Do you feel that changes in your generation, are taking you back to being a monkey, or forward?

Gottservant said:

Hi there,

So this is something we can easily and lightly discuss, right?

If the evidence was in a cocoon, you could tell, right? So what is it, now that the changes were in you already, as you say (it not being about individual, but the species)? Or has Evolution hit us dead on, in terms of selection pressures, leaving us nowhere to evolve further?

You see that this is really a simple question, of how luck you believe we were? I am not asking, how likely a particular Evolution would be, just how far in what direction have we travelled? The current species, you say is irrelevant to the individual?

Go really slow. Are we trending quickly back to being a monkey or fish? Or are we trending slowly to something different? However slightly? What would be necessary to simple keep the position we've got - to tread water, as they say - ?

I hope you have some answers!

Click to expand...

Woof!

I was never a monkey,etc.

Gott, serious question: why do never understand what people have told you about how you are wrong about evolution? Why do you refuse to acknowledge what people tell you?

Gottservant said:

Hi there,

So this is something we can easily and lightly discuss, right?

If the evidence was in a cocoon, you could tell, right? So what is it, now that the changes were in you already, as you say (it not being about individual, but the species)? Or has Evolution hit us dead on, in terms of selection pressures, leaving us nowhere to evolve further?

You see that this is really a simple question, of how luck you believe we were? I am not asking, how likely a particular Evolution would be, just how far in what direction have we travelled? The current species, you say is irrelevant to the individual?

Go really slow. Are we trending quickly back to being a monkey or fish? Or are we trending slowly to something different? However slightly? What would be necessary to simple keep the position we've got - to tread water, as they say - ?

I hope you have some answers!

Click to expand...

I think this generation is evidence that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is a lie.

Oompa Loompa said:

I think this generation is evidence that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is a lie.

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Well, they are the same species as the rest of us, so it's really not relevant to evolution.

But as an analogy they are surviving in the environment they found themselves in.

Are we really surprised that a bunch of kids raised by Gen X-ers turned out a little weird?

Gottservant said:

Hi there,

So this is something we can easily and lightly discuss, right?

If the evidence was in a cocoon, you could tell, right? So what is it, now that the changes were in you already, as you say (it not being about individual, but the species)? Or has Evolution hit us dead on, in terms of selection pressures, leaving us nowhere to evolve further?

You see that this is really a simple question, of how luck you believe we were? I am not asking, how likely a particular Evolution would be, just how far in what direction have we travelled? The current species, you say is irrelevant to the individual?

Go really slow. Are we trending quickly back to being a monkey or fish? Or are we trending slowly to something different? However slightly? What would be necessary to simple keep the position we've got - to tread water, as they say - ?

I hope you have some answers!

Click to expand...

If I was a tree, it would probably be a weeping willow.

Humans are separate from the animal kingdom, especially after the fall. Due to our destructive and creative tendencies/capacity, we probably should be compared more to demons or angels than monkeys and fish. Just sayin.

Oompa Loompa said:

I think this generation is evidence that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is a lie.

Click to expand...

Survival of the fittest has no bearing on sociological or societal stuff.

I blame the loss of MTV and the rise of Twitter and TikTok.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

I blame the loss of MTV and the rise of Twitter and TikTok.

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Yes, the trend of the deity people hold in their hands has multiplied, people do not need to return home to stay updated, it is everywhere.

Youtube probably replaced MTV, in terms of being able to listen to new music as it comes out, there's a trending feature and everything.

Michael Collum said:

Yes, the trend of the deity people hold in their hands has multiplied, people do not need to return home to stay updated, it is everywhere.

Youtube probably replaced MTV, in terms of being able to listen to new music as it comes out, there's a trending feature and everything.

Click to expand...

Social media and social clout have become their own sort of deity in the world, especially in the Anglosphere and it's.. it's not good.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Survival of the fittest has no bearing on sociological or societal stuff.

I blame the loss of MTV and the rise of Twitter and TikTok.

Click to expand...

I blame MTV and BET for a lot of the dumbing down that led to TikTok.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Gott, serious question: why do never understand what people have told you about how you are wrong about evolution? Why do you refuse to acknowledge what people tell you?

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I think Gott believes that if he accepts the obviousness of evolution his soul will be forever damned. The tradeoff is to make things up. I do give his credit for a wild imagination.

Gottservant said:

Hi there,

So this is something we can easily and lightly discuss, right?

If the evidence was in a cocoon, you could tell, right? So what is it, now that the changes were in you already, as you say (it not being about individual, but the species)? Or has Evolution hit us dead on, in terms of selection pressures, leaving us nowhere to evolve further?

You see that this is really a simple question, of how luck you believe we were? I am not asking, how likely a particular Evolution would be, just how far in what direction have we travelled? The current species, you say is irrelevant to the individual?

Go really slow. Are we trending quickly back to being a monkey or fish? Or are we trending slowly to something different? However slightly? What would be necessary to simple keep the position we've got - to tread water, as they say - ?

I hope you have some answers!

Click to expand...

Barring any selection pressures such as major asteroid impacts, super-volcanic eruptions or invasions of body snatchers, I imagine we'll hold our own as a species in our current state for quite some time.

Gottservant said:

Hi there,

So this is something we can easily and lightly discuss, right?

If the evidence was in a cocoon, you could tell, right? So what is it, now that the changes were in you already, as you say (it not being about individual, but the species)? Or has Evolution hit us dead on, in terms of selection pressures, leaving us nowhere to evolve further?

You see that this is really a simple question, of how luck you believe we were? I am not asking, how likely a particular Evolution would be, just how far in what direction have we travelled? The current species, you say is irrelevant to the individual?

Go really slow. Are we trending quickly back to being a monkey or fish? Or are we trending slowly to something different? However slightly? What would be necessary to simple keep the position we've got - to tread water, as they say - ?

I hope you have some answers!

Click to expand...

I see that no one has answered your question. I would be glad to answer in detail, but the broad answer is that modern culture is highly dysgenic meaning that it selects for negative traits. So humanity is rapidly becoming more stupid and immoral due to the evolutionary pressures of modern culture. I would be glad to discuss details or any question that you may have.

fschmidt said:

I see that no one has answered your question. I would be glad to answer in detail, but the broad answer is that modern culture is highly dysgenic meaning that it selects for negative traits. So humanity is rapidly becoming more stupid and immoral due to the evolutionary pressures of modern culture. I would be glad to discuss details or any question that you may have.

Click to expand...

That's not how evolution works. Like, at all.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

That's not how evolution works. Like, at all.

Click to expand...

This is an assertion without an argument, so there is nothing to respond to.

fschmidt said:

I see that no one has answered your question. I would be glad to answer in detail, but the broad answer is that modern culture is highly dysgenic meaning that it selects for negative traits. So humanity is rapidly becoming more stupid and immoral due to the evolutionary pressures of modern culture. I would be glad to discuss details or any question that you may have.

Click to expand...

You are describing the changes to people and society using evolution as a term and an analogy, but that is not the physical process called evolution as described by the Theory of Evolution.

For a process to evolutionary it needs to be a genetic trait that becomes more or less common in the population because of it's effect on the chances of survival and reproduction.

Trends in culture are not caused by genetic variation, but by social trends and upbringing.

Genetically people have been more or less genetically identical for the last thousand years.



In addition I also dispute your core premise that the modern world is in general more stupid and immoral. Despite the many problems we still have, in many places crime, violence and ignorance have gone down.

Shemjaza said:

You are describing the changes to people and society using evolution as a term and an analogy, but that is not the physical process called evolution as described by the Theory of Evolution.

Click to expand...

I am using evolution literally, not as an anology.

For a process to evolutionary it needs to be a genetic trait that becomes more or less common in the population because of it's effect on the chances of survival and reproduction.

Click to expand...

Yes

Trends in culture are not caused by genetic variation, but by social trends and upbringing.

Click to expand...

What does "trends in culture" mean? Human behavior is the result of both environment and genetics.

Genetically people have been more or less genetically identical for the last thousand years.

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No. One can just look at the physical differences of people from different parts of the world to see that there is plenty of variation in the human gene pool.

In addition I also dispute your core premise that the modern world is in general more stupid and immoral. Despite the many problems we still have, in many places crime, violence and ignorance have gone down.

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This I won't argue. If someone tells me that the sky is green or that water is dry, there is just no reasonable response.

fschmidt said:

I am using evolution literally, not as an anology.

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Then you are mistaken about the speed by which the process operates.

fschmidt said:

Yes

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Then explain why you think cultural variation over recent history could be effected by evolutionary pressures?

In the short term in our society there survival and reproduction rate is pretty high across the whole species.

fschmidt said:

What does "trends in culture" mean? Human behavior is the result of both environment and genetics.

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Cultural shifts are much, much faster than evolutionary variations that occur over many generations.

Religious conversions, attitudes towards the morality of social conventions, language trends... all rapid and social, not biological and genetic.

fschmidt said:

No. One can just look at the physical differences of people from different parts of the world to see that there is plenty of variation in the human gene pool.

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That's why "Just looking" isn't a scientific measure of variation.

Humans have an unusually small variation of genes compared to other animals... and more importantly environment, society and political structure that effects people.

fschmidt said:

This I won't argue. If someone tells me that the sky is green or that water is dry, there is just no reasonable response.

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You could try to support your assertions.

The issue is that the reporting and fear of crime has increased... even as society gets safer.

Shemjaza said:

Then you are mistaken about the speed by which the process [evolution] operates.

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At what speed does it operate? And what do you think I claimed?

Then explain why you think cultural variation over recent history could be effected by evolutionary pressures?

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When did I make this claim? Europeans peaked genetically around 1800 and have been slow decline since. The vast majority of the recent decline has been cultural, not genetic. But the genetic decline will continue for another century and by then the majority will be genetic. This has happened before for declining civilizations.

In the short term in our society there survival and reproduction rate is pretty high across the whole species.

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This is part of the problem - no natural selection.

Cultural shifts are much, much faster than evolutionary variations that occur over many generations.

Religious conversions, attitudes towards the morality of social conventions, language trends... all rapid and social, not biological and genetic.

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I agree. The issue is that genetic decline is much harder to reverse than culture decline, so genetic decline should be avoided at all costs. And it is happening now without any resistance.

That's why "Just looking" isn't a scientific measure of variation.

Humans have an unusually small variation of genes compared to other animals... and more importantly environment, society and political structure that effects people.

Click to expand...

This is a silly argument. I am not comparing human variation to animals. My point is that what you may consider to be small variations in genetics can have a big impact on human intelligence and can make the difference between a successful society and a failed society.

You could try to support your assertions.

The issue is that the reporting and fear of crime has increased... even as society gets safer.

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I won't support my assertions because the measurable signs of decay always lag behind behavioral decay which liberals ignore. For example the increased divorce rate. You will say it doesn't matter and I will tell you to read enough original source material to get a feel for what rising and declining cultures look like. For a great introduction to this topic, read the Old Testament.