God Will Not Justify The Wicked...

Jamdoc · Sep 26, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
All are sinners who have fallen short of the
glory of God. The wicked are defined differently.

Matthew 12

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

so are you defining the wicked as just those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost?

Mr. M · Sep 26, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Matthew 12

so are you defining the wicked as just those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost?

I did not. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not the topic.
I gave several examples in the OP#1
Those who shed innocent blood are wicked.
Those who add/subtract from the word of God are wicked.
Those who oppress and persecute the innocent, the righteous,
the stranger, the widow, the orphan.
God does not justify the wicked.

Jamdoc · Sep 26, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
I did not. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not the topic.
I gave several examples in the OP#1
Those who shed innocent blood are wicked.
Those who add/subtract from the word of God are wicked.
Those who oppress and persecute the innocent, the righteous,
the stranger, the widow, the orphan.
God does not justify the wicked.

Jesus said every manner of sin will be forgiven except that one.

so all those categories you designated, are things that Jesus' blood can pay for and be forgiven.

Mr. M · Sep 26, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Jesus said every manner of sin will be forgiven except that one.

so all those categories you designated, are things that Jesus' blood can pay for and be forgiven.

Does repentance play into that at all?
When the Lord returns, He is going to destroy
the wicked who wage war against Him. It is easy
according to the scriptures. The afflicted, the persecuted, the oppressed cry out to the God
who has promised to avenge their cause against
the ungodly oppressors, the violent and unmerciful.
The unrepentant. In the Bible, it is referred to as
Justice.

Jamdoc · Sep 26, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
Does repentance play into that at all?
When the Lord returns, He is going to destroy
the wicked who wage war against Him. It is easy
according to the scriptures. The afflicted, the persecuted, the oppressed cry out to the God
who has promised to avenge their cause against
the ungodly oppressors, the violent and unmerciful.
The unrepentant. In the Bible, it is referred to as
Justice.

Obviously repentance comes into it, but what I'm trying to say is Christ has justified many people who've done the things that you listed as wicked and God would not justify. They repent and are justified.

There was a Pharisee, named Saul, and he oppressed the disciples of Jesus, in Acts 8 he went house to house, hauling off Christians to prison, he was present at the stoning of Stephen and consented unto his death, a murderer, a persecutor, chief of all sinners, a wicked man, condemned by his own law he tried to keep.

... and Jesus forgave him, and he became a disciple of Jesus, and was used mightily by God.

Mr. M · Sep 26, 2022

Jamdoc said:
Obviously repentance comes into it, but what I'm trying to say is Christ has justified many people who've done the things that you listed as wicked and God would not justify. They repent and are justified.

There was a Pharisee, named Saul, and he oppressed the disciples of Jesus, in Acts 8 he went house to house, hauling off Christians to prison, he was present at the stoning of Stephen and consented unto his death, a murderer, a persecutor, chief of all sinners, a wicked man, condemned by his own law he tried to keep.

... and Jesus forgave him, and he became a disciple of Jesus, and was used mightily by God.

The scriptures quoted and the statements made
in the OP #1 should indicate that there are very specific ways that the wicked are described in the
scriptures, and will be destroyed at the judgment.
This is not about Saul, or any other example of people, such as David who repented after terrible acts and
received forgiveness. It is about cruel and violent people who are punished on behalf of those whom they oppressed as the promised justice is served.
Hope that clarifies the topic for you.

Jamdoc · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
The scriptures quoted and the statements made
in the OP #1 should indicate that there are very specific ways that the wicked are described in the
scriptures, and will be destroyed at the judgment.
This is not about Saul, or any other example of people, such as David who repented after terrible acts and
received forgiveness. It is about cruel and violent people who are punished on behalf of those whom they oppressed as the promised justice is served.
Hope that clarifies the topic for you.

Right but the way you worded it made it sound like these sins were unforgivable, could not be repented of, and Jesus couldn't justify them.

harry rotter · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
...and the scriptures cannot be broken.

Sin is a sin. But the severity of sin depends on what century the action is done. And who and why is doing the action. The polygamy was not an awful thing for Kings of Israel and Abraham. Why? The world is compromise (forced and temporary) between Good and Evil, between Life and Death.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
Except the wicked. They are destroyed.

Ah ha, you are an Annihilationist.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
God does not justify the wicked.

Is it wickedness to be ungodly?

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Ah ha, you are an Annihilationist.

I am a saint and a lover of truth. If you cannot
live with the destruction of cruel and violent men,
that is your carnal spirit of sympathy speaking, not
the Word of Truth. The idea that the God of Love
cannot hate the ones who abuse the weak, the poor,
the oppressed, the persecuted saint, widows and
orphans. Where is the God of Justice? The words of
the prophets describe this well.
Malachi 2:17
You have wearied the Lord with your words;
Yet you say,
“In what way have we wearied Him?”
In that you say,
“Everyone who does evil
Is good in the sight of the Lord,
And He delights in them,”
Or, “Where is the God of justice?”

God is an annihilationist.
Exodus 32:10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation.

I am fascinated by carnal minded people who seem
to have issues with the destruction of flesh.
Isaiah 40:
6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Why do you think Jesus said this, o apex of
knowledge and giver of labels?
(The Truth is in the signature)

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Is it wickedness to be ungodly?

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Since justification is by faith, ungodly isn't the
issue, we are all sinners saved by grace.
Is it wickedness to be a cruel, violent oppressor
of men, women, children? That is the OP, and that
is the position that God takes throughout the
"Law and the Prophets". Yikes!

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Is it wickedness to be ungodly?

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

If you have not read this essay, you may be
forsaking your own mercy.
Justice For The Poor-Reforming the Traditional View of Salvation

Clare73 · Sep 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Ah ha, you are an Annihilationist.

Apollumi and olethros do not mean loss of being, but loss of well-being, as seen in
Matthew 2:13, Matthew 8:25, Matthew 9:17, Luke 5:37, Luke 15:4; John 6:27; 1 Peter 1:7; and
1 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 10:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:3; Hebrews 11:28, respectively.

FineLinen · Sep 27, 2022

Clare73 said:
Apollumi and olethros do not mean loss of being, but loss of well-being.

The koine for destruction is both apollumi and olethros. In both cases there certainly is the meaning of loss, including the destruction of the flesh by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed.

FineLinen · Sep 27, 2022

FineLinen said:
The koine for destruction is both apollumi and olethros. In both cases there certainly is the meaning of loss, including the destruction of the flesh by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed.

Olethron Destruction =

Marvin R. Vincent: Note on ‘eternal destruction’ (Olethron Aionion) – Mercy Upon All

FineLinen · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
There are very specific ways that the wicked are described in the scriptures, and will be destroyed at the judgment.

M.M.: The Lord is the Beginning & the Ending of the all. Everything begins within Him, everything ends within Him. Our Yah in His essence is Fire, the Lake of Divinity radiates with the same essence of theion & theioo.

BNR32FAN · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
...and the scriptures cannot be broken.
Exodus 23:
6 You shall not pervert the judgment of your poor in his dispute.
7 Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous.
For I will not justify the wicked.
8 And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts
the words of the righteous.
9 Also you shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the heart of a stranger,
because you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Those who shed innocent blood are wicked.
Those who add/subtract from the word of God are wicked.
Those who oppress and persecute the innocent, the righteous,
the stranger, the widow, the orphan are wicked.
God does not justify the wicked.
Acts 2:
37 Now when they heard, they were convicted in the heart,
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children,
and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.

Psalm 50:
16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou should take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hate instruction, and cast my words behind thee.

Psalm 59:5 Thou therefore, O Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel,
awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors.
Selah.

I think Paul could’ve been considered wicked in his persecution of the early Christians.

Clare73 · Sep 27, 2022

FineLinen said:
The koine for destruction is both apollumi and olethros. In both cases there certainly is the meaning of loss, including the destruction of the flesh by which the lusts of the flesh are subdued and destroyed.

Which in neither case is annihilation of the spirit, as seen in the Scriptures presented.

BNR32FAN · Sep 27, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
Does repentance play into that at all?
When the Lord returns, He is going to destroy
the wicked who wage war against Him. It is easy
according to the scriptures. The afflicted, the persecuted, the oppressed cry out to the God
who has promised to avenge their cause against
the ungodly oppressors, the violent and unmerciful.
The unrepentant. In the Bible, it is referred to as
Justice.

But He will destroy countless others who don’t believe in Christ who haven’t harmed anyone. I think Jamdoc has a valid point that all sins can be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God will destroy many people who have not harmed others but repeatedly refuse to repent and believe this would not put them into the category of the wicked that you have defined here.

God Will Not Justify The Wicked...

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