders since they are a waste of money if the feelings will go away.
Thank goodness for reaching that magical time of 25-26 when the human brain is more-or-less mature. She may actually out-live us as we expect our other children will. She will likely die as she was born, a female.
You may think that this is a happy ending. And, it is. But not because she's staying a female. It's because, at least in this regard, she's figured out how to navigate her emotions and employ learned coping mechanisms. It is likely that she will never have a regular job. But, she may yet be able to describe her life as fulfilling.
See, here's the thing: it could have gone the other way. Maybe she didn't have other diagnoses. Maybe she wasn't suicidal. Maybe she did have persistent masculine traits (whatever those might be). And maybe, the psychologist, psychiatrist, and gender experts would have said, "yup, she/he is a classic case".
It would have been hard. But, we'd have paid for our child to be happy if we were convinced it were necessary -- even given a risk that all of it were wrong.
Y'all know nothing of what it is like to walk this walk or you wouldn't say such ignorant things.
Upvote
0
- Jan 9, 2013
- 3,401
- 1,616
- 32
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Separated
- Politics
- US-Republican
Granted the wording does seem dramatic, but if you actually think about gender changes for kids that go onto the operating table to have things permanently removed from their body (if it's a male wanting to be a female) or unnaturally added (female trying to find some way to look like a male) the terminology of "carving up kids" is not far from the the truth, as intense as the wording might be."Carving Up Kids"
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Oct 29, 2017
- 55,169
- 8,129
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Private
"Hacking up children" might be a more appropriate expression.
Upvote
0
I'm sorry you and your family went through that. You guys are a perfect example on why we should not be transing the kids and making the decisions for them.
Your daughter had a severe mental illness. Sounds like more. A huge challenge for any parent who loves and cares for their child.
As you said her dysphoria was only a part of a larger problem. And you guys sought care for her.
What happened with her is a prime example on why transing the kids is just a bad idea. She survived. She made it through. With more than just a dysphoria issue. She is an adult now. What would have happened had she had th drugs and surgeries at the young age and came to the realization that it's a mental health issue?
Thank goodness she doesn't have to go through that. She was not ready and you would have made th decision for her. A HUGE mistake.
Your story is a classic example on why it should NOT be done.
Upvote
0
Kylie
Defeater of Illogic
I don't see many kids suffering emotional trauma because they aren't allowed to.
But in any case, we aren't talking about KIDS. You specifically said this was about chopping off BREASTS, and I don't know about you, but I don't see many eight year olds who need bras. We are talking about young people who have reached puberty. Why shouldn't they be allowed to decide what happens to their own bodies?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Kylie
Defeater of Illogic
Again, no one seems to be able to pay any attention to what I was responding to.
RJS was specifically talking about people with BREASTS.
Breasts do no generally develop until a person reaches PUBERTY. So no, we are NOT talking about people under the age of puberty.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Similar threads
