Trinity proof verses

In John chapter 1 it says the Word was there in the beginning, Genesis is a good place to start.

I recall seeing it written: Father God creating the heavens and the earth, the Spirit of God hovering over the waters, and the Voice of God walking around in the garden during the cool of the day.

A good place to start, since most rebuttals to the Trinity tend to focus on the gospel of John.

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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John begins, "In the beginning was the Word...". But to understand the meaning of "the Word" it takes an outside reference. Both John and Paul use the same language in describing the concept. John says "all things were created through him..." while Paul says in Colossians "...he is before all things, and by him all things consist". That same language is used by Philo of Alexandria to describe what he refers to as "the Word" and "first-born Son of God". Notice that all of the gospels describe Jesus as "Son of God".

One of the most serious mistakes made by Oneness Pentecostals and the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they form their beliefs having never studied Philo so are unable to recognize the language used by John and Paul. You can see an encyclopedia entry of the teachings of Philo here:

Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Look over the table of contents for Section 11. That will get you on your way. Note that there is no known relationship between Philo and any of the apostles so no one knows precisely how they arrived at the commonality in their teachings.

HTacianas said:

John begins, "In the beginning was the Word...". But to understand the meaning of "the Word" it takes an outside reference. Both John and Paul use the same language in describing the concept. John says "all things were created through him..." while Paul says in Colossians "...he is before all things, and by him all things consist". That same language is used by Philo of Alexandria to describe what he refers to as "the Word" and "first-born Son of God". Notice that all of the gospels describe Jesus as "Son of God".
One of the most serious mistakes made by Oneness Pentecostals and the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they form their beliefs having never studied Philo so are unable to recognize the language used by John and Paul. You can see an encyclopedia entry of the teachings of Philo here:
Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Look over the table of contents for Section 11. That will get you on your way. Note that there is no known relationship between Philo and any of the apostles so no one knows precisely how they arrived at the commonality in their teachings.

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What many people either don’t know or seem to forget is, neither, John, Jesus nor any of the other key Christian figures in the N.T. were Greeks and Greek was not their first language. They were all Jews and their mother tongues were Hebrew and Aramaic and their faith history was Jewish.
So we must ask ourselves what was the Hebrew, Jewish, Old Testament view? Here from the Jewish Encyclopedia, part of the article on “Memra,” the Aramaic word for “word.” The Targums were Aramaic translations of the O.T., began during the Babylonian captivity about 700 BC.
In the full article there are at least eighty examples where the name of YHWH was replaced, in the Targums, with “memra.”, Word, When the Jew John said to his Jewish audience, “In the beginning was the Word.” he was not saying anything new.

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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The Johannine Comma is, in fact, an interpolation. John never wrote it, and no one before the late middle-ages was ever known to quote from it.

Maria Billingsley said:

Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

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You will find a different reading in the Septuagint. I don't know if they would pull that card, though.

Jonaitis said:

You will find a different reading in the Septuagint. I don't know if they would pull that card, though.

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Can you post that ? In English ?
Thanks.

Maria Billingsley said:

Can you post that ? In English ?
Thanks.

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"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him." - Isaiah 9:6 Brenton's Septuagint Translation

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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I usually use

Deut 6:4 "One God" (Mark 12:29-30) in "Three persons" Matt 28:19

Cockcrow said:

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later.

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I don't use that one since there is some debate over it - so I use the two above - However I am interested in the Greek manuscript you found from the 200's with that in it.

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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There's no perfect Trinity proof text that's going to magically make heretics stop being heretics. All that can be done is for you to strengthen your knowledge and understanding of Scripture, to hold fast to the Creeds, and to ground yourself in history and solid theology.

I learned a long time ago that you can't argue someone to truth. You can only bear witness to it, learn all you can, "give answer to the hope that is within you, with gentleness and respect". Have truth, have facts on your side. And pray, always pray.

-CryptoLutheran

Cockcrow said:

I posted above Cyprian quoted 1 John 5:7 in 250 AD.

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So you have a quote from Cyprian showing that rendering of 1 John 5?

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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Revelation 1:17-18

Cockcrow said:

I posted above Cyprian quoted 1 John 5:7 in 250 AD.

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ok - where can we find that?

In Genesis 1:26, God refers to Himself as “us” & “our”. In John 14, John 15, John 16, the Lord clearly refers to the Persons of God that we know as the Trinity. In John 1:1-3, the Son of God the Father is clearly God the Son which St. Paul echoes in Colossians 1:15-18.

In John 14:7-11, the Father & Son are explained by the Lord. The Lord introduced the Holy Spirit in John 14:15-18 & the Lord later affirms the Holy Spirit in John 15:26. Read John chapters 14-16 to be thorough of course.

There’s other places in the Bible if course.

Cockcrow said:

Looking for clear Trinity proof verses to use against oneness modalist trinity deniers who attack very heavily, I use 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17 but other than that I struggle to find a perfect verse to use that will silence the anti-trinity crowd. When you read the NT I see the trinity everywhere but as for a certain verse that can prove to the Oneness groups it is hard to find.

I know oneness groups attack 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." saying that it was added, but this is not true from my research that verse goes back to the 200's it was not added later. I believe the Bible is the perfect word of God without error. But Oneness crowd seems to have an answer for any verse I give it is difficult to prove the Trinity to these people

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A. The NT presents three separate divine agents, Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the work of salvation:

1) Father, Son and Holy Spirit:
a) at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
b) at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
c) in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14);

2) the Holy Spirit completing the work of the Father through the Son; i.e., the work of salvation (Acts 2:38-39, Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-13 (vv.4-6); Ephesians 1:3-14 (v.14), Ephesians 2:13-22 (v.18); 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2);

3) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15, vv. 5, 14-15).

B. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are bracketed together as the triune name of God:

1) Matthew 28:19 - this is the name (singular--not "names," plural) of the God with whom we enter into relationship; one God, in three persons;

2) 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 - Paul uses all three interchangeably;

3) 2 Corinthians 13:14; Revelation 1:4-5 - they are linked in prayer for and in pronouncement of divine blessing.

C. The NT shows the following set of relationships among the three:

1) The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Father in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43);

2) The Spirit is subject to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26);

3) The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, John 16:17, 14:26)

HTacianas said:

John begins, "In the beginning was the Word...".
But to understand the meaning of "the Word" it takes an outside reference.

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John was writing to Greeks. In Greek philosophy, Logos was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.
John opens his gospel with the staggering claim that the despised crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the Eternal Logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh to reveal God to us.