“The alternative to law is not grace; it’s lawlessness.”

Clare73

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So the church can teach:
1989 "The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also
the sanctification and renewal of the interior man."
That's a 95% improvement over their position at the time of Martin Luther, but there is just one more thing to go.

In the NT, righteousness of justification and righteousness of sanctification are presented as different and separate operations of God, the former by faith, apart from obedience (Romans 3:28),
and the latter by the obedience of faith (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19) in the Christian life.

Biblically, the Greek word dikaiosis; i.e. justification, is simply
a sentence of acquittal from guilt by God as Judge,
a declaration, pronouncement of the sinner as righteous by faith,
a righteousness imputed (reckoned, credited, accounted) to him as it was to Abraham (Romans 4:1-11),

but the person at this point has no righteousness of sanctification which is imparted through obedience in the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).

EDIT: And speaking of improvement, there is that purgatory thing.
Just as works added to faith means that God's salvation alone is insufficient,
so also, purgatory added to the cleansing, purifying blood of Jesus Christ means that Christ's blood alone is insufficient.
Not to mention purgatory is not presented in the NT.
 
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Clare73

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In life. Are we required, even as believers, to keep the law?
As believers we are more than others required to keep the law of the land unless it involves personal sin.

In regard to the Decalogue, yes, we do so in loving our neighbor as ourselves.
You won't be violating the "thou shalt not's" if you are loving your neighbor as yourself.
 
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Hammster

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As believers we are more than others required to keep the law of the land unless it involves personal sin.

In regard to the Decalogue, yes, we do so in loving our neighbor as ourselves.
You won't be violating the "thou shalt not's" if you are loving your neighbor as yourself.
So grace isn’t the alternate to law, since we still must be obedient.
 
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Saint Steven

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I thought it would be interesting to discuss this comment by Rousas John Rushdoony. It might not even be controversial. What do you think?
"Danger, danger, Will Robinson!"

  1. Galatians 2:21
    I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

  2. Galatians 3:18
    For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

  3. Galatians 5:4
    You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 
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Saint Steven

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The old covenant of law is obsolete, outdated. (will disappear)

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 
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Saint Steven

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The law is the old guard.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
 
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Saint Steven

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With whom was the covenant of law made?

Deuteronomy 5:1-3
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
 
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Saint Steven

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Where are your tassels (and phylacteries), law-keepers?

Numbers 15:37-39 NIV
The Lord said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

Why?

Numbers 15:32-36 NIV
While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

WWJD?

Matthew 23:5 NIV
“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
 
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Saint Steven

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Compare:

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
 
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Saint Steven

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I thought it would be interesting to discuss this comment by Rousas John Rushdoony. It might not even be controversial. What do you think?
Perhaps you need to define what you mean by the term "law", thanks.
I would say the alternative to "law" is being led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18) The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

Assuming the Ten Commandments were"engraved in letters on stone", what does this tell us?
The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death which has no glory now.
Other than that, just peachy.

2 Corinthians 3:6-8 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
 
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Hammster

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The old covenant of law is obsolete, outdated. (will disappear)

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Are there laws in the new covenant?
 
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fhansen

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So grace isn’t the alternate to law, since we still must be obedient.
And that's a good point, but only if we consider grace to be God's favor, and no more. If, OTOH, we consider being "under grace" to mean that we have God's life in us, the Holy Spirit overcoming sin in us, then grace becomes the means to obedience.
 
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Hammster

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And that's a good point, but only if we coonsider grace to be God's favor, and no more. If, OTOH, we consider being "under grace" to mean that we have God's life in us, the Holy Spirit overcoming sin in us, then grace becomes the means to obedience.
Any ability and desire we have to obey is because of the Holy Spirit within us, which is the grace of God.
 
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fhansen

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Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

We can now accomplish the righteouness that we could not before, while under the law:
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:18-20
 
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fhansen

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Any ability and desire we have to obey is because of the Holy Spirit within us, which is the grace of God.
Yes, the only thing I'd add is that we can still resist that grace; we can walk away from it at any point, returning to the flesh.
 
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Clare73

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So grace isn’t the alternate to law, since we still must be obedient.
It is in salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) and in justification (Romans 3:28).
And in sanctification there is but one rule, "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Romans 13:10)
 
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fhansen

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I would say the alternative to "law" is being led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18) The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
Yes, the alternative to attempting to be righteous by law-keeping, keeping the law by the letter, is to be righteous by living by the Spirit, which the church has historically equated to being under grace.
 
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fhansen

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The TCs were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death which has no glory now.
As long as we understand that the problem wasnt with the law, but with us. The law was holy, righteous, good, and spiritual according to Rom 7, but was unable to give us the power to accomplish its righteoues and correct demands of man-that's what makes it obsolete. Only in union with God can authentic obedience be realized-and fallen man is born disunited from God. The law served/serves only to convict us of the sin that it could never overcome in us.
 
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Yes, the only thing I'd add is that we can still resist that grace; we can walk away from it at any point, returning to the flesh.
No, we cannot. We are given new hearts.
 
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