DeSantis pushing Christian nationalism has Florida newspaper warning of white supremacy

Hammster said:

No.

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Why is that excluded? In other words, how do we know what someone who supports Christian Nationalism (like yourself) actually proposes. You said we are to use the OT when formulating laws. How do we determine which ones?

Hammster said:

It really doesn’t.

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It really does.

However, does it show how things go when godless men rule?

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Results vary with secular government. Results are consistently bad with theocracies.

Bradskii said:

Let me make my position clear. I'll not accuse anyone of being a Christian Nationalist because the term is too indistinct. But...if someone calls themselves a CN or says they support it then I will ask them what that means to them and then treat their views accordingly.

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That seems refreshingly fair.

rjs330 said:

The body of Christ is the common good in those scriptures. The common good for the body of Christ. That's why the gifts are given.

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The body has a ministry (service) to all people. We aren't given gifts so we can be insular and exclusive. We are supposed to serve others with our collective gifts. We are sent into the world not to just talk about Christ but to be his "hands and feet" in the world.

rjs330 said:

It does not apply to the government. Paul told us what the government is supposed to do. Don't apply scripture to things it doesn't apply to. It creates false doctrine.

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Are you saying the government shouldn't seek the common good? No wonder we have problems. If you can't discern the implications of the body of Christ's work in the world, I won't be taking any guidance on hermeneutics from you. Thanks, at any rate.

NxNW said:

It really does.

Results vary with secular government. Results are consistently bad with theocracies.

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How many Christian theocracies have there been? When and where?

Landon Caeli said:

Don't fall for it! It's a trap.

Specific Democratic strategists created the term "MAGA", and now they've re-created "Christian Nationalism". This is not a term that any conservative should ever accept.

"Democratic leaders are now saying “MAGA” (Make America Great Again) where they would have once used “right wing” or “ultraconservative”. This appeared to be a strategic decision, not just a verbal tic or a tossed-off insult. And indeed, on Friday, the Washington Post reported that the rhetorical shift is the result of a six-month research project led by Biden adviser Anita Dunn and the Center for American Progress Action Fund:

The polling and focus group research by Hart Research and the Global Strategy Group found that “MAGA” was already viewed negatively by voters — more negatively than other phrases like “Trump Republicans.”
Why Both Sides Are Making the Term MAGA Great Again

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Christian nationalism is a real sociopolitical ideology studied by sociologists and political scientists, not partisan political rhetoric.

Christian nationalism - Wikipedia

rjs330 said:

How many Christian theocracies have there been? When and where?

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Geneva, Switzerland and several early American colonies were virtual theocracies where religious institutions had overwhelming sociopolitical power.

Hank77 said:

What happens when they are the majority in Congress?

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Hard to imagine that happening given the dwindling number of Christians in the US each year.

Will all public accommodation laws go out the window?

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You're asking me to consider the possibility of discrimination...when the people in power discriminate against me now. DEI initiatives are created for the purpose of discrimination against white men in the workplace (you won't find any that benefit us) and rhetoric around white privilege and lived experiences just devalues the work I do (it's automatically less than a POC) and devalues my opinions (see whitesplaining and mansplaining).

Given the possibility of maybe being discriminated against and the certainty of it now....it's actually a very easy choice.

You need to really raise the stakes here....make it sound as if they're planning my execution.

public hermit said:

The body has a ministry (service) to all people. We aren't given gifts so we can be insular and exclusive. We are supposed to serve others with our collective gifts. We are sent into the world not to just talk about Christ but to be his "hands and feet" in the world.

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Of course we are supposed to be his hands and feet. Ministering to others, kindness generosity. Jesus told us to as you well know. Love others as you love yourself.

I think you misunderstand. The scripture you used was for the gifts for the CHURCH. Not the world. But that doesn't mean we are not supposed to do anything for others. The common good in that passage is the Church.

The commands to help people regardless of their Christianity are clear. Jesus fed 5000, healed the sick, told us to give to anyone who asks. Give to the hungry, visit the sick and those in jail. Give drink to the thirsty. All of the that is absolutely what we as the body of Christ should be doing.

public hermit said:

Are you saying the government shouldn't seek the common good? No wonder we have problems. If you can't discern the implications of the body of Christ's work in the world, I won't be taking any guidance on hermeneutics from you. Thanks, at any rate.

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It depends on what is meant by the common good. The implications of the body of Christ is for us as the body to do what Christ asked us to do.

There is no command for the government to provide for the common good.

But that also doesn't mean as a member of society that if I believe the government should do something specific that I can't ask them to. That is an individual philosophy. Which I am fine with. Just so we are clear that it is not a Biblical mandate. The biblical mandates are for us as believers to be the church not for the government.

Hammster said:

Results are disastrous with secular rule. The last 100 years proves that.

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Link, please.

NxNW said:

Link, please.

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You're joking, right?

Hammster said:

I actually support Christian Reconstruction, a la R. J. Rushdoony, Gary North, etc. Christian Nationalism is a pejorative like “Christian” was in the first century. I’ll accept it, though it seems I disagree with most of the representations.

There are biblical principles to be found in scripture. All are extensions one way or another of the Ten Commandments. So there’s a lot to be derived from what we can learn throughout. However, none of this will happen until we have a majority of Christians. Each nation will deal with their laws as they see fit. So the first thing is evangelism. Then the reformation and reconstruction can occur. In the meantime, it behooves us to denounce clear unbiblical laws, and do our best to support those who support Christ.

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You haven't answered the question as to what biblical rules we will follow. How do you expect people to support a movement like Christian Nationalism when no-one is prepared to tell us what the specific aims are.

You are correct in suggesting it's often used as a perjorative because you have extremists like MTG saying that we should all move towards it. I will almost certainly reject anything someone like that suggests. And, truth be know, so will most reasonable Christians.

And do you honestly think it's helpful in any way to suggest that we use the OT in formulating laws? Seriously?

FireDragon76 said:

Geneva, Switzerland and several early American colonies were virtual theocracies where religious institutions had overwhelming sociopolitical power.

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So very few. And a long time ago. And people are very afraid right now? As if Christian Nationalism, which no one really knows what it is, is calling for a theocracy?

Just for discussion sake, secular governments have been far worse for society and far more dangerous through out history.

rjs330 said:

So very few. And a long time ago. And people are very afraid right now? As if Christian Nationalism, which no one really knows what it is, is calling for a theocracy?

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Christian nationalism was also present in Weimar, Germany, though they cut a deal with Nazis to hold power (to disastrous results).

Bradskii said:

You haven't answered the question as to what biblical rules we will follow. How do you expect people to support a movement like Christian Nationalism when no-one is prepared to tell us what the specific aims are.

You are correct in suggesting it's often used as a perjorative because you have extremists like MTG saying that we should all move towards it. I will almost certainly reject anything someone like that suggests. And, truth be know, so will most reasonable Christians.

And do you honestly think it's helpful in any way to suggest that we use the OT in formulating laws? Seriously?

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MTG is a Christian nationalist in name and substance. Her kind of politics is emblematic of what the most extreme Christian nationalists desire for the United States.

Ana the Ist said:

Hard to imagine that happening given the dwindling number of Christians in the US each year.

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That doesn't follow. All it takes is a cadre of about 10-15 percent of a population to change the society: an aggressive and fervent minority to rig and gerrymander our politics. Especially when they have brokered their way into positions of power.