DeSantis pushing Christian nationalism has Florida newspaper warning of white supremacy

childeye 2 said:

This is the question: How do you think the devil works in the world and works to cause evil that happens in the world?
This was my answer: I believe the spirit of the devil perpetuates darkness through a false imagery of god.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

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What is the false image of God? This verse just talks about Satan blinding men from the light of the gospel. I'm not seeing the false image of God here. I still don't know what you mean.

There is a true image of God and a false image of God. What is the false image you are talking about?

childeye 2 said:

Well, I'm not going to accept any premise that it's a "liberal" trap or "conservative" mischaracterization. But I do understand your intended sentiment and for what it's worth I would like to give you my view on the matter.

I think if I told someone they're sinful because I saw them as such, and as sinful as the carnal mind is, I can assume they will take that personally and be offended. I would then guess that their thought process would proceed to count me as a holier than thou type of person promoting a vengeful God. That is not what the Gospel is about. However, if I said the flesh is sinful, then they could not assume I think I'm better than they are and there is no condemnation.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

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You are right in that how we approach someone is important. Because we as believers are no better than anyone else. We just have decided to place our faith in Christ to cover our sinful flesh with his grace.

I'm no better than anyone. I too battle the
flesh. All the time. I'm always bombarded by the enemy and tempted. I sin, I stumble and I fall. But I lean on the fact that if I confess my sin he is faithful and just to forgive my sin and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

We cannot preach repentance if we can say nothing about what we have to repent of. And we cannot teach that Christ has come to save us if we cannot say what he is saving us from and saving us to.

rjs330 said:

So we agree that the battle against wickedness is two fold. Internal and external.

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No, I think we need to parse the semantics at play here. First of all 'wickedness' is a term in scripture that I personally view as meaning "wanting to believe bad about others". Wicked people therefore project their own wickedness onto others through negative prejudice.

This is a spiritual battle. We're battling against a spirit of darkness. If a soul is in darkness, the enemy already is internal corrupting the soul to wickedness through an unperceived lie being seen and believed upon as being true. However, if we're filled with Light, the enemy is external because he is seeking a way in. But the battle to not let the enemy in is still internal because it happens in the mind.

Example: In the book of Genesis, we are told that Cain's countenance had fallen, and God noticed this. God therefore knew that Cain was being attacked because God said sin lieth at the door:
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

In the above situation, the attack is external in that it comes from the enemy crouched outside the door who wants to be let in to turn Cain to wrath. But the battle is occurring in the mind which is internal, and the door that lets the enemy in, is the door that allows in what we believe to be true.

We strengthen our inner man to be able to fend off the attacks of the enemy both internal and external.

A good example is you are walking along the street, minding your own business and are approached by a prostitute. That is an external attack. It becomes an internal battle of your inner man who has been strengthened and can say no to the external attack.

The enemy knows your weakness at will attack it with external stimuli. That why we have to be on the look out. Do not be deceived for he comes like an angel of light.

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I've actually had this experience. I don't see being approached by a prostitute as an attack on my soul. I have three daughters, and when this prostitute approached and made a proposition to me, I felt sorry for this young lady who I perceived as trying to survive. I gave her the money she was requesting but told her politely that I couldn't do it. That to me was loving others as I would want to be loved.

A great example of this is the trans movement on kids. Schools teaching kids that boys can be girls. That's an external attack on children. Your kids. My kids. My response should not be, oh well, I will do nothing. The righteous response is to expose it as a work of darkness.

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I think a lot of this is misunderstood. I don't believe God would be telling some boy that they should be a girl, but I also suspect that it's a mischaracterization that schools are teaching kids that boys can be girls.

I am NOT going to do your research for you. If you care you will do your own. If not then I really don't care. Not my problem. I have far more important things to do .

rjs330 said:

What is the false image of God? This verse just talks about Satan blinding men from the light of the gospel. I'm not seeing the false image of God here. I still don't know what you mean.

There is a true image of God and a false image of God. What is the false image you are talking about?

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5 And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die. 6 For God knew that in whatever day ye should eat of it your eyes would be opened, and ye would be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Perhaps it's hard to see it because the serpent was subtle, but the above verse is where I see Satan (the serpent) introducing his tyrant image of god to Eve. In the above scripture Satan is suggesting to Eve that the most high god is a liar who is only saying you will die so as to keep you from having what he knows would make you his equal.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

To be clear, the god of this world is a false image that promotes distrust and cynicism in anyone who believes in it; Wherein everyone is out for themselves, or as it has been described, a dog eat dog, do it to them before they do it to you type of worldly mindset. Wickedness (wanting to think bad about others) projects itself onto others. The spirit of that mindset is built upon an image of the most high that would need to sacrifice those beneath him to preserve his station as the most high, the same tyrant image introduced by Satan of a most high god that would use deception and fear of death to keep others beneath himself.

However, in direct contrast to this false image presented by Satan in the garden, which rules in the worldly, Jesus is The True Image of God sent by the Most High that reveals a God Whose Love would sacrifice Himself through great suffering to save all others beneath Him. Those who believe in this True Image will receive the Holy Spirt and be transformed in their minds, and their souls will be filled with Light.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

FireDragon76 said:

MTG is a Christian nationalist in name and substance. Her kind of politics is emblematic of what the most extreme Christian nationalists desire for the United States.

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Indeed. But if she's the standard by which we should judge Christian Nationalists then I'm as worried about that about as much as I am about Jewish space lasers and being dragged off by the Gazpacho Police.

Hammster said:

Yes.

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If I were opposed to Christian Nationalism, then that's exactly what I'd want you to say.

DerSchweik said:

You just can't make this stuff up.

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I think you just did.

rjs330 said:

That still was no a theocracy. The Nazis were the ones that decided to go after the churches. Hitler hated Christianity because it was flabby and weak as opposed to the strength and power of Nazism. So again this is not a good example. The government pushed it's will upon the churches to conform to Nazism. It wasn't the churches pushing the Nazis to confirm to Christian beliefs and a theocracy.

Nazism is another good example of how secular government is far worse than any theocratical government has ever been.

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Hitler sadly wasn’t wrong about Christianity. A 1939 census of Germany had over 90% of citizens as Christians. All it took was a silver tongue telling them what they wanted to hear and the Christians were willing to throw Jews into gas chambers. If Christianity was this shining beacon in this dark world, Hitler’s movement would have been smothered in its first days when Hitler had no more power than a raving lunatic on a street corner. Instead, Hitler got them to control most of mainland Europe.

How did Christianity fail that bad? They had 90% of the population and a lot of the other 10% were targets of the Nazis such as Jews, Romanovs, and pagans. Why didn’t the Christians stop Hitler before he could start the Holocaust?

FireDragon76 said:

I know exactly who Rushdoony is. He has been very influential in the intellectual arm of American Evangelicalism. I've interacted with actual Christian reconstructionists in the past, and that's exactly what they believe.

Alot of non-Christians and Ex-Christians are more knowledgable about the intricacies of Christian theology and politics, than actual Christians. And the discussion in this thread confirms it.

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Lol, many on the left are more familiar with the nutty things some religious nut says than the rest of us. This proving they are a nut and don't actually represent anything 99% of Christians believe. I think it's because you guys just want to be fear mongers over some shadowy boogie man.

FireDragon76 said:

That doesn't follow. All it takes is a cadre of about 10-15 percent of a population to change the society: an aggressive and fervent minority to rig and gerrymander our politics. Especially when they have brokered their way into positions of power.

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And when you got the courts, especially the SCOTUS...

GreatLakes4Ever said:

Hitler sadly wasn’t wrong about Christianity. A 1939 census of Germany had over 90% of citizens as Christians. All it took was a silver tongue telling them what they wanted to hear and the Christians were willing to throw Jews into gas chambers. If Christianity was this shining beacon in this dark world, Hitler’s movement would have been smothered in its first days when Hitler had no more power than a raving lunatic on a street corner. Instead, Hitler got them to control most of mainland Europe.

How did Christianity fail that bad? They had 90% of the population and a lot of the other 10% were targets of the Nazis such as Jews, Romanovs, and pagans. Why didn’t the Christians stop Hitler before he could start the Holocaust?

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Topic for another thread. But I think we can safely say that many were Christians in name only. As James says faith without works is a dead faith.

childeye 2 said:

I've actually had this experience. I don't see being approached by a prostitute as an attack on my soul. I have three daughters, and when this prostitute approached and made a proposition to me, I felt sorry for this young lady who I perceived as trying to survive. I gave her the money she was requesting but told her politely that I couldn't do it. That to me was loving others as I would want to be loved.

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Thats because you have strengthened your mind as a believer. But it was still a satanic attack.

childeye 2 said:

I think a lot of this is misunderstood. I don't believe God would be telling some boy that they should be a girl, but I also suspect that it's a mischaracterization that schools are teaching kids that boys can be girls.

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No God wouldn't, but schools are. It's a proven fact.

rjs330 said:

Topic for another thread. But I think we can safely say that many were Christians in name only. As James says faith without works is a dead faith.

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They said they were Christians and here that is enough to consider them Christians. It is against forum rules to say otherwise. Christians we’re the runs that gave the Nazis the manpower to do their evil deeds. If Christianity is so great, why did so many of their followers fall for that hateful rhetoric?

Innsmuthbride said:

That's because we research this threat to our wellbeing.

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Even when I was a conservative Christian, I was wary of Rushdoony's theonomy, because I believe that people were inherently corrupt due to sin, and were therefore not in a position to coerce people based on religious ideologies. I have always detested that kind of authoritarian and uncomplicated religious ideology that sees religious figures as the only legitimate, final authority. I was also opposed to their merciless logic regarding "biblical" laws that would impose harsh punishments on what they deemed to be deviancy.