Bound for a thousand years

eclipsenow · Aug 30, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
this is not a prophecy therefor it is not relevant

Revelation is not prophecy either - but a sermon on suffering written in apocalyptic symbolism and reminding us - in picture language and symbols - that the Lord is worth it and will return one day and win in the end. So the Hebrews comprehensive use of 1000 as symbolic of a REALLY long time - or a really big number - (or in some cases even eternity) - is entirely relevant!

It's a really long time that the Lord reigns from heaven, between is Resurrection and Return. And some really bad things are going to happen in that time, just as we've seen over the last 2000 years and see today.

But futurists want to miss the message entirely and rob it of its symbolic comfort and claim there's a REALLY bad "Great Tribulation!" coming? As if John wouldn't write a word of comfort to his generation suffering under the Romans? That's just awful.

Erik Nelson · Sep 1, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
This what is being discussed (prophecy)

And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: And after that, he must be loosed a little season (Revelation 20:1-3).

The 4th Beast of Daniel = Beast of the Sea = Pagan Roman Empire was spiritually "defeated" (converted to Christ) in the 4th century AD.

Implying that the same 4th beast has existed for over 2,000 years distorts Daniel's Prophetic Vision:

Erik Nelson · Sep 1, 2022

DavidPT said:
this battle might involve tanks, nuclear weapons, etc. I don't get the impression anyone is being surrounded militarily, such as via tanks, ships, planes, etc.

Is anyone on earth actually named "Gog Magog" ?

"Gog Magog" somehow "surrounding" the "camp of the Saints" is a picturing of spiritual conflict in the spiritual realm

That spiritual conflict will (presumably) have a "shadow" on the physical surface of the earth

Cp. no multi-headed dragon-hydra has ever physically walked & breathed on earth... yet that image depicted the pagan Roman empire spiritually speaking

As with the "beasts" before the Millennium, so with "Gog & Magog" after the Millennium, all the "monsters" depict historical societies according to their spiritual characters

Original Happy Camper · Sep 2, 2022

Erik Nelson said:
The 4th Beast of Daniel = Beast of the Sea = Pagan Roman Empire was spiritually "defeated" (converted to Christ) in the 4th century AD.

History shows us that pagan Roman Empire was converted to the papal system which did not follow the teachings of Jesus instead adopted the pagan form of worship which it still does till this day and will till the second coming of Jesus Christ

No other God
When Constantine moved his capital to Constantinople (330 AD), the Pope inherited the power, prestige, and even titles of the Roman emperors. The most significant of such titles is Pontifex Maximus, a pagan title that means “Bridge builder between heaven and Earth.”

In 538 AD, the emperor Justinian issued a decree, proclaiming the Pope to be supreme in religious matters. Since then, the Pope has assumed the garb of representative of Jesus Christ on Earth.
Papal Rome takes Pagan Rome's Power | The Papacy and the Roman Empire

worship Idols

There are statues in abundance; there are relics, such as bone fragments, said to have belonged to certain saints. Some shrines even contain pieces of wood purported to be part of Jesus’ cross. All of these things are held to be sacred objects worthy of high regard. The idolatry is rampant and fairly obvious to non-Catholics, yet Catholics do not believe they are committing idolatry. They have been cleverly taught to believe that they do not worship these idols; they simply “venerate” them. The problem is that “veneration” still gives honor and reverence to something and/or someone other than God; therefore, veneration is idolatry.
Do Catholics worship idols / practice idolatry? | GotQuestions.org

The Lords name in vain

Exodus 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain.

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Roman Catholics are taught to address their local parish priest as “Father” from the time they are a small child. They will continue to address their Catholic priests as Father until the day they die, unless of course they get saved, and are delivered out from that deceptive system.

Remember the Sabbath Day

In the 16th century a papal council plainly declared: “Let all Christians remember that the 7th day was consecrated by God, and hath been received and observed not only by the Jews, but by all others who pretend to worship God. Though we Christians have changed their Sabbath into the Lord’s Day.” REFERENCE: “Discourse in Six dialogues on The Name, Notion and Observation of The Lord’s Day”, Thomas Morer, pp. 281-282

“…by observing the Sunday change (the Protestants) are recognizing her power.” REFERENCE: “Plain Talk About The Protestantism of Today”, Mgr. Segur
https://4thcommandment.com/-Sunday_Origins_.html

Sunday was the day of the Sun god. In pagan theology, the Sun was the source of life, giving warmth and illumination to mankind. It was the center of a popular cult among Romans, who would stand at dawn to catch the first rays of sunshine as they prayed.

TedT · Sep 2, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

WHY A THOUSAND YEARS AND NOT FIVE HUNDRED?

your thoughts please

Is not 1000 the symbolic number for a full amount, not necessarily an exact counting but meaning the perfect amount of whatever is being counted?

Since the judgement day has been postponed until the sinful but good (elect) seed is holy as the time of the harvest implies, Matt 13:27-30, and IF the last holdouts for full sanctification were those sinful elect who thought surely there must be a perfect time in hell which would open the eyes of the reprobate to their sinfulness and their need to repent so that universal salvation could be established,

then the 1000 years is the perfect time to convince these people committed to the idea of universal salvation that they were wrong, that is, if Satan and his demonic angels were not repentant after this time then shutting them into an eternal hell was an absolute necessity to keep them from eternally preyinging upon those in heaven.

Thus their sanctification would then be compete and their safety from being pulled up in the judgement ensured allowing that terrible day of the LORD to proceed.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 2, 2022

TedT said:
Is not 1000 the symbolic number for a full amount, not necessarily an exact counting but meaning the perfect amount of whatever is being counted?

was not the days of creation exact, evening and the morning?
Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Timtofly · Sep 3, 2022

Erik Nelson said:
Is anyone on earth actually named "Gog Magog" ?

"Gog Magog" somehow "surrounding" the "camp of the Saints" is a picturing of spiritual conflict in the spiritual realm

That spiritual conflict will (presumably) have a "shadow" on the physical surface of the earth

Cp. no multi-headed dragon-hydra has ever physically walked & breathed on earth... yet that image depicted the pagan Roman empire spiritually speaking

As with the "beasts" before the Millennium, so with "Gog & Magog" after the Millennium, all the "monsters" depict historical societies according to their spiritual characters

Ask Alexander the great. He built a wall to keep them out of his territory.

Original Happy Camper · Sep 3, 2022

Timtofly said:
Ask Alexander the great. He built a wall to keep them out of his territory.

and Rome defeated Greece just as the Bible predicted

DavidPT · Sep 3, 2022

TedT said:
Is not 1000 the symbolic number for a full amount, not necessarily an exact counting but meaning the perfect amount of whatever is being counted?

Things like that apply to various numbers though, such as 3, such as 7, etc. But when any of those numbers are followed by years, the Bible always treats them as literal years every single time, which means the same has to be true when a thousand is followed by years.

An example of the number 7 followed by years.

Genesis 29:18 And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.

Are 7 literal years meant here or not?

Genesis 41:29 Behold, there come seven years of great plenty throughout all the land of Egypt:

Are 7 literal years meant here or not?

Judges 12:9 And he had thirty sons, and thirty daughters, whom he sent abroad, and took in thirty daughters from abroad for his sons. And he judged Israel seven years.

Are 7 literal years meant here or not?

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

Are 7 literal years meant here or not?

rwb · Sep 3, 2022

DavidPT said:
Things like that apply to various numbers though, such as 3, such as 7, etc. But when any of those numbers are followed by years, the Bible always treats them as literal years every single time, which means the same has to be true when a thousand is followed by years.

But "a" thousand years is not ONE thousand years. A thousand and 'the' thousand simply means thousand, which Ted pointed out is a symbolic number meaning fullness of whatever is in view.

rwb · Sep 3, 2022

If John meant one thousand literal years why did he write "a" and "the" instead of one, like we find in various OT verses?

Nu 1:41 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Asher, were forty and one thousand and five hundred.
Nu 2:16 All that were numbered in the camp of Reuben were an hundred thousand and fifty and one thousand and four hundred and fifty, throughout their armies. And they shall set forth in the second rank.
Nu 2:28 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were forty and one thousand and five hundred.
Nu 31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
Ezr 2:69 They gave after their ability unto the treasure of the work threescore and one thousand drams of gold, and five thousand pound of silver, and one hundred priests' garments.
Isa 30:17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.

TedT · Sep 3, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
was not the days of creation exact, evening and the morning?
Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The use of numbers to count with exactitude does not diminish the use of a number elsewhere as a metaphor...

Erik Nelson · Sep 3, 2022

TedT said:
The use of numbers to count with exactitude does not diminish the use of a number elsewhere as a metaphor...

Prophetic timelines are exact, yes? The year-weeks of Daniel, the 1260-days of Revelation...

So, it would not be uncharacteristic, or in any other way surprising, if it did turn out, that the Millennium was also a similarly exact figure (more than less a thousand years)

Erik Nelson · Sep 3, 2022

Timtofly said:
Ask Alexander the great. He built a wall to keep them out of his territory.

True that the literal meaning of the Hebrew is "Gog" = Caucasus, "Ma-Gog" = "land of Gog" = Caucasus mountains region

Erik Nelson · Sep 6, 2022

Precession of the Equinoxes --

Noah's Flood at the climax of the Piora Oscillation climate shift around 2900 BC, just as the star alpha-Draconis aligned with Earth's spin axis;
Scripture contrasts Noah's Flood of water with the fires of Doomsday
alpha-Ursae-Minoris (Polaris) will soon align with Earth's spin axis around 2100 AD
Its ancient Semitic name has always been "goat" (e.g. Arabic al-Judayy الجدي "the kid", in the sense of a juvenile goat)
Interpretation as cogent, articulate, meaningful, intelligible communication: "By 2100 AD, the whole earth will be aligned with "goat" (not "sheep")"

Could just be coincidence(s), some may perceive it has the feel of a "giant astronomical clock" slewing around towards an(other) significant alignment (?)

Some have said they would believe if they saw Scripture written on the sky?

Timtofly · Sep 7, 2022

rwb said:
If John meant one thousand literal years why did he write "a" and "the" instead of one, like we find in various OT verses?

If you asked for a thousand dollars and I gave you one dollar, you would ask why only a dollar.

I would answer back that you were not specific enough. If you asked for one thousand dollars, I would still give you one. That thousand was probably figurative and you wanted a complete one, not a torn one.

I would wonder why you even used "thousand". Surely, you did not mean it.

rwb · Sep 8, 2022

Timtofly said:
If you asked for a thousand dollars and I gave you one dollar, you would ask why only a dollar.

I would answer back that you were not specific enough. If you asked for one thousand dollars, I would still give you one. That thousand was probably figurative and you wanted a complete one, not a torn one.

I would wonder why you even used "thousand". Surely, you did not mean it.

I believe John used "a" thousand in the same way we often do to express something that really cannot be known. Such as I've said a thousand times now, a thousand equates to an unknowable amount of time given the Chruch for building the Kingdom of heaven as the Gospel is being sent unto all the nations of the earth.

Timtofly · Sep 8, 2022

rwb said:
I believe John used "a" thousand in the same way we often do to express something that really cannot be known. Such as I've said a thousand times now, a thousand equates to an unknowable amount of time given the Chruch for building the Kingdom of heaven as the Gospel is being sent unto all the nations of the earth.

I think God specified how long Satan would be bound, not just some random indefinite time period.

DavidPT · Sep 8, 2022

Timtofly said:
I think God specified how long Satan would be bound, not just some random indefinite time period.

In the real world, imagine being sentenced to 10 years in prison without the possibility of parole prior to the 10 years ending, except 10 years doesn't really mean 10 years, it means something that really cannot be known, which means it could mean 20 years, or even 50 years, anything but 10 years. No one, including rwb would use logic like that, or at least I would hope not, so why use logic like that if it is pertaining to being imprisoned for a thousand years?

rwb · Sep 9, 2022

DavidPT said:
In the real world, imagine being sentenced to 10 years in prison without the possibility of parole prior to the 10 years ending, except 10 years doesn't really mean 10 years, it means something that really cannot be known, which means it could mean 20 years, or even 50 years, anything but 10 years. No one, including rwb would use logic like that, or at least I would hope not, so why use logic like that if it is pertaining to being imprisoned for a thousand years?

Because God has determined it is not given for any man to know when the Lord shall return. Thats why John did not write ONE thousand years, but instead "a" thousand years indicating TIME, but an unspecified period of time.

Bound for a thousand years

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