Spurgeon Preached Old Earth Creationism

driewerf said:

And how do you do that “Inquiring”? Do you map geological discontinuities? Do you apply mass spectroscopy to collected rock samples? Measure the radio activity of unstable isotopes?
Please tell, what does your Inquiry consists of?

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Mostly of discussions with you guys, who have supposedly done all that. I just ask questions and make alternative suggestions when your interpretations seem to differ from what the Bible tells us. When the Bible says something that seems to differ from your interpretation then I take the 'we do not know how God did it' position every time.

Estrid said:

No kind of flood could produce the
conditions that exist as anyone who
actually studied would know.
They'd also know that the biblical
flood could not possibly have happened.

What you suggest is not actually thinking,
as such.

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And, what you suggest is truly skeptical thinking, which fails to recognize the power of God.

doubtingmerle said:

When I had asked you if you thought dinosaurs had lived long before humans, you replied, "Long before." So you seems to agree that dinosaurs could have lived long before there was a single human.

Your dispute seems to be with how long "long before" is. Why is that an important issue for you? After all, informed scientists have an overwhelming consensus that the earth is many millions of years old. Why do you dispute it?

I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years here.

Regarding flood geology, no, that does not explain it. I answer that here,

If the flood buried the dinosaurs, why does every dinosaur fossil fall in layers that date over 60 million years ago, and every human fossil in layers that date under 2 million years ago?

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You can't explain it, so it didn't happen??? No thanks, I'm sticking with the Bible and still going with 'we don't know how God did it.'

Estrid said:

No kind of flood could produce the conditions that exist as anyone who actually studied would know.

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And how would they study that?

It seems to me a natural flood that would cover the earth in about five miles of water would have so many variables to work with, that it would render studying it impossible.

Estrid said:

They'd also know that the biblical flood could not possibly have happened.

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That's because it happened impossibly.

Estrid said:

What you suggest is not actually thinking, as such.

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If scientists had to think how the Flood occurred naturally, they'd die of old age trying to figure it out.

AV1611VET said:

If scientists had to think how the Flood occurred naturally, they'd die of old age trying to figure it out.

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Yes, I agree... upheaval and destruction on an unimaginable scale.

inquiring mind said:

Yes, it would be hard to dispute academia’s recognized strata-order evidence. It’s the interpretation that it took hundreds of million years to do it that is in question. Think of rapid sedimentary conditions… like a global flood.

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First, if the whole Earth was flooded, there would be no exposed land masses to be eroded, therefore there would be very little if any erosion, and therefore there would be very little sedimentation. The mere fact that there are thick deposits of sedimentary rock shows that there were exposed land masses that were being eroded at the time that these sedimentary rocks were being deposited.

Second, the sedimentary rocks of several of the geological systems (such as the Devonian, the Carboniferous and the Cretaceous) are more than 10,000 metres thick. It is impossible to deposit such thicknesses of rock during a flood lasting for less than a year. Conventional geological dating implies that a deposition rate of 200 metres per million years is rapid.

inquiring mind said:

Yes, I agree... upheaval and destruction on an unimaginable scale.

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The fossils in North Dakota reach 3 miles deep and include all the geologic periods. A well was drilled and found the following layers at these depths.

Tertiary Ft. Union Fm ..........................100 feet
Cretaceous Greenhorn Fm .......................4910 feet
Cretaceous Mowry Fm........................... 5370 feet
Cretaceous Inyan Kara Fm.......................5790 feet
Jurassic Rierdon Fm............................6690 feet
Triassic Spearfish Fm..........................7325 feet
Permian Opeche Fm..............................7740 feet
Pennsylvanian Amsden Fm........................7990 feet
Pennsylvanian Tyler Fm.........................8245 feet
Mississippian Otter Fm.........................8440 feet
Mississippian Kibbey Lm........................8780 feet
Mississippian Charles Fm.......................8945 feet
Mississippian Mission Canyon Fm................9775 feet
Mississippian Lodgepole Fm....................10255 feet
Devonian Bakken Fm............................11085 feet
Devonian Birdbear Fm..........................11340 feet
Devonian Duperow Fm...........................11422 feet
Devonian Souris River Fm......................11832 feet
Devonian Dawson Bay Fm........................12089 feet
Devonian Prairie Fm...........................12180 feet
Devonian Winnipegosis Grp.....................12310 feet
Silurian Interlake Fm.........................12539 feet
Ordovician Stonewall Fm.......................13250 feet
Ordovician Red River Dolomite.................13630 feet
Ordovician Winnipeg Grp.......................14210 feet
Ordovician Black Island Fm....................14355 feet
Cambrian Deadwood Fm..........................14445 feet
Precambrian...................................14945 feet

Source: The Entire Geologic Column in North Dakota

Were all 3 miles deposited in a flood? Why do the layers show signs of life throughout the column, with clear signs of animals burrowing through the layers. How can this happen in a raging flood?

And how can a flood sort things so clearly into distinct layers?

And how is it that we find sand dunes made of windblown sand in the middle of these deposits during a global flood upheaval of unimaginable scale?

Christians like Spurgeon and Sedgewick had no need to propose these fossils came from a flood. They had no need to refute the idea that dinosaurs lived in a period of time long ago. Telling Spurgeon there were dinosaurs before Gen 1:2 was like telling him there are penguins in Antarctica. So what? Maybe the Bible had no need to mention those dinos before Gen. 1:2 or those penguins too far to see from a mountain in Jerusalem.

But when Christians find the fossils support evolution, suddenly folks turn against the clear findings of science.

Astrophile said:

First, if the whole Earth was flooded, there would be no exposed land masses to be eroded, therefore there would be very little if any erosion, and therefore there would be very little sedimentation. The mere fact that there are thick deposits of sedimentary rock shows that there were exposed land masses that were being eroded at the time that these sedimentary rocks were being deposited.

Second, the sedimentary rocks of several of the geological systems (such as the Devonian, the Carboniferous and the Cretaceous) are more than 10,000 metres thick. It is impossible to deposit such thicknesses of rock during a flood lasting for less than a year. Conventional geological dating implies that a deposition rate of 200 metres per million years is rapid.

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As I said before, unimaginable upheaval and destruction. Exact details: non-existent.

inquiring mind said:

You can't explain it, so it didn't happen??? No thanks, I'm sticking with the Bible and still going with 'we don't know how God did

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I never said that.

I showed you where I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years-- here.

I showed you where I explain that flood geology does not explain the fossil record-- here,

Did you click either link? If so, why do you respond with flood geology that I already refuted?

One would think that inquiring minds would click a link that claims to refute what they just said. One would think inquiring minds would respond to that refutation, rather than ignore it.

doubtingmerle said:

I never said that.

I showed you where I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years-- here.

I showed you where I explain that flood geology does not explain the fossil record-- here,

Did you click either link? If so, why do you respond with flood geology that I already refuted?

One would think that inquiring minds would click a link that claims to refute what they just said. One would think inquiring minds would respond to that refutation, rather than ignore it.

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Academic cookie-cutter explanations lose my interest immediately when they contradict the Bible.

inquiring mind said:

Academic cookie-cutter explanations lose my interest immediately when they contradict the Bible.

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Contradict the Bible, or deny your infallible ability to
interpret what you hold to be God's word?

And "cookie cutter" is just blather.

Loss of interest is here mistaken for
" can't handle". But tact admission of
lack of education is a start on full admission.

inquiring mind said:

Academic cookie-cutter explanations lose my interest immediately when they contradict the Bible.

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Inquiring minds lose interest if someone presents academic explanations that contradict their views? That's quite unexpected.

Doubting Merles want to understand evidence that contradict their views.

doubtingmerle said:

The fossils in North Dakota reach 3 miles deep and include all the geologic periods. A well was drilled and found the following layers at these depths.

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Only three miles?

Maybe if they had gone another ten or so, they would have found ...

Numbers 16:32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

Estrid said:

And "cookie cutter" is just blather.

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How about that 31,441 foot well in Oklahoma?

Did they find the exact same thing as they did in North Dakota?

AV1611VET said:

Only three miles?

Maybe if they had gone another ten or so, they would have found ...

Numbers 16:32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

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That, my friend, is not an attempt to address the question I asked about the fossils.

The fossil record in North Dakota is 3 miles deep. It contains fossils from every period in the Geologic Column. Not only do we find fossils, but we find things like animal burrows throughout the layers. How did they get there? Were all those layers deposited in the flood? Or did God just make the earth with all those fossils of animals that never existed? Do you have an explanation for this?

Instead of discussing fossils, you would rather talk of Korah? Fine, let's talk about Korah. Korah told Moses "Ye take too much upon you." For that, the earth swallowed up Korah and 250 other men. All Korah did was express an opinion. Did he deserve this? See SAB: Numbers 16 .

doubtingmerle said:

That, my friend, is not an attempt to address the question I asked about the fossils.

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You just want something to deny.

Okay ... deny this explanation:

GOD CLEANED UP THE MESS FOR SANITARY AND SAFETY REASONS

That's His landfill scientists are rummaging around in.

Only ... unlike our modern landfills today ... God can bury His messes much much deeper.

AV1611VET said:

You just want something to deny.

Okay ... deny this explanation:

GOD CLEANED UP THE MESS FOR SANITARY AND SAFETY REASONS

That's His landfill scientists are rummaging around in.

Only ... unlike our modern landfills today ... God can bury His messes much much deeper.

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Again, no attempt to address the question. There are fossils buried 3 miles deep in North Dakota. Where did they come from?

inquiring mind said:

Academic cookie-cutter explanations lose my interest immediately when they contradict the Bible.

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Do you like this song where they brag about being closed minded?

I prefer questioning. See Dare to Question.

doubtingmerle said:

Again, no attempt to address the question. There are fossils buried 3 miles deep in North Dakota. Where did they come from?

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If what you say is so -- and I have no reason to say otherwise -- then either God put them there when He cleaned up (landfill), or they were covered over by some cataclysmic judgment on the earth (catastrophism).

There are other holes dug on the earth deeper than that.

Do they contain the same kinds of fossils, and in the same order?

doubtingmerle said:

Do you like this song where they brag about being closed minded?

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Does this sound like bragging to you?

When my cross is heavy, I shall not be moved,
when my cross is heavy, I shall not be moved;
like a tree planted by the water, I shall not be moved.

The church of God is marching, I shall not be moved,
the church of God is marching, I shall not be moved;
like a tree planted by the water, I shall not be moved.

Jesus is our captain, I shall not be moved,
Jesus is our captain, I shall not be moved;
like a tree planted by the water, I shall not be moved.

Fighting sin and Satan, I shall not be moved,
Fighting sin and Satan, I shall not be moved;
like a tree planted by the water, I shall not be moved.