Dems pressured the FDA to delay the COVID vaccine to hurt Trump

Trogdor the Burninator · Sep 14, 2022

probinson said:
Trump.

The Democrats seeded all kinds of doubt about the vaccines while Trump was in office, and then the moment Biden was elected, they completely flipped positions.

Oh sure. Because I'm sure we don't remember all the republicans, including many on this very forum, who posted endless anti-vax conspiracy articles and comments day after day.

cow451 · Sep 14, 2022

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Oh sure. Because I'm sure we don't remember all the republicans, including many on this very forum, who posted endless anti-vax conspiracy articles and comments day after day.

That reminds me…. I need to call my veterinarian for refills.

chevyontheriver · Sep 15, 2022

DaisyDay said:
But who politicized it?

Having lived through it, it was the Democrats initially. Trump wanted to impose travel restrictions in the earliest days of Covid and Nancy Pelosi called him a racist for wanting to slow the initial spread of the disease. It's been political ever since, and both sides have played. Covid was used politically to defeat Trump, whether you like that result or not.

probinson · Sep 15, 2022

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Oh sure. Because I'm sure we don't remember all the republicans, including many on this very forum, who posted endless anti-vax conspiracy articles and comments day after day.

Sure we do.

When did that happen? When did the roles flip? When did the democrats stop being the "anti-vaxxers" and become the vaccine zealots? The vaccine was highly politicized by both sides.

Vylo · Sep 15, 2022

the FDA was under Trump prior to the election. The democrats had little to no way to influence the FDA. Any hesitation on their part was due diligence.

Vylo · Sep 15, 2022

probinson said:
Sure we do.

When did that happen? When did the roles flip? When did the democrats stop being the "anti-vaxxers" and become the vaccine zealots? The vaccine was highly politicized by both sides.

Probably when there was actual testing? you know that whole process? People weren't about to take a the word of a serial liar like Trump, so they wanted reassurances, which the medical community wasn't willing to give until sufficient testing had gone through.

probinson · Sep 15, 2022

Vylo said:
Probably when there was actual testing? you know that whole process? People weren't about to take a the word of a serial liar like Trump, so they wanted reassurances, which the medical community wasn't willing to give until sufficient testing had gone through.

Except that's not what happened at all. No new data was available at the time democrats stopped their anti-vaxx rhetoric. The only real thing that changed was that Biden had won the election. On November 7, 2020, Biden was announced as the winner of the 2020 election. On November 9, Pfizer announced the results of their phase 3 clinical trial data. Nifty coincidence that the announcement came just 2 days after the election results were confirmed, I suppose. But more interestingly, democrats had said that they couldn't trust the FDA saying the vaccine was safe. Specifically, Cuomo said this on October 19, 2020;

“I believe all across the country you're going to need someone other than this FDA and this CDC saying it's safe.”

But then Cuomo changed his tune. After Biden was elected, and after the Pfizer announcement, and BEFORE the FDA evaluated anything, on November 9, Cuomo said that it was "good news" that the vaccine would be available shortly, and that it was "bad news" that there was 2 months until Joe Biden takes over. All of a sudden, Cuomo was no longer concerned about needing someone other than this FDA and this CDC saying it was safe. His skepticism of the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine COMPLETELY VANISHED. Suddenly, he was concerned that Trump's "vaccine plan" would leave people out and not everyone would be able to get vaccinated with the same vaccine that he had just 3 weeks earlier expressed concern about.

This was blatantly political. It had nothing at all to do with "actual testing".

DaisyDay · Sep 15, 2022

chevyontheriver said:
Having lived through it, it was the Democrats initially. Trump wanted to impose travel restrictions in the earliest days of Covid and Nancy Pelosi called him a racist for wanting to slow the initial spread of the disease. It's been political ever since, and both sides have played. Covid was used politically to defeat Trump, whether you like that result or not.

Trump imposed a travel ban on Chinese people, but not on Americans in China or Europeans who had been to China recently...so, yeah, that was pretty racist and useless. Trump did not want to do any testing because more testing meant more cases. :doh:

He put Jared the Wonderkind in charge of rapid response and supply distribution which he outsourced to youngsters who had no experience or knowledge of what to do. Since New York, Massachusetts and California were hard hit initially, Jared slowed the response even further because they were only blue states.

probinson · Sep 15, 2022

DaisyDay said:
Trump imposed a travel ban on Chinese people, but not on Americans in China or Europeans who had been to China recently...so, yeah, that was pretty racist and useless.

Isn't that exactly what Biden did with the "Africa ban"? (emphasis added)

In addition to South Africa, the current restrictions (which do not apply to returning U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents) bar the entry of those traveling from the nations of Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini (aka Swaziland), Mozambique, and Malawi.

Biden Bans Travel from Eight African Countries Over ‘Omicron’ Covid Variant

Vylo · Sep 15, 2022

probinson said:
Except that's not what happened at all. No new data was available at the time democrats stopped their anti-vaxx rhetoric. The only real thing that changed was that Biden had won the election. On November 7, 2020, Biden was announced as the winner of the 2020 election. On November 9, Pfizer announced the results of their phase 3 clinical trial data. Nifty coincidence that the announcement came just 2 days after the election results were confirmed, I suppose. But more interestingly, democrats had said that they couldn't trust the FDA saying the vaccine was safe. Specifically, Cuomo said this on October 19, 2020;

“I believe all across the country you're going to need someone other than this FDA and this CDC saying it's safe.”

But then Cuomo changed his tune. After Biden was elected, and after the Pfizer announcement, and BEFORE the FDA evaluated anything, on November 9, Cuomo said that it was "good news" that the vaccine would be available shortly, and that it was "bad news" that there was 2 months until Joe Biden takes over. All of a sudden, Cuomo was no longer concerned about needing someone other than this FDA and this CDC saying it was safe. His skepticism of the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine COMPLETELY VANISHED. Suddenly, he was concerned that Trump's "vaccine plan" would leave people out and not everyone would be able to get vaccinated with the same vaccine that he had just 3 weeks earlier expressed concern about.

This was blatantly political. It had nothing at all to do with "actual testing".

Are you saying that dark brandon controlled PFizer despite having no authority?

As for the second part I can imagine why people would doubt anything under Trump. He lied constantly, left blue states to literally die, stole our PPE. Why would we trust anyone he may have control over. We trusted Fauci, because he has a long track record.

probinson · Sep 15, 2022

Vylo said:
Are you saying that dark brandon controlled PFizer despite having no authority?

Not at all. I'm saying it's rather ... convenient ... that results from the Pfizer trial were announced just two days after the results of the election were confirmed.

Vylo said:
As for the second part I can imagine why people would doubt anything under Trump. He lied constantly, left blue states to literally die, stole our PPE. Why would we trust anyone he may have control over. We trusted Fauci, because he has a long track record.

Cuomo trusted Pfizer. Pfizer made their announcement on November 9, and Cuomo made his statements on November 9. NO ONE had a chance to review ANYTHING at that point. The news was hot off the presses from Pfizer. And suddenly all of his concerns about the FDA and the CDC and getting someone else to validate the safety and efficacy of these vaccines vanished into thin air. We no longer needed independent verification. Now it was the absolute gospel truth that the vaccines were the miracle solution to our problem, and we must immediately intervene to stop Trump from distributing them unfairly.

So if democrats doubted under Trump, why did they suddenly drop all of their doubts and anti-vaxx rhetoric on November 9 after Biden had been announced the official winner of the election? Trump's administration had overseen operation warp speed. Trump's FDA and CDC were still in charge of reviewing the data and granting the approvals. But democrats suddenly and immediately backed away from all seeds of doubt they had sown about the vaccines and became vaccine zealots overnight.

You don't think there's anything political about that? You really believe that there was some compelling new data that came to light that assuaged all of their concerns and doubts that they had voiced about the vaccine for months prior, and that it was all just a nifty coincidence that it all happened after Biden was confirmed the winner?

Politicians are opportunists. When the republicans were in charge, they pushed for the vaccines and democrats sowed doubt like crazy. When it was clear democrats were taking charge, the roles flipped. And that is why the vaccine rollout in the US was such a complete and utter disaster, because something that should have been a medical intervention driven by evidence and sound risk/benefit analyses suddenly became a cudgel that each political party could use for their own political ends.

FireDragon76 · Sep 15, 2022

The drug approval process was as fast as it could be given the sort of scientific standards the US drug approval regime entails. Other countries that developed vaccines faster, like Russia or China, had vaccines that were later shown to be far less effective.

probinson · Sep 15, 2022

FireDragon76 said:
...given the sort of scientific standards the US drug approval regime entails.

The eight mice that the new bivalent booster was tested on would beg to differ.

Vylo · Sep 15, 2022

probinson said:
Not at all. I'm saying it's rather ... convenient ... that results from the Pfizer trial were announced just two days after the results of the election were confirmed.

Cuomo trusted Pfizer. Pfizer made their announcement on November 9, and Cuomo made his statements on November 9. NO ONE had a chance to review ANYTHING at that point. The news was hot off the presses from Pfizer. And suddenly all of his concerns about the FDA and the CDC and getting someone else to validate the safety and efficacy of these vaccines vanished into thin air. We no longer needed independent verification. Now it was the absolute gospel truth that the vaccines were the miracle solution to our problem, and we must immediately intervene to stop Trump from distributing them unfairly.

So if democrats doubted under Trump, why did they suddenly drop all of their doubts and anti-vaxx rhetoric on November 9 after Biden had been announced the official winner of the election? Trump's administration had overseen operation warp speed. Trump's FDA and CDC were still in charge of reviewing the data and granting the approvals. But democrats suddenly and immediately backed away from all seeds of doubt they had sown about the vaccines and became vaccine zealots overnight.

You don't think there's anything political about that? You really believe that there was some compelling new data that came to light that assuaged all of their concerns and doubts that they had voiced about the vaccine for months prior, and that it was all just a nifty coincidence that it all happened after Biden was confirmed the winner?

Politicians are opportunists. When the republicans were in charge, they pushed for the vaccines and democrats sowed doubt like crazy. When it was clear democrats were taking charge, the roles flipped. And that is why the vaccine rollout in the US was such a complete and utter disaster, because something that should have been a medical intervention driven by evidence and sound risk/benefit analyses suddenly became a cudgel that each political party could use for their own political ends.

I think that there was more than enough reason to doubt Trump or anyone underneath him.

LeafByNiggle · Sep 15, 2022

Valletta said:
For every week we didn’t have a COVID-19 vaccine, more people died, more children were kept out of school, and more damage was done to society.

Yet it’s become increasingly clear that the FDA put the brakes on the vaccine at the 11th hour, delaying its authorization because Democrats — worried it would help Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election prospects — undermined public confidence in the vaccine development efforts.

We may never know how much damage was done in the name of politics. But one victim is clear: Americans’ trust in their government and public health experts.
It seems clear Dems pressured the FDA to delay the COVID vaccine to hurt Trump

I read the NYPost article cited here and it is factually wrong. Democrats did not say they would not take the vaccine on President Trump's watch. They said they would not take the vaccine just because Trump said it was OK. This did say they would take it if it was approved by the FDA. That's a fact. And that is just one of the many errors in the clearly partisan hit piece from the NYPost that is known for being borderline questionable for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. In this case anyone can fact check the article just by reading it and discarding everything that is pure emotion and speculation based on coincidences and seeing what, if anything, is left. The decisions of the FDA were scientific decisions, not political ones, and no evidence has been presented to the contrary. It is only suggested as a conclusion that is readily adopted by those desiring to see such a conclusion.

SilverBear · Sep 15, 2022

chevyontheriver said:
Having lived through it, it was the Democrats initially. Trump wanted to impose travel restrictions in the earliest days of Covid and Nancy Pelosi called him a racist for wanting to slow the initial spread of the disease.

False.

KCfromNC · Sep 16, 2022

probinson said:
Isn't that exactly what Biden did with the "Africa ban"? (emphasis added)

Hey look, changing the subject to something totally unrelated and off topic when the facts contradict a far-right talking point. Who would have guessed?

probinson · Sep 16, 2022

LeafByNiggle said:
This did say they would take it if it was approved by the FDA. That's a fact.

Um, no it's not (emphasis added);

Governor Andrew Cuomo (D-NY), in October: “I believe all across the country you're going to need someone other than this FDA and this CDC saying it's safe.”
- Cuomo said he was “not that confident” in the FDA’s approval process for a COVID-19 vaccine and that Americans “should be” “skeptical” about a vaccine.
- In September, Cuomo said “I’m not going to trust” the federal government’s opinion on whether the vaccine is safe and “wouldn’t recommend to New Yorkers based on the federal government’s opinion.”

Go ahead. Click the links and listen and read for yourself. Cuomo spent the entire month of October 2020 telling people to be skeptical of the vaccine AND the FDA's approval.

You are engaging in historical revisionism. The fact of the matter is while Trump was in power, the democrats couldn't stop casting doubt and skepticism on the vaccine, and as soon as Biden was confirmed the winner, the democrats flipped completely, not on the basis of any new data or evidence, but simply because Biden was now going to be in office.

Also, it became abundantly clear just how politicized the FDA's decisions were when the top two vaccine regulators at the agency resigned in protest over the political pressures to approve booster doses.

probinson · Sep 16, 2022

KCfromNC said:
Hey look, changing the subject to something totally unrelated and off topic when the facts contradict a far-right talking point. Who would have guessed?

How is a travel ban from African countries that was instituted by Biden where he excluded American citizens "totally unrelated" to Trump instituting a travel ban from China where he excluded American citizens? I know this is your MO, but come on. Even you have to see that your attempt to say this is "changing the subject" is nonsensical.

Tom 1 · Sep 16, 2022

Valletta said:
For every week we didn’t have a COVID-19 vaccine, more people died, more children were kept out of school, and more damage was done to society.

Yet it’s become increasingly clear that the FDA put the brakes on the vaccine at the 11th hour, delaying its authorization because Democrats — worried it would help Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election prospects — undermined public confidence in the vaccine development efforts.

We may never know how much damage was done in the name of politics. But one victim is clear: Americans’ trust in their government and public health experts.
It seems clear Dems pressured the FDA to delay the COVID vaccine to hurt Trump

I'd like to suggest 'Trump fans desperate to maintain fantasy narrative(s)' as a more accurate thread title.

Dems pressured the FDA to delay the COVID vaccine to hurt Trump

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