Experimental Evolution

Andre_b said:

What is wrong with you?!

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The world. I just live here for now.

Andre_b said:

So the kind is useless according to you.

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It's a useful word to describe things that aren't the same. It's neither a theological term nor a scientific one.

To “bring forth” is also useless.

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Sorry you think so. God specifically says nature brought forth life as He intended it to do. He uses nature for most things in this world.

So why even read that verse?

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I'd say that was a rather important truth.

Why even put the word kind when they are all the same things according to your theory.

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But they aren't. That's the point.

Everything is related.

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You think that you're the same person as your grandmother?

All it is is just a mix bag of non kinds.

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"A mix bag of non-kinds" seems like an oxymoron, doesn't it?

Remember when I said that it was an important fact that there are no precise boundaries between taxa? There's a good reason for that. If creationism were true, there would be no such imprecision.

The Barbarian said:

As you saw, the Bible said the "whole world" meant the Roman empire. So there is that.

Again, if you'd just be satisfied with having it God's way, this wouldn't be a problem for you.

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So therefore when God said he created the world he meant only the Roman Empire. Oh and when we will judge the whole world it’ll only be the Roman Empire. Nice logic

The Barbarian said:

That's what you keep stumbling over. Science requires no supernatural presuppositions or even a lack of them. So people of all faiths and even those of no faith at all, can do science.



When I presented the evidence, no one, even other creationists, expected you to acknowledge it. We all know you had to deny it.

As you see, even honest YE creationists admit there is very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory, even "gobs and gobs of it."

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You didn’t present evidence that an animal has turned into another type of animal. Stop being untruthful please. A drawing on paper that this happened isn’t real life evidence in nature.

The Barbarian said:

It's a useful word to describe things that aren't the same. It's neither a theological term nor a scientific one.



Sorry you think so. God specifically says nature brought forth life as He intended it to do. He uses nature for most things in this world.



I'd say that was a rather important truth.



But they aren't. That's the point.



You think that you're the same person as your grandmother?



"A mix bag of non-kinds" seems like an oxymoron, doesn't it?

Remember when I said that it was an important fact that there are no precise boundaries between taxa? There's a good reason for that. If creationism were true, there would be no such imprecision.

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Nope God said it’ll bring forth AFTER ITS KIND. Stop lying.

The Barbarian said:

It's a useful word to describe things that aren't the same. It's neither a theological term nor a scientific one.



Sorry you think so. God specifically says nature brought forth life as He intended it to do. He uses nature for most things in this world.



I'd say that was a rather important truth.



But they aren't. That's the point.



You think that you're the same person as your grandmother?



"A mix bag of non-kinds" seems like an oxymoron, doesn't it?

Remember when I said that it was an important fact that there are no precise boundaries between taxa? There's a good reason for that. If creationism were true, there would be no such imprecision.

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I know what tou said. You’re lying like atheist do. So clearly the do not bare false witness is not for you as the atheists think the same.

you teist the word bring forth AFTER ITS KIND, to your own atheistic lust to deny scriptures, and lie about it to pretend you follow scripture. That’s so terrible.

You say God didn’t create Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam, you say they came from chimps/apes. So there’s no point of continuing with a false witness. Good day.

Andre_b said:

I know what tou said. You’re lying like atheist do.

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I never say anything here that I don't believe to be true. And it's a bad idea to get angry and make accusations. I won't turn you in, but others might.

Andre_b said:

you teist the word bring forth AFTER ITS KIND, to your own atheistic lust to deny scriptures

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You merely substituted "reproduce" for "bring forth." Not a good idea. God's word is fine as it is.

Andre_b said:

You say God didn’t create Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam, you say they came from chimps/apes.

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All life came from the earth. You're just trying to convert an allegory into a literal history. And yes, God can do allegories regarding real people. He makes the rules; we don't.

Andre_b said:

Good day.

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You, too. You've learned a lot over our conversations. Go back to your Bible and read the things we've discussed. It would be beneficial to you.

Andre_b said:

So therefore when God said he created the world he meant only the Roman Empire.

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Different word used there. In Genesis, the word used is "tevel" (Hebrew for "whole world") while in Matthew it's "οἰκουμένῃ", a Koine Greek word referring to the Mediterranean area, the Roman Empire. It's the root of our word euchumenical.

Andre_b said:

Nope God said it’ll bring forth AFTER ITS KIND.

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No, it says the earth brought forth living things after their kind. Nothing about reproduction. "Reproduce" is man's attempt to change scripture to make it more acceptable to them.

Stop lying.

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Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

As you see, it's not about reproduction. Let it be his way, not man's way.

The Barbarian said:

No, it says the earth brought forth living things after their kind. Nothing about reproduction. "Reproduce" is man's attempt to change scripture to make it more acceptable to them.



Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

As you see, it's not about reproduction. Let it be his way, not man's way.

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it isn’t allegory here though, you claim it all is when there’s no suggestion that it is. It is provided ad historical information hence why all the details of the days and including the Ten Commandments reaffirmed this. You’re the one claiming it is without evidence.

so what does bring forth after its kind mean then if it doesn’t mean to reproduce it says the same thing for the seeds of plants. The problem is you are the one twisting this so that you don’t want to look foolish to the majority of “scientists” or people you know.

I haven’t learned anything from you in this discussion except how to twist the word and not read it exactly as it says. No where in the Bible does it imply this was all allegory. Even Jesus stated it as history.

Andre_b said:

it isn’t allegory here though, you claim it all is when there’s no suggestion that it is.

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The text itself says it is. It's absurd to imagine literal mornings and evenings with no sun to have them. So we know it's an allegory.

Andre_b said:

It is provided ad historical information hence why all the details of the days and including the Ten Commandments reaffirmed this.

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I know you would like it to be so, but the text itself is more convincing.

Andre_b said:

so what does bring forth after its kind

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It means that the "living thing" kind was produced by the earth. Creationists want to make "kind" into a plural and to add "reproduce" to the text. Because it would be more acceptable to them, thereby. But I still think God's word stands best as it is.

You're trying to find a way to justify altering the text, so that you don’t want to look foolish to the majority of creationists you know. But there is no way for you to do that.

Andre_b said:

I haven’t learned anything from you in this discussion except how to twist the word and not read it exactly as it says.

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You're already skilled at that. But you have learned a great deal about what evolution actually is, and how it works. And you now understand better how Christians see evolution.

The Barbarian said:

The text itself says it is. It's absurd to imagine literal mornings and evenings with no sun to have them. So we know it's an allegory.



I know you would like it to be so, but the text itself is more convincing.



It means that the "living thing" kind was produced by the earth. Creationists want to make "kind" into a plural and to add "reproduce" to the text. Because it would be more acceptable to them, thereby. But I still think God's word stands best as it is.

You're trying to find a way to justify altering the text, so that you don’t want to look foolish to the majority of creationists you know. But there is no way for you to do that.



You're already skilled at that. But you have learned a great deal about what evolution actually is, and how it works. And you now understand better how Christians see evolution.

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God is light and he already said in genesis 1 on the first day there was light and it was separated from the darkness you don’t need the sun with the light of God. Interesting how people willingly ignore this. There’s more to this as well but don’t think there’s a point of going further.

you’re the one altering the text you’re inventing your own sun analogy like 24 hours isn’t possible to exist without a sun. God made time bud, not the sun. The sun has helped humans to determine time sure and is there for other things as well, but stop pretending like it’s impossible.

Oh right God fooled everyone for thousands of years and it took atheists to figure out how everything was made correctly and the scriptures is just an allegory. Evening and morning is useless. What utter nonsense. All those details for absolutely nothing. All the genealogy for nothing just to amuse you and atheists.

Peter was right about end times scriptures scoffer.

The Barbarian said:

The text itself says it is. It's absurd to imagine literal mornings and evenings with no sun to have them. So we know it's an allegory.



I know you would like it to be so, but the text itself is more convincing.



It means that the "living thing" kind was produced by the earth. Creationists want to make "kind" into a plural and to add "reproduce" to the text. Because it would be more acceptable to them, thereby. But I still think God's word stands best as it is.

You're trying to find a way to justify altering the text, so that you don’t want to look foolish to the majority of creationists you know. But there is no way for you to do that.



You're already skilled at that. But you have learned a great deal about what evolution actually is, and how it works. And you now understand better how Christians see evolution.

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I haven’t learned anything of what you said regarding evolution . Interesting you need to boast about this. I knew all of what you claimed already. I was an atheist before studied it heavily . You haven’t provided any observable evidence except lines on paper connecting images and words None of which is actually observed to have ever happened in nature. Like a true atheist. No evidence for their religious beliefs.

Andre_b said:

God is light and he already said in genesis 1 on the first day there was light and it was separated from the darkness you don’t need the sun with the light of God.

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Sorry, that excuse won't work. "Morning" is not "when a big light is in the sky" It's when the sun rises in the east. And that's built into the Hebrew language.

Andre_b said:

you’re the one altering the text you’re inventing your own sun analogy like 24 hours isn’t possible to exist without a sun.

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That excuse won't work either. My point was that by definition mornings and evenings requires a sun. Pretending I said something else won't help you any more than pretending God said something else.

Andre_b said:

Oh right God fooled everyone for thousands of years and it took atheists to figure out how everything was made correctly and the scriptures is just an allegory.

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And that's another failed excuse. St. Augustine, about 1500 years ago, showed that Genesis 1 was not a literal history. And he was a devout Christian, the most respected Christian theologian of his time.

And you're pretending he never figured this out.

Andre_b said:

What utter nonsense.

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Afraid so. Remember when I suggested that you do some reading and learn about these things before telling us about them? Would have saved you some embarrassment.

Andre_b said:

Peter was right about end times scriptures scoffer.

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I don't think you're necessarily a scoffer at scripture. You just aren't very comfortable with it, unless you add a few things to it.

Andre_b said:

I haven’t learned anything of what you said regarding evolution

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That's possible, but at least you've been shown the facts. And I notice you didn't repeat some of those errors after that.

Andre_b said:

Interesting you need to boast about this.

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I'm just trying to help you learn about it.

Andre_b said:

You haven’t provided any observable evidence

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We realize you continue to deny the evidence. But it really doesn't matter. As you learned, even knowledgeable YE creationists have accepted the fact of evidence. AIG now admits the fact that new species and genera (and maybe sometimes familes) come from older ones. You saw how scientists who are YE creationists freely admit that there is "very good evidence for macroevoluitionary theory."

I don't think you're an atheist. I think you very much want to believe in God, but you've put your confidence in man's wisdom, instead of the word of God.

The Barbarian said:

Sorry, that excuse won't work. "Morning" is not "when a big light is in the sky" It's when the sun rises in the east. And that's built into the Hebrew language.



That excuse won't work either. My point was that by definition mornings and evenings requires a sun. Pretending I said something else won't help you any more than pretending God said something else.



And that's another failed excuse. St. Augustine, about 1500 years ago, showed that Genesis 1 was not a literal history. And he was a devout Christian, the most respected Christian theologian of his time.

And you're pretending he never figured this out.



Afraid so. Remember when I suggested that you do some reading and learn about these things before telling us about them? Would have saved you some embarrassment.



I don't think you're necessarily a scoffer at scripture. You just aren't very comfortable with it, unless you add a few things to it.

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Keep lying “that won’t work” pure willful ignorance. The 4 commandments states that it was 6 days rested the seventh. Clearly shows it doesn’t require a sun. You are fully adding to the text of genesis. If a day requires a sun then God lied in the 4th commandment for calling it days. No, it’s you the liar.

the days there was an allegory to you also. Why even say morning and evening then in the first day. What ignorance of the text says. There’s more verses claiming this also but they are all just lies for us apparently. Just to deceive us. We have a seven day week for no reason whatsoever, just a coincidence.

you’re the one adding to scriptures “days requires a sun”. No where to be found in scripture. Actually days in the 4th commandment proves you made it up. But whatever, follow your atheist friends.

Andre_b said:

Keep lying “that won’t work” pure willful ignorance.

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I'm just pointing out why those excuses won't work. Not because I say so; because they don't correspond to reality. And you already know that I don't say anything here that I don't believe to be true. First, God doesn't like people to lie. Second, it's not a safe thing to do. Eventually, people figure it out. Now, when one is repeatedly contradicted, one sometimes wants to simply dismiss it as lying. It might feel good at the time, but eventually that gets figured out, too. Just be careful about it. God likes the truth and so do most people here.

Andre_b said:

If a day requires a sun then God lied in the 4th commandment for calling it days. No, it’s you the liar.

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You've assumed that God can only use "yom" (the actual word) for a regular 24 hour day. But He uses it for "in my time", "always", "forever", and many other things in scripture. You're just selling God short, by insisting that He can't use figurative language in His Bible. And that's demonstrably wrong. And calling people "liars" when they disagree with your interpretation, really doesn't do you any good at all.

If you learn nothing else from this, remember that getting angry and verbally abusive is a very self-defeating thing to do.

The Barbarian said:

I'm just pointing out why those excuses won't work. Not because I say so; because they don't correspond to reality. And you already know that I don't say anything here that I don't believe to be true. First, God doesn't like people to lie. Second, it's not a safe thing to do. Eventually, people figure it out. Now, when one is repeatedly contradicted, one sometimes wants to simply dismiss it as lying. It might feel good at the time, but eventually that gets figured out, too. Just be careful about it. God likes the truth and so do most people here.



You've assumed that God can only use "yom" (the actual word) for a regular 24 hour day. But He uses it for "in my time", "always", "forever", and many other things in scripture. You're just selling God short, by insisting that He can't use figurative language in His Bible. And that's demonstrably wrong. And calling people "liars" when they disagree with your interpretation, really doesn't do you any good at all.

If you learn nothing else from this, remember that getting angry and verbally abusive is a very self-defeating thing to do.

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Nope God uses days for the commandment 6 days rested the seventh. You’re inventing a theology that evening and morning doesn’t mean a little day 24 hours. God added those specific details to be precise and look at the massacre people still do!

evening and morning, pretty specific and THE first day, then THE second day. It’s extremely specific. Then the 4th commandment literally says created in 6 days. There are zero reasons for any of those texts to be symbolic, it is not prophecy or paraboles or spiritual story etc.

you’re example is terrible and has nothing to do with the text. You are indeed addicted to the text needing to explain all of this . Absolutely astonishing.

The Barbarian said:

That's possible, but at least you've been shown the facts. And I notice you didn't repeat some of those errors after that.



I'm just trying to help you learn about it.



We realize you continue to deny the evidence. But it really doesn't matter. As you learned, even knowledgeable YE creationists have accepted the fact of evidence. AIG now admits the fact that new species and genera (and maybe sometimes familes) come from older ones. You saw how scientists who are YE creationists freely admit that there is "very good evidence for macroevoluitionary theory."

I don't think you're an atheist. I think you very much want to believe in God, but you've put your confidence in man's wisdom, instead of the word of God.

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You haven’t shown any fact. Just boasting you did. Lol you’re the one using man’s wisdom! What utter nonsense! You are the one believing in atheist darwinist evolution and probably the creation of earth. Literally no one practically believed in evolution until man came up with that fable… I think you’re just doing on purpose. You must be a shill or something.

clearly you aren’t humble. I stated that you’re boastful and double down on your boastful behaviour. YOU DID NOT TEACH ME ANYTHING ON THE THEORY. ZERO. So why are you trying to boast your ego on this? Trying to show like you’re so good to “teach me” when the majority of anyone I speak to already know everything that you teach because it’s literally the basics of the theory. It is NOT observable! You know it deep down, just don’t want to let go of it for some reason. Must be the people you’re around or something that you wouldn’t want to be on the minority, hence why it’s part of the last days along dozens of other very detailed specific signs. But whatever. Not even sure why I continue to talk to you with the ridiculous twisting even of the 4th commandment 100% direct in the text. YOU’RE the one that changes the direct meaning of the text. Just read the text and stop the atheistic and modern take on the scriptures as the end times ridiculous fad.

Andre_b said:

You haven’t shown any fact. Just boasting you did.

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Denial really won't help you now.

Andre_b said:

Lol you’re the one using man’s wisdom!

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You were the one who tried to insert "reproduce" into God's word where He said nothing like that. You think no one noticed?

Andre_b said:

YOU DID NOT TEACH ME ANYTHING ON THE THEORY. ZERO.

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You learned the scientific definition of biological evolution. You learned the difference between analogy and homology in anatomy. You learned that many creationists now admit the fact of speciation. You learned the four points of Darwinian theory. And more. Not bad for a first outing.

Andre_b said:

Trying to show like you’re so good to “teach me” when the majority of anyone I speak to already know everything that you teach because it’s literally the basics of the theory.

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You had no idea what the basics of the theory was until I showed you. Would you like me to go back and cite all the misconceptions you were telling us?

Andre_b said:

It is NOT observable!

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Well, let's test that assumption. Since you know everything, tell us which of Darwin's four points have not been verified by observation. What can you tell us? I'll be asking again, if you ignore the question.

Andre_b said:

Not even sure why I continue to talk to you

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Because you're struggling against His word and you want to find a way to justify it. But it's a futile effort. You won't find any peace in this until you accept it His way.

Andre_b said:

YOU’RE the one that changes the direct meaning of the text.

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And everyone has seen that your additions to His word are the problem here. C'mon.