I recently got back to the Faith due to a change of heart, only to be dissatisfied with the state of the Church in my home country, Serbia. A few cardinals in bishops clothing have been bringing in "reforms" to Divine Liturgy (readin the secret prayers aloud, shortening certain prayers, moving the Ikonostas, keeping the church doors open throughout the whole Liturgy, not having confession before taking communion). Because of this, I've recently stopped going to church. What am I to do about this? I have prayed to God to lead me to a place without these invetions, but I still haven't gotten my answer
Dissapointment in the SOC
- Thread starter AverageDude
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How is this a "practical innovation"? These practices violate the typikon. How am I fit to receive communion only by fasting on Wednesdays and friday? Isn't this a heretical, modernist practice?
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- Nov 16, 2016
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I thought the secret prayers were only "secret" because in a lot of churches you can't hear them easily. Is this not so? It's not as if you can't just read them in the service book anyway.
In any case, if you seek a jurisdiction where everything seems just right to you, you may lead yourself to a jurisdiction outside the Church.
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It's not about "everything seeming alright to me" it's about violating the thousand year old tradition gifted to us by St. Sava. Why is it that every time I bring up this question it's somehow my fault for rightfully worrying about this issue? Aren't we supposed to be loving and kind to each other, seeing as we are of the same Faith? But here you are, encouraging me to LEAVE THE CHURCH
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- Jan 26, 2007
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while I am not justifying it, but lots of stuff violates earlier stuff we do as far as our praxis is concerned. the question is, is the Church still within the canonical bounds of the Church? if so, that’s where the Eucharist is despite stuff like this.
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- Jan 26, 2007
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actually he’s not. what he is saying is that very well could happen, not encouraging it to happen.
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Platina
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We see already in the New Testament that there were problems in the Church, even among the leadership. This has always been and always will be the case, but problems with hierarchy and clergy don't invalidate Christ. He's still Risen, so why separate yourself from Him because of the problems of others?
As for the specific things you mentioned, most of those are issues where there is legitimate variety in the Church. In my experience, the "black fast" before Communion, for instance, is mostly a Serbian thing. It's not bad, but it's certainly not an Apostolically commanded practice or anything like that.
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I'm just concerned how all of this effects me, you know. As far as I know, we will be judge if we have commited heresy, or if we engaged in other's heresy. This is why this whole issue causes me much anxiety
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that’s more on your clergy than you. plus, it will be a far harsher encounter if you leave the Church or stop going or whatever.
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Platina
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Understandable, but really none of the things you mentioned are questions of heresy. I would advise finding a spiritual father you're comfortable with and who can guide you to focus on the one thing needful (Christ)!
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Yeah I reread what he said and he really did say that. I apoligize to everyone for being hot-headed
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@AverageDude Father Matt is right, I was not encouraging you to leave the OC, but simply saying that too much putting yourself in the driver's seat as far as praxis goes could lead you there.
None of us makes the sign of the Cross in the ancient way. And plenty of other point of praxis.
If you are serious about praxis in an Orthodox context, find a spiritual father and do as he advises you.
The decisions of your clergy are on them, not you.
None of us makes the sign of the Cross in the ancient way. And plenty of other point of praxis.
If you are serious about praxis in an Orthodox context, find a spiritual father and do as he advises you.
The decisions of your clergy are on them, not you.
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I'm sorry, old habits and a massive ego. I think you're right. I'm gonna pray to God so he can find me a man I could call my spiritual father
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- Aug 3, 2007
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Has salvation by grace (Ephesians 2:8-10) been emphasized to you?
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rusmeister
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And join the club.
Now I am physically in the Serbian Church, having been disappointed by both the Greek and Russian Churches. It’s been constant depression and despair, becoming a refugee hasn’t helped, except insofar as to get me out of the toxic atmosphere in Russia. (Plus I really no-kidding have to learn Serbian now.)
You know, Dori (from “Finding Nemo”) can actually be (a little) helpful.
Now I am physically in the Serbian Church, having been disappointed by both the Greek and Russian Churches. It’s been constant depression and despair, becoming a refugee hasn’t helped, except insofar as to get me out of the toxic atmosphere in Russia. (Plus I really no-kidding have to learn Serbian now.)
You know, Dori (from “Finding Nemo”) can actually be (a little) helpful.
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Cody J Dunbar
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I don't want to say too much because I haven't been orthodox that long and I know that the discussion between all of the jurisdictions, or whatever you want to call them, can get heated at times. We should all be helping one another rather than criticizing. Have you asked your priest why they do the things that are bothering you? It is probably worth discussing and bringing up your concerns.
I also wanted to drop this quote from St. Paisios in his work "On Our Times"
"If you want to help the Church, then try to mend your own ways, rather than others’. In straightening yourself out you straighten out a particle of the Church. If everyone were to do that then the Church would be in perfect order. But today’s people attend to everything under the sun, only not to themselves, because it’s easy to teach others, while mending one’s own ways requires effort."
I also wanted to drop this quote from St. Paisios in his work "On Our Times"
"If you want to help the Church, then try to mend your own ways, rather than others’. In straightening yourself out you straighten out a particle of the Church. If everyone were to do that then the Church would be in perfect order. But today’s people attend to everything under the sun, only not to themselves, because it’s easy to teach others, while mending one’s own ways requires effort."
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