Honest question: do parasites evolve, if their hosts do?

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2022

Gottservant said:
Yes, but one is distinct from the other.

That's because one is a parasite, and the other is its host.

Gottservant said:
You don't see that identifying which has preeminence, is effectual to the Evolution of both?

Whether one evolves faster -- or before -- the other, it is still called "evolution".

Gottservant · Sep 26, 2022

AV1611VET said:
That's because one is a parasite, and the other is its host.Whether one evolves faster -- or before -- the other, it is still called "evolution".

Adam, would disagree.

When you name an animal, you name it by its species.

When you name an animal's (or creature's) action, you name it by its purpose.

Well, a parasite has a different purpose to a host (you have to name it differently)?

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2022

Gottservant said:
Adam, would disagree.

If so, it's because there were no parasites before the Fall.

Gottservant said:
When you name an animal, you name it by its species.

Adam didn't though.

He just gave them "generic names."

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Scientists came along later and gave them their scientific designations.

Gottservant said:
When you name an animal's (or creature's) action, you name it by its purpose.

Who names animal's actions?

Canis lupus, for example, means "grey wolf" and has nothing to do with the wolf's actions.

Gottservant said:
Well, a parasite has a different purpose to a host (you have to name it differently)?

As far as purpose is concerned, don't both the parasite and its host have their own?

That is, to survive and, in many cases, to serve mankind?

If I'm driving a yoke of oxen, and they have cooties on them (or in them), what's that have to do with anything as far as evolution is concerned?

Kylie · Sep 26, 2022

Gottservant said:
Yes, but one is distinct from the other.

No they are not. Both are the same thing.

Evolution is just organisms becoming (over many generations) better suited to the conditions they find themselves in. That means that the parasites will be better suited to surviving inside the host (meaning they will evolve ways of being better able to inhabit the hosts), and the hosts will be better suited to surviving among the parasites (which means they will evolve better ways of fighting off the parasites).

Gottservant · Sep 26, 2022

AV1611VET said:
If so, it's because there were no parasites before the Fall.Adam didn't though.

He just gave them "generic names." [...]

He called it as he saw it, to me that is calling a species a species.

[...]Who names animal's actions?

Canis lupus, for example, means "grey wolf" and has nothing to do with the wolf's actions.As far as purpose is concerned, don't both the parasite and its host have their own?

Action is the next logic step from type. Type, action, habitat.

That is, to survive and, in many cases, to serve mankind?

If I'm driving a yoke of oxen, and they have cooties on them (or in them), what's that have to do with anything as far as evolution is concerned?

It all depends on the angle you give it: does the parasite cause a rash, and then infection, or does it create a (good) gut bacteria balance that is good for the host?

What you can't have, is a host rubbing up against other hosts to pass on the parasite, when it's not good for the species - that will be shunned! Likewise the parasite eating until the host is dead, won't survive? One is a social consequence, the other is a practical consequence - again, different things!

Gottservant · Sep 26, 2022

Kylie said:
No they are not. Both are the same thing.

Evolution is just organisms becoming (over many generations) better suited to the conditions they find themselves in. That means that the parasites will be better suited to surviving inside the host (meaning they will evolve ways of being better able to inhabit the hosts), and the hosts will be better suited to surviving among the parasites (which means they will evolve better ways of fighting off the parasites).

Yet because you say they are the same thing, I honestly can't understand you.

I read the whole thing, and it sounded to me, like you accuse me of (word salad)?

If you don't call two different things, two different things its confusing.

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2022

Gottservant said:
What you can't have, is a host rubbing up against other hosts to pass on the parasite, when it's not good for the species - that will be shunned! Likewise the parasite eating until the host is dead, won't survive? One is a social consequence, the other is a practical consequence - again, different things!

True.

Parasites can be both good and bad: beneficial and detrimental.

Shemjaza · Sep 27, 2022

AV1611VET said:
True.

Parasites can be both good and bad: beneficial and detrimental.

I'm pretty sure that a beneficial parasite is just called a symbiote.

Kylie · Sep 27, 2022

Gottservant said:
Yet because you say they are the same thing, I honestly can't understand you.

I read the whole thing, and it sounded to me, like you accuse me of (word salad)?

If you don't call two different things, two different things its confusing.

They are NOT two different things.

In each case the organisms are evolving to become better suited to the environment in which they live and the pressures which they face.

Both host and parasite face these challenges. The host and parasite may live in different environments, and they may face different pressures, but they still have to deal with them.

Gottservant · Sep 28, 2022

Kylie said:
They are NOT two different things.

In each case the organisms are evolving to become better suited to the environment in which they live and the pressures which they face.

Both host and parasite face these challenges. The host and parasite may live in different environments, and they may face different pressures, but they still have to deal with them.

Wrong.

The scale of each creature, in this example, is different.

You have no comprehension of varying scale, sorry.

Kylie · Sep 29, 2022

Gottservant said:
Wrong.

The scale of each creature, in this example, is different.

You have no comprehension of varying scale, sorry.

You don't understand evolution at all, so you have no basis for telling me that I am wrong.

Kylie · Oct 2, 2022

The happy Objectivist · Oct 3, 2022

LeafByNiggle said:
Just to fill in a little more, the reason we can estimate the time when they diverged is because apes are covered with hair and so their lice travel freely around the ape body. But humans have thick hair in distinct areas - namely the head and the pubic area. And because of that separation, lice that live in the head hair are genetically different from lice that live in human pubic hair. By measuring the number of mutations between the two species of lice we can estimate how long the two populations have been isolated from each other, and that would be the point at which humans lost a good portion of their body hair.

Wow! That is really fascinating. Thank you. I've never heard or thought about that before. I've never thought about there being separate habitats on a human body leading to the evolution of a new species of lice. I wonder why gaining a bigger brain and losing hair would be connected.

LeafByNiggle · Oct 3, 2022

The happy Objectivist said:
Wow! That is really fascinating. Thank you. I've never heard or thought about that before. I've never thought about there being separate habitats on a human body leading to the evolution of a new species of lice. I wonder why gaining a bigger brain and losing hair would be connected.

Loss of body hair enables better evaporative cooling from sweat, which in turn enables a hunting technique called persistence hunting where they chase the prey for hours. The prey runs until it collapses from heat stroke. That type of hunting is also associated with planning and intelligence

The happy Objectivist · Oct 3, 2022

LeafByNiggle said:
Loss of body hair enables better evaporative cooling from sweat, which in turn enables a hunting technique called persistence hunting where they chase the prey for hours. The prey runs until it collapses from heat stroke. That type of hunting is also associated with planning and intelligence

Ok, right. I remember seeing a whole tv show about that. We could just run animals into the ground because they would overheat and we wouldn't. And our intelligence eventually gave us better and better tools so that we didn't have to run at all to get them. Thanks for answering.

Kylie · Oct 3, 2022

LeafByNiggle said:
Loss of body hair enables better evaporative cooling from sweat, which in turn enables a hunting technique called persistence hunting where they chase the prey for hours. The prey runs until it collapses from heat stroke. That type of hunting is also associated with planning and intelligence

Persistence hunting is legit terrifying.

Honest question: do parasites evolve, if their hosts do?

If I was a parasite, I would find...

...a way to evolve with my current host

...a different host, rather than evolve with my current one

...an easier host, to evolve with, rather than an extremely different one

...a way to evolve less, regardless of the host

...a relationship with the creator of Evolution, for successively better hosts

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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