American People Don’t Care About January 6th Hearings

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Then he told his people to fight like hell, if you want to have a country. His people did what their president told them to do

You have no proper context here. "fight like hell" was in no way a call to violence. That phrase has been used by many politicians on both sides without being charged with inciting violence.

Trump in the speech several times called for peaceful protest which is protected last time I checked. This whole insurrection claim is laughable theatre.

Did some over zealous protestors break the law? Yes and in many cases most actions would be considered misdemeanor crimes except that this is tied to Trump so that elevated this to a national crisis and a threat to our national security.

This hearing is a complete joke with no due process and several testimonies have been debunked as false. There is no credibility to this farce of a hearing.
 
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"Population centers" dont vote. Individual people do.

I think you understand how the electoral college works although you probable don't like it.

What youre proposing is that various individuals should have their vote count more because they might not like how other individuals vote.

What I am proposing is we continue with our current system, with proper checks on who can actually LEGALLY vote .

This is not complicated unless one wants complications for the purpose of allowing fraud.
 
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durangodawood

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I think you understand how the electoral college works although you probable don't like it....
Correct. I dont like it. And I laid out principled reasons:
1. People vote, not places or other interest groups.
2. No ones vote should count more than anyone elses.

So we've engineered a sort of rural voter affirmative action plan because there's less of them and every interest group should count the same. Heck lets also do some black people vote-accounting so they count the same overall as white people. Oh and the gays want in too.

It all nonsense. One person, one equal vote.
 
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Correct. I dont like it. And I laid out principled reasons:
1. People vote, not places or other interest groups.
2. No ones vote should count more than anyone elses.

So we've engineered a sort of rural voter affirmative action plan because there's less of them and every interest group should count the same. Heck lets also do some black people vote-accounting so they count the same overall as white people. Oh and the gays want in too.

It all nonsense. One person, one equal vote.
Sounds like you may want to institute a constitutional convention to get this country in line with your thinking.
 
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durangodawood

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Sounds like you may want to institute a constitutional convention to get this country in line with your thinking.
First people need to get a sense of why we should change, what the principles are. We're not there yet.

If someone could provide specific arguments against those principles that I enumerated, then I might reconsider the whole thing. So far.... nothing.
 
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SimplyMe

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What I support is all legally eligible voters being allowed to vote once in each election.

I don't believe anyone disagrees with this. Though I will state we need to make voting easier -- there should be no hours long lines to wait in before voting. We need to require workers have adequate time off on election day to vote (perhaps even make it a federal holiday). It is interesting that employers can be required to give people time off to attend church services but there is no similar requirement when it comes to voting.

I support voter ID and in no way think that it is racists or a hindrance to vote, that claim is hogwash.

While I don't think Voter ID, in and of itself, is "racist," the way some states have attempted to implement it is racist. North Carolina's law was found by the courts to have been racist, with discussions by State legislators actually stating they crafted the law to prevent people from voting. In some Southern states (Mississippi comes to mind), they shut down several driver's license offices, largely in poor, minority, towns and shortened the hours that the driver's offices that remained opened -- making it much more difficult for people in these poor areas.

Yes, states that ensure people have good access to driver's license offices with convenient hours, providing low cost/free ID cards, it is not racist. OTOH, an argument can be made that it is not needed -- that voter ID does not change the amount of fraud that occurs. Again, I'm not against Voter ID (when done right) so have no interest in arguing this but, from what studies show us, it is more a "feel good" measure to score political points than an actual way of preventing voter fraud.

I support in person voting except in cases of disabilities, and laziness is not a disability that qualifies.

Sorry, I can't agree with this. How about someone who works two jobs and doesn't have the spare time on election day to vote? What about the elderly who, while not technically disabled, have a hard time waiting in line to vote (especially if that line is an hour or more)? What about military personnel, that often live in states other than where they are registered to vote, businessmen living overseas, etc. Even if you ban "mail in" voting, there are still plenty of groups that need to be allowed to vote by mail (including absentee ballots).

It also ignores states like Arizona, where mail in voting has been an option for roughly 20 years and where there is no significant evidence of extra fraud. Look at all the various "studies" that were authorized after the 2020 election. Again, I think "mail in" voting is something that is easy to make sound like lots of fraud occurs but those claims are not supported by any actual evidence.

Voting is a privilege as well as a right but bulk mailings of ballots is insane.

Again, this is apparently something Arizona (and other states) have been doing, with most states not having issues. I would say, particularly in today's Internet age, they likely should not be automatically sent but, in states that use mail-in voting, it should be easy for voters to confirm their identity and address, and request a ballot be mailed.

I would prefer paper ballots for obvious reasons.

I'm not quite sure, based on what some demagogues mean when they talk about "paper ballots," of what you mean by this. If you mean there should be a "paper trail," I absolutely agree. I think that either votes should be recorded on a paper ballot (which a machine can tabulate after the fact) or that, if you vote electronically, a paper ballot should be created -- with the voter given an opportunity (required) to ensure the vote was correctly recorded and that paper ballot put in a ballot box. It is an issue with voting machines in Texas, where votes are electronic only and, in past elections, there has been cases where the machine "changed" votes.

There has been confirmed and prosecuted cheating on both sides and anyone who denies that it happens is not very well informed.

Though, it is worth noting, the amount of "cheating" has been very small, something like .003% of ballots.

I believe the electoral college system was created to give equal voice to less populated states. For example the voter desires of NY can not easily be forced on the people of SC. It is just an equalizer so 2 or 3 population concentrated centers cannot rule the entire country.

No, the Electoral College system was founded due to slavery -- giving the slaves a "3/5ths vote" even though they couldn't vote. They idea of stating it helped small states was only an idea to help sell the Electoral College to the smaller Northern states.

The real "equalizer" is the Senate -- where every state has 2 Senators, meaning if an idea isn't supported by a majority of "states" that it will not become law. As others have pointed out, all the Electoral College does is make some citizens votes be worth more than others -- a voter in Wyoming's vote being worth almost twice as much as a voters in California.

There is no good reason not to have votes for President to be by popular vote. This is particularly true since the Electoral College doesn't really help give more attention to the smaller states, it instead makes the "swing states" the ones that get the attention. In a popular vote, candidates would need to pay attention to all states, since voters not showing up in any state, or switching their vote to the other candidate, could make a big difference in the vote. Currently, politicians don't pay attention to smaller states that are one sided, as they know -- even with low voter turnout or some few switching votes -- they will still win that state by a comfortable margin.
 
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DaisyDay

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Trump in the speech several times called for peaceful protest which is protected last time I checked.
Check again - he said it once, at the end, almost as an aside.

Several hours later, after it was clear that the coup would not succeed, he told them they were special, but it was time to go home.
 
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Aldebaran

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Check again - he said it once, at the end, almost as an aside.

Several hours later, after it was clear that the coup would not succeed, he told them they were special, but it was time to go home.

That may be how you want to frame it, but it doesn't reflect reality. It only reflects the propaganda narrative being pushed by Liz Cheney and her new friends on the primetime TV special.
 
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DaisyDay

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That may be how you want to frame it, but it doesn't reflect reality. It only reflects the propaganda narrative being pushed by Liz Cheney and her new friends on the primetime TV special.
This could easily be disproven, if such disproof exists, by pointing out where in the speech he calls for peaceful protest. For your convenience HERE is the transcript of his Jan 6 rally speech.

What I found (towards the middle, not at the end):
  • I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
This should be easy, just read it and quote it.
 
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Aldebaran

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I get the feeling that the typical Trump supporter would not want Trump to give another Jan 6 speech in 2024.
Does any disagree ?

What date would be better?
 
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Aldebaran

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Why exactly do you say that ? I would appreciate an answer

Well, you didn't seem to think Jan 6, 2024 was when Trump supporters would want him to make a speech. I was just wondering what date would be better in your opinion.
 
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loribee59

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DaisyDay

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I do~ those people didn't deserve to be jailed just because they peacefully protested the election. Plus the Capitol was paid by OUR tax money, so where did anyone feel we don't have the right to be there?

Just saw the latest news about the prisoners in the DC gulag:
BREAKING: 34 US Political Prisoners in DC Gulag Demand Transfer to Guantanamo Bay to Escape Intolerable Conditions in Heartbreaking Letter

No trials, no rights, no help, no access to lawyers.. this isn't America, this is CHINA!
Showboating. #10 on the list, Guy Reffitt, was charged last year and convicted in March of this year on all counts.
 
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