Which church in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 is this?

Aldebaran

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I was just wondering, now that we have drag queens leading woke prayers in church, and then dancing around and having young children touch the drag queen's private area, which church in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation is being described? I have heard back in the 90s that the last days church would be the church of Laodocea, but this seems to be "somewhat" beyond that.
 

2PhiloVoid

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I was just wondering, now that we have drag queens leading woke prayers in church, and then dancing around and having young children touch the drag queen's private area, which church in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation is being described? I have heard back in the 90s that the last days church would be the church of Laodocea, but this seems to be "somewhat" beyond that.

Oh, I don't know. I could be completely off my rocker-- and not that I'm applauding any of this, mind you, but couldn't skewering someone via Iron Maiden in order to get him (or her) to recant be considered as just a smidge worse than this drag stuff? :rolleyes:
 
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Aldebaran

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Oh, I don't know. I could be completely off my rocker and not that I'm applauding, mine you, but couldn't skewering someone via Iron Maiden in order to get him (or her) to recant be considered to be just a smidge worse than this drag stuff? :rolleyes:

When this "drag stuff" involves having children about 5 years old touching the drag queens private area as a part of a church service, it's difficult to say for sure.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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When this "drag stuff" involves having children about 5 years old touching the drag queens private area as a part of a church service, it's difficult to say for sure.

Yeah, drag stuff in church is out there, I must admit, but even with that being the case I lean toward a more 'historicist' application of the 7 Churches. Due to this I also tend to think of the 2nd and 3rd churches of the seven as representing successive historical sections of the early and later middle ages "Church."

There's probably enough latitude in the meaning of the Laodicean church to accomodate the view of it as representing a time when we see some local churches having extra color parading up and down the isles (and aisles) and among the pews, all in the name of an elongated meaning of 'Love.' :sorry:
 
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Aldebaran

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Yeah, drag stuff in church is out there, I must admit, but even with that being the case I lean toward a more 'historicist' application of the 7 Churches. Due to this I also tend to think of the 2nd and 3rd churches of the seven as representing successive historical sections of the early and later middle ages "Church."

There's probably enough latitude in the meaning of the Laodicean church to accomodate the view of it as representing a time when we see some local churches having extra color parading up and down the isles and among the pews, all in the name of an elongated meaning of 'Love.' :sorry:

Well, I believe that most people (even 20 years ago) would never have imagined things getting to this point. We've always been led to believe that the church building was the one place where Christians would still their beliefs respected, even as the public square progressively pushed teachings and expressions of Christian faith further underground. Now that even churches themselves have begun appointing openly homosexual men (and then women) to pastoral positions, then conducting gay "marriage" ceremonies, and now what you see in that video (as if such things weren't bad enough being allowed in public schools) happening in church, what do you think the church will look like in another 20 years?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, I believe that most people (even 20 years ago) would never have imagined things getting to this point. We've always been led to believe that the church building was the one place where Christians would still their beliefs respected, even as the public square progressively pushed teachings and expressions of Christian faith further underground. Now that even churches themselves have begun appointing openly homosexual men (and then women) to pastoral positions, then conducting gay "marriage" ceremonies, and now what you see in that video (as if such things weren't bad enough being allowed in public schools) happening in church, what do you think the church will look like in another 20 years?

Yes, you're right and from what is shown in the video, it's a chronically bewildering time.

But keep in mind that denominations are splitting up into additional sectors over this, as they have been over the past couple of decades, and it's only some of these churches that are accomodating all of this, even in the fullest sense.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yes, you're right and from what is shown in the video, it's a chronically bewildering time.

But keep in mind that denominations are splitting up into additional sectors over this, as they have been over the past couple of decades, and it's only some of these churches that are accomodating all of this, even in the fullest sense.

Further information:
"The New York Post now reports the incident took place at Grace Church High School which celebrates LGBT Pride as an independent Episcopal school."

Here's from the New York Post link"
Students at ritzy NYC high school forced to attend drag show in church: report
Grace Church High School — a progressive independent Episcopal school in the East Village that charges over $59,000 for yearly tuition — invited renowned New York City drag queen Brita Filter to its sixth annual “Pride Chapel” event for a live performance on April 27.

The event was sponsored by the school and organized with the help of the students and faculty advisers in Spectrum — the high school’s LGBTQ+ support club.

Key Words:
Progressive
Episcopal
New York
 
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wonderkins

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That was up there with some of the most blasphemous trash I have ever seen go on in a church. I hope every Christian is absolutely horrified and offended at this.

I don't think it has anything to do with the seven churches of revelation though.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Further information:
"The New York Post now reports the incident took place at Grace Church High School which celebrates LGBT Pride as an independent Episcopal school."

Here's from the New York Post link"
Students at ritzy NYC high school forced to attend drag show in church: report
Grace Church High School — a progressive independent Episcopal school in the East Village that charges over $59,000 for yearly tuition — invited renowned New York City drag queen Brita Filter to its sixth annual “Pride Chapel” event for a live performance on April 27.

The event was sponsored by the school and organized with the help of the students and faculty advisers in Spectrum — the high school’s LGBTQ+ support club.

Key Words:
Progressive
Episcopal
New York

Another Key Word in this is ... Independent.
 
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Jamdoc

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I was just wondering, now that we have drag queens leading woke prayers in church, and then dancing around and having young children touch the drag queen's private area, which church in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation is being described? I have heard back in the 90s that the last days church would be the church of Laodocea, but this seems to be "somewhat" beyond that.

Here's the problem with your interpretation, is that you interpret the 7 churches as "church ages"

Understand brother, that it is not church ages, it is churches, the types of churches you see all over the world throughout all history and I believe most importantly, end times Churches.

Let's look at Revelation 2 for what I believe is this type of Church:

Revelation 2
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
This church becomes more active in the end, more vocal, they do more things than when in the past, they may have been a quiet congregation.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
These are your woke Churches, the kinds of Churches that are sometimes led by female pastors, who promote things like.. fornication, which would include forms of sexual perversion such as LGBT.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jesus teaches great tribulation only in one context, and it is end times, not the middle ages. It should be clear that it is NOT "church ages"

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
and the offer of grace to those who, regardless of the situation they find themselves in a church, can still be repenting, faithful Christians in the midst of heresy all around them. He doesn't tell them to turn their church around, He doesn't tell them to leave, He doesn't tell them any other burden, just to hold fast onto what they have, their salvation, their sanctification, their holiness, maybe by being salt and light in the midst of darkness they draw others to repent... but Jesus did not command them to take any action. Hold fast until He returns.


Now understand the reality. the 7 Churches all exist in the End times, and this is all end times relevant.

Church 1: Ephesus, a church who does good works, but has forgotten their primary function, preaching the gospel, worshiping God. Jesus threatens to remove their candlestick (spoiler alert, it is removed)
Church 2: Smyrna, a church that is faithful, but is persecuted, think underground church in Iran and Afghanistan, Jesus has only encouragement for them. Let's keep their candlestick.
Church 3: Pergamos, a church that compromises on its doctrine, also teaching fornication. This church Jesus threatens to come and fight against, with the sword from His mouth, in fact, that imagery is from Armageddon, Revelation 19... is this Church still around during Armageddon and has just sided with Antichrist? I'd say their candlestick is not going to stand.
Church 4: Thyatira, taught by women incorrect doctrine, promoting fornication, very overt and active. Thrown into great tribulation (so the world will still associate them with Christianity and persecute them), they die. I don't think their candlestick stands.
Church 5: Sardis, they profess the name of Christ, but.... they don't do anything else? Not entirely sure about this one, not a lot of detail is given on their doctrine, aside from the fact that they do not watch. Likely it is Churches that do not teach prophecy as one of their faults. Their candlestick, probably not standing.
Church 6: Philadelphia, glowing reports, just encouraged to keep doing what they're doing. Their candlestick stands.
Church 7: Laodicea, is this even a church? they call themselves a church but it seems like they have no dependency on God, maybe more of a social "church". Jesus rejects them. Safe to say their candlestick doesn't stand.

In all of these, there are faithful individual members, people saved, even if their church is filled with blasphemous heresy all up and down it.

There are 2 Churches, who Jesus does not rebuke, and only has encouragement for: Smyrna, the persecuted church, and Philadelphia, the non persecuted but faithful church.

Now about those candlesticks

Revelation 11:
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
So everyone thinks of the 2 witnesses as 2 old testament prophets, most specifically Moses and Elijah, which yes, they are, Zechariah 4 describes a scene of 2 olive trees, and God explains that they are 2 annointed ones that stood with the Lord of the whole Earth. Matthew 17, the Mount of Transfiguration account, Jesus stands next to Moses and Elijah. It couldn't be simpler to me who those two annointed ones are.

BUT
the two candlesticks are not Moses and Elijah
what do candlesticks represent?

Revelation 1
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
2 candlesticks/churches are also 2 witnesses of God. The other 5? doesn't look like it.
We are told there will be a falling away.

1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Apostate churches.
 
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Halbhh

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Yeah, drag stuff in church is out there, I must admit, but even with that being the case I lean toward a more 'historicist' application of the 7 Churches. Due to this I also tend to think of the 2nd and 3rd churches of the seven as representing successive historical sections of the early and later middle ages "Church."

There's probably enough latitude in the meaning of the Laodicean church to accomodate the view of it as representing a time when we see some local churches having extra color parading up and down the isles and among the pews, all in the name of an elongated meaning of 'Love.' :sorry:
Remember pizzagate?
 
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Jamdoc

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Which one was that? The Pepperoni, or the Pineapple and Chicken? ^_^

He means a conspiracy theory about a cabal of Democrats who performed ritual child sex sacrifices in the basement of a washington D.C. Pizza parlor (that didn't have a basement)
Some guy actually went to the Pizza parlor and held it up with a gun over that theory.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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He means a conspiracy theory about a cabal of Democrats who performed ritual child sex sacrifices in the basement of a washington D.C. Pizza parlor (that didn't have a basement)
Some guy actually went to the Pizza parlor and held it up with a gun over that theory.

Yes, I know.
 
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