“The alternative to law is not grace; it’s lawlessness.”

fhansen

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We all have the Law written on our hearts.
Salvation by grace may be the opposite of trying to obtain salvation by the Law.
Yes,
I’d say that grace empowers us to fulfill the law, God’s way, now united with Him, by the Spirit and not by the letter,, and whether or not we’ve even heard the law. It’s the writing of His law on our hearts, the law that’s already there but dimmed, obscured, often unread and overwritten by our own law.
 
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Hammster

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I thought it would be interesting to discuss this comment by Rousas John Rushdoony. It might not even be controversial. What do you think?
I don’t think it’s controversial. ^_^
 
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Clare73

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I thought it would be interesting to discuss this comment by Rousas John Rushdoony. It might not even be controversial. What do you think?
"The alternative to law is not grace, but lawlessness" in what?

Salvation, justification, sanctification?

It's certainly not "lawlessness" in salvation or justification, for the law has nothing to do with either.
 
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fhansen

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The alternative to law is not grace, but lawlessness" in what?

Salvation, justification, sanctification?
Good questions.
It's certainly not "lawlessness" in salvation or justification, for the law has nothing to do with either.
And yet the sinful, the lawless, the unholy, won’t be seeing God. So there’s a a righteousness that’s attested to by the law in any case, and which fulfills the law’s requirements. Rom 3:21, Rom 8:4
 
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Clare73

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Good questions.
And yet the sinful, the lawless, the unholy, won’t be seeing God. So
there’s a a righteousness that’s attested to by the law in any case,
But not fulfilled by the law because the law was not given for righteousness, which has always been by faith, never by law-keeping. (Galatians 3:11-12).
The law was given to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Romans 3:20).
and which fulfills the law's requirement. Rom 3:21, Rom 8:4
And the righteousness which fulfills the law's requirement is the imputation of Christ's righteousness (Romans 4:1-11); i.e., justification, by faith apart from law-keeping (Romans 3:28).
 
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Hammster

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Here’s something to consider. We are required to keep the law. That requirement doesn’t go away just because of grace. So there’s either law, or lawlessness.
 
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fhansen

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But not fulfilled by the law because the law was not given for righteousness, which has always been by faith, never by law-keeping. (Galatians 3:11-12).
The law was given to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Romans 3:20)
The law tells us what righteousness "looks like" which is why it's said that the law attests to the righteousness now available to man through Christ. But it, the law, can only attest to it while being unable to the righteousness that only God can accomplish in man as we turn to Him in faith. To be under the law is to depend on ourselves, on our so called "righteousness". To be under grace is to depend on Him for it.
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9
And the righteousness which fulfills the law's requirement is the imputation of Christ's righteousness (Romans 4:1-11); i.e., justification, by faith apart from law-keeping (Romans 3:28).
Even if I agreed that righteousness or justice are strictly imputed or declared at justification, as if it consisted mainly of forgiveness of sin IOW, you still must acknowledge that the unholy, the unsanctified, the sinful, will not see God, enter heaven, etc
 
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Clare73

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The law tells us what righteousness "looks like" which is why it's said that the law attests to the righteousness now available to man through Christ. But it, the law, can only attest to it while being unable to the righteousness that only God can accomplish in man as we turn to Him in faith. To be under the law is to depend on ourselves, on our so called "righteousness". To be under grace is to depend on Him for it.
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9
Even if I agreed that righteousness or justice are strictly imputed or declared at justification, as if it consisted mainly of forgiveness of sin IOW, you still must acknowledge that the unholy, the unsanctified, the sinful, will not see God, enter heaven, etc
The NT presents the
righteousness of justification, by faith--a declaration, sentence of acquittal of guilt by the Judge, and the
righteousness of sanctification--through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).

Justification is a right(eous) standing before God; i.e., "not guilty."
Sanctification is an "infused/imparted" righteousness through obedience in the Holy Spirit, leading to holiness, for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

(I miss #1.)
 
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fhansen

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Here’s something to consider. We are required to keep the law. That requirement doesn’t go away just because of grace. So there’s either law, or lawlessness.
I agree. Grace is not a reprieve from the requirement for fulfilling the law, but the means to actually fulfilling it, finally. Faith opens the door to that life of grace as it opens the door to its Source, as it makes God the God of us again. As man was not created to be outside of intimate communion with God, neither was He created to sin. And those two truths are intrinsically related to each other.
 
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fhansen

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The NT presents the
righteousness of justification, by faith--a declaration, sentence of acquittal of guilt by the Judge, and the
righteousness of sanctification--through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).

Justification is a right(eous) standing before God; i.e., "not guilty."
Sanctification is an "infused/imparted" righteousness through obedience in the Holy Spirit, leading to holiness, for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
Bottom line regardless of how we wish to term it: faith provides the means to authentic righteousness/sanctity for man. And John tells us what righteousness is:

“The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.” 1 John 3:7-8

We know that unless one lives accordingly, unless they put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit, they don’t know God and won’t be seeing Him.
 
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Clare73

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The NT presents the
1) righteousness of justification, by faith--declaration of, sentence of acquittal of guilt by the Judge (Greek definition of dikaiosis/justification), and the
2) righteousness of sanctification--through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19).
Justification is a right(eous) standing before God; i.e., "not guilty."
Sanctification is an "infused/imparted" righteousness through obedience in the Holy Spirit, leading to holiness, for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
Bottom line regardless of how we wish to term it: faith provides the means to authentic righteousness/sanctity for man. And John tells us what righteousness is:
“The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.” 1 John 3:7-8
We know that unless one lives accordingly, unless they put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit, they don’t know God and won’t be seeing Him.
Is that agreement or disagreement with the NT's presentation of two kinds of righteousness?
 
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fhansen

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Is that agreement or disagreement with Scripture's presentation of two kinds of righteousness.
I disagree that justification is merely imputed.The historic understanding is that justification and sanctification are both part of the same process of making man holy which is scriptural anyway.

"The one who does what is right is righteous."

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."
Rom 2:13

That's about enough said. Only God can make man righteous; only God can justify man. Then we must walk in that seed of righteousness that's been implanted in us, in that light, and grow in it.

But at the end of the day we have to have both anyway, justification and sanctification, to enter heaven.
 
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I disagree that justification is merely imputed. The historic understanding is that justification and sanctification are both part of the same process of making man holy which is scriptural anyway. But at the end of the day we have to have both anyway to enter heaven.
Justification = righteousness, and
imputed = reckoned, credited, accounted.

That is precisely what is stated in Romans 4:2-3; Genesis 15:6.

Abraham was justified (Romans 4:2) by imputation/reckoning/crediting (Romans 4:3).

Justification = righteousness imputed/reckoned/credited/accounted, not imparted.
 
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Clare73

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ok? And John makes it clear what righteousness is and who
the righteous are: those who don't sin
Agreed. . .the justified (declared righteous) by faith are then sanctified (actually righteous) by obedience in the Holy Spirit.
 
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fhansen

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Agreed. . .the justified (declared righteous) by faith are then sanctified (actually righteous) by obedience in the Holy Spirit.
The righteous are those who don’t sin. And this is due to the gift of righteousness:

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
" Jer 31:33-34

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith."
Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22"

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:18-22]

"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14
 
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fhansen

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So the church can teach:

1989 "The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man."

 
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