Right now the topic of "Christian Nationalism" is a hot topic...and part of that debate involves the topic of Transhumanism (since several of the movers and shakers in the Christian Nationalist movement are Christian Transhumanists...Peter Thiel and Blake Masters to name just a couple). If anyone is interested in this topic, please check out this Youtube debate, which highlights the differences between Christian Transhumanism and Satanist Transhumanism...and also discusses the emerging Christian Nationalist movement and its connections to Transhumanism.
Christian Transhumanism Vs. Satanist Transhumanism
- Thread starter white gardenia
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Is there a difference?
Man is made in the image of God and although mar by sin, through Jesus and his return we will have perfect bodies.
So a desire to improve on ' inperfections ' in the human body is yet another way of rejecting God.
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In the 90's a woman named Terri Schiavo had a heart attack and was placed on a life support machine. Was that a rejection of God?
I dont believe it was...In fact I think that God wants us to use whatever tech is at our disposal to preserve life.
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Well I would counter with this argument- human beings cannot run at 75 miles per hour....But we use cars to allow us to travel at a faster rate than is physically possible....Cars are not a form of medical interference and/or response to an illness...they are a perceived improvement to the human body.
Beyond that, humans have vocal cords that we were born with. God gave us vocal cords for the express purpose of communication. But we cannot communicate with someone on the other side of the world unless we use technology. So when we use a telephone to communicate across continents we are augmenting our vocal cords to improve the human situation.
Here on this website, we are using technology to communicate with other people instead of the mouth and vocal cords that we were born with.
I think it is a good thing when Christians use technology to make life easier/ more efficient when it comes to communication...And even more commendable to use technology to improve health and/or preserve innocent life...
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Correction they are a tool to be used not an addition to the body.
Transhumanism is not a means of medical help but of deliberate attempts to replace healthy functioning parts of the body with a mechical or electronic device that is thought to give a better performance.
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rwb
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Exactly! Transhumanism is trying to play God, thinking they are more capable than God to create humans far better than He already has. It's the exact same sinfulness that took place at creation when Adam and Eve saw the fruit of the forbidden tree was good to make them wise, and to be as God. Is that not what these mad sadistic lunatics are thinking with the audacity to think they can remake man in their own image! What could possibly go wrong?
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So let's follow up on that....If a child is born with a congenital limb defect....and is fitted with a prosthetic limb (perhaps even a robotic prosthetic) is this playing God? Should the child be happy with the way that he or she was born, or should technology be used to to repair the child's limb?
In 2001, Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh underwent cochlear implant surgery. He underwent the surgery after a gradual and persistent hearing loss threatened to make him deaf. Was Rush Limbaugh's doctor playing God? And what is the difference between the implant in Rush Limbaugh and the implant that Elon Musk is working on?
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rwb
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You're comparing apples to oranges! God has given mankind a brilliant mind that is able to invent things to help alleviate human suffering from physical defects. That's far different than these so-called geniuses attempting to create human 2.0. These transhumanists believe since they have the ability to make mankind better by changing their DNA they should do exactly that. They tell us they will do this to alleviate physical human suffering, but those who buy into this lie need to do more research. Because transhumanism has more to do with controlling humanity then it does with alleviating human pain and suffering. Here is an article, one of many you might find interesting.
Transhumanism: The 4th Industrial Revolution of DNA Modification - Helena (helenaglass.net)
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So you say a healthy functioning body part cannot be replaced. But you have no problem with a person replacing faulty body parts? I think that most Transhumanists would be perfectly fine with that caveat.
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Most Transhumanists are opposed to the concept of death, so they want to replace faltering body parts. That is the main reason that people embrace Transhumanism. If you agree that there is no problem with replacing a congenitally deformed leg or a faltering heart, then I think we can agree on that basic tenant...
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Thank you for the link...I will try to check it out...Just out of curiosity, is this article reflective of the Qanon and/or David Icke position that Globalists are trying to help Lizard People take over the world by sneaking Lizard People DNA into humans?
Im pretty dismissive of Conspiracy Theories...I mean I love them as far as entertainment (I listen to Coast to Coast AM every night and listen to Alex Jones at least once a week.) Im addicted to that kind of talk radio. But am also a very skeptical person...Im a hardcore Christian but Im definitely dont get into the New Age Quanon type stuff.
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rwb
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I have no idea what Qanon believes and have never heard of David Icke. Just one point regarding so-called conspiracy theories is that what I believed was conspiracy in the past has proven to be truth. So, I don't dismiss every so-called conspiracy theory outright without researching for myself. I certainly would not believe a thing just because someone says it is true. Especially in these times we are living through it is more important than ever to be diligent because so much truth is hidden from people by those whose desire a great re-set of society.
Most of my understanding of transhumanism comes from the words of transhumanists themselves. If you read Klaus Schwab and the Word Economic Forum, you learn their plans for mankind with the Great Re-set they envision for humanity.
You may dismiss Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum as conspiracy theory, but you might not if you learn about this evil man. The article below begins to paint a picture of a man of unlimited means and a Hitler like personality that seeks a Great Re-set for humanity. Like Hitler before him, Schwab desires to have a people according to his design because he does not believe that God created man in His own likeness and image. So, through transhumanism Schwab will re-make man into whatever image he believes would be so much better than what man currently is. Of course, it all sounds so noble, after all he simply desires to rid man of every defect that plagues them by changing bits of man's God-given DNA. What could possibly go wrong???
Worldview: Klaus Schwab – The Most Dangerous Man In The World (gardenstatefamilies.org)
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David's Harp
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Hi white gardenia. Well thanks for bringing this up. I had no idea Christian Transhumanism was a thing. Indeed had I not found out about the Christian Transhumanist Association after reading this thread, I would still not have given it any credence.
I think this article: The Impossibility of Christian Transhumanism sums up best my thoughts about this whole movement and the premise that it is compatible with Christianity. The author asserts that you can be no more a Christian Transhumanist than a Christian Buddhist or Christian Muslim - and I wholeheartedly agree.
Regardless of 'conspiracy' theories of how any technology may be used against the people, the very idea of augmenting a human with what would essentially be super-powers, goes against man being made in God's image, imo.
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Well again, I love conspiracy theory culture as entertainment. I listen to Alex Jones and Coast to Coast AM faithfully. I grew up in a private school that taught me conspiracy theories as part of the curriculum.
But I just have to respectfully disagree with you on one point- most conspiracy theories have not turned out to be true. Here is a partial list of widely accepted conspiracy theories which (over time) have been shown to be incorrect -
"The 9-11 Conspiracy" : This conspiracy theory was heavily promoted by Alex Jones and (to some extent) Michael Moore. But even Alex Jones has backed away from it. While the Infowars folks used to claim that nearly every terrorist attack under Bush and Obama was staged by the government, they did a sharp U-Turn by supporting Donald Trump's proposed Muslim ban (the obvious paradox being- why would we ban Muslims if they were only being framed by the "Deep State"?). Now Alex and his followers basically try to avoid the topic (though some QAnon followers have taken a unique approach to 9-11, admitting that Bin Laden was behind the attacks but claiming that the terrorist mastermind is still alive, a claim that Trump amazingly retweeted several weeks before the 2020 election).
"The School Shootings Conspiracy" : The conspiracy crowd insisted that several of the mass school shootings under Obama were staged by the government. And the obvious wrongness of the conspiracy is now on full display, with Jones admitting under oath that he was wrong about the shootings being staged (and admitting that he had zero evidence to support his past positions). This one verges on tragic since many conspiracy theorists (not Jones himself but some of his listeners) started to harass and even taunt the families of the murdered children.
"The Stolen Election Conspiracy" : Like almost all conspiracy theories, the idea that Trump actually won the 2020 election is self negating and paradoxical. Because Trump voters (myself included) voted for Trump because he promised to Drain the Swamp and defeat the "Deep State". If Trump won the vote in 2016 (when Obama had all the levers of power) why would the electoral process become so hopelessly corrupted under Trump? Why would Trump allow the Deep State to hijack our electoral system? Beyond that, over 60 courts looked at the evidence in this election and said there was no significant voter fraud. And that includes our Right-leaning Supreme Court (and by the way, God bless our Supreme Court, both for their ruling on this issue and for their recent ruling which overturned Roe vs. Wade).
Anyways, there are many other conspiracy theories which have proven to be incorrect, but those are three examples which have spread like wildfire throughout the Christian community. As a Christian I think it is a BIG mistake to mix conspiracy theories with the Christian faith...because conspiracy theories are inevitably going to be disproved...and people watching from the sidelines might say "the Christians were lying about that, what else are they lying about?"
Since 2017, there has been a 6 percent drop in the number of Americans who believe in God...I doubt that it is a coincidence that this precipitous drop started in 2017 (since that is about when Christians started embracing conspiracy theory culture). Number of Americans who believe in God drops to historic low (nypost.com)
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Thanks for the link....Yes I am very familiar with Wesley J. Smith ( I am a big fan of National Review- a magazine that he has written for). I am actually a fan of his writings (he has written some very good stuff in defense of the pro-life position and in opposition to assisted suicide)
I think that is the irony- the fact that I am pro-life and completely opposed to euthanasia is precisely the same reason that I support Transhumanism. There is no reason that we shouldnt use technology to extend life and help frail people whose natural bodies are giving out. Terri Schiavo being placed on a life support machine is Transhumanism...(and remember it was the liberals in that case who wanted her to be unplugged from the machine).
Here is another example- Abortion is clearly a tragedy and we should do everything we can to save the lives of unborn children. And right now, there are Transhumanists who are working on potential technology that could save the lives of unborn children...allowing them to live outside of the womb if the mother refuses to carry them to term. This is a great example of how Transhumanism may be helping to fulfill the Christian directive to save lives and heal the sick- Opinion | The Abortion Debate Is Stuck. Are Artificial Wombs the Answer? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Finally, one quick point in regard to the title of Mr. Smith's article ("The Impossibility of Christian Transhumanism"). In response I would quote Matthew 19:26.... "With God All Things Are Possible"
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rwb
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This is the only point that needs to be responded to. I did not say most conspiracy theories have turned out to be true. You can love conspiracy theories (some so-called) to your hearts content! It makes no difference to me.
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rwb
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Thanks for the link....Yes I am very familiar with Wesley J. Smith ( I am a big fan of National Review- a magazine that he has written for). I am actually a fan of his writings (he has written some very good stuff in defense of the pro-life position and in opposition to assisted suicide)
I think that is the irony- the fact that I am pro-life and completely opposed to euthanasia is precisely the same reason that I support Transhumanism. There is no reason that we shouldnt use technology to extend life and help frail people whose natural bodies are giving out. Terri Schiavo being placed on a life support machine is Transhumanism...(and remember it was the liberals in that case who wanted her to be unplugged from the machine).
Here is another example- Abortion is clearly a tragedy and we should do everything we can to save the lives of unborn children. And right now, there are Transhumanists who are working on potential technology that could save the lives of unborn children...allowing them to live outside of the womb if the mother refuses to carry them to term. This is a great example of how Transhumanism may be helping to fulfill the Christian directive to save lives and heal the sick- Opinion | The Abortion Debate Is Stuck. Are Artificial Wombs the Answer? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Finally, one quick point in regard to the title of Mr. Smith's article ("The Impossibility of Christian Transhumanism"). In response I would quote Matthew 19:26.... "With God All Things Are Possible"
Look whose jumping on the band wagon of conspiracy theories. You know the one that promotes transhumanism as something good for humanity! Let me know in the future how that's working out for you!
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Except transhumanism is far more than replacing damaged or malfunctioning organs/limbs etc, it is also about replacing fully functioning limbs/organs etc with a better mechanical/electronic limb/organ.
It is an attempt to prevent death by organ failure and that is a rejection of God.
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rwb
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Exactly, and when you listen to the writings of The World Economic Forum, with Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates you find the biggest achievement for transhumanists seeks to change human DNA. Their main goal of course is their desire to defeat death....immortality without Christ is their ultimate goal! And no one knows how many lives will be ruined as they experiment with man's DNA!
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