Bound for a thousand years

rwb said:

How do the living pass from death to life by hearing the Word of Christ and believing on Him? Would you deny a spiritual resurrection to life from spiritual death is the way one passes from death to life upon hearing Christ and believing?

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What you call the spiritual resurrection, I would call the spiritual birth, an adoption into God's family via the Holy Spirit.

Your point is declared because of the Amil bias to call the first resurrection spiritual instead of physical. Since Jesus declares one needs both a first birth and a first resurrection, which is separate from the second birth, conflating them will never work.

Still not sure that once one is spiritually born from above, they want to spiritually die to be again spiritually resurrected. Once there, why leave? But to be spiritually resurrected instead of being born again as Jesus prescribed, goes against the Word.

Daniel Martinovich said:

That is just not true. There are well over a hundred chapters of prophecy in the OT about that eternal (invisible) kingdom.

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There are prophetic hints as to what justice will look like in God's kingdom, and some other characteristics. But these are not events, but characteristics. The event is Jesus Return.

Paul Williamson teaches Old Testament at Moore Theological College - in America he would be called a Professor of OT. He says:-

eclipsenow said:

There are prophetic hints as to what justice will look like in God's kingdom, and some other characteristics. But these are not events, but characteristics. The event is Jesus Return.

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My question would be then why do these characteristics as you call them mirror what we see happening in this age in the free world?

Another chapter from my book.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on me; because the LORD has anointed me to preach good tidings to the meek; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint to them that mourn in Zion, to give to them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

This is a pretty famous passage because Jesus quoted it in the NT and claimed he was the fulfillment of it. Accordingly, most of Christianity read it in such a way as to address only spiritual deliverance, salvation, and the gift of eternal life, and of course, it does mean that as well. The reason they look at it that way exclusively, though, is quite simple. For the most part, there was no physical deliverance from the evils of that world on the horizon. In fact, it got worse for believers in the following centuries, when converting to Christ became punishable by death under Roman law. So how could it be talking about salvation from earthly evils? Maybe that is why Jesus did not read on. Deliverance from earthly evils as a norm really wasn’t for the generations of people he and his apostles were speaking to. Rather, it was way off once the age measured by the four gentile empires had ended. That promised era after the age of the Gentiles is what we see in the remaining verses.

61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

This is exactly what we have seen happening in the creation and growth of the free world. It is saying that the people influenced by the Bible and its principles will build prosperous civilizations. They will not be conquering nations and looting their wealth or stealing the wealth of other’s labors through slavery. They will create wealth, do business, prosper, and rebuild what others destroyed, as opposed to the ideologies and evil empires that do just the opposite. You can even see this in modern democratic republics comparing those who reject or are at war with biblical principles versus those who embrace them. The tendency is clear. Those who oppose biblical principles being the dominant influence seem to tear down civilization, its prosperity, and its institutions. Decay and poverty set in as the power of an elite group grows over the people. In opposition to this, those who want biblical principles to be the dominant influence find that their concerns center on morality, freedom, and limited government. When those concerns prevail, broad national prosperity is a natural result.

61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

This is prophesying that the Gentiles, who are people of all nations, will be the pastors and evangelists in the Lord’s vineyard, which is the whole world.

61:6 But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: you shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall you boast yourselves.

This is the ministry of the believer as stated in Revelation 5:10 “And has made us unto our God a kingdom of priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Specifically, these are prophecies of the ministry of the believer being accepted and supported by the nations. To generations of people in the free world, this is a historical reality. Yet just as Isaiah 54 and 60 repeatedly state, it does not start out this way. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Generally, pioneers who bring the gospel to new areas of the world, just as happened with the apostles, are met with persecution and murder. It is a long process—a process that eventually took the Word of God getting into the hands of the general public before their ministry was accepted and supported by the nations.

The last few words of that verse are key to understanding the chapter. “… in their glory shall you boast themselves …” (Isaiah 61:6). What this means is that the civilizations built on biblical principles are the glory of the ministry of the believer. They will boast about those civilizations. North America is a good example of this. It is why Christians who understand how it came about point to and boast about its attributes while the international left seems to point only at its faults. By the way, those faults exist because of those who are rejecting the influence of God’s Word.

61:7 For your shame you shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be to them.

This is repeating the before and the after one more time—the shame and poverty of being an oppressed people ruled over by kings and dictators versus the financial prosperity of the free world. The free world is the believer’s land, where they and the faithful have a say in the way things are run. To put it another way, the world has gone through a period during which few had access to the Word of God and even fewer took it to heart. It was a time of shame. There was little glory in the nations that the faithful could boast of, as verse 6 states. Now, however, in an age during which people in general have access to God’s Word, when its influence becomes dominant in a culture and nation’s politics, there is much glory to boast about and less to be ashamed about.

61:8 For I the LORD love justice, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

What the Lord hates is the keeping of rites, rituals, feasts, and religious holidays as a cultural tradition yet not embracing the truths that those rites and rituals merely illustrate. The truths are what empower a nation to become just. This is a constant complaint from God against ancient Israel as a nation in the OT. That complaint carries right over into the NT in Jesus’s dealings with the nation. As he stated, “Therefore say I to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof ” (Matthew 21:43.) The fruit spoken of here is freedom, justice, and the rule of law founded on biblical principles rather than the arbitrary rule of men. If God is going to direct his people’s work in truth as stated in verse 8, and if part of directing that work in truth is toward that fruitful, promised inheritance of a free and just world, how, in a practical manner, could he do this without his Word in the hands of the general population to read and understand for themselves? Psalm 119: 105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path....160: the entirety of your Word is truth." The answer to that question is that he couldn’t. We had fifteen hundred years of proof since the beginning of the new covenant age that without God’s Word in the hands of the common people, God was very limited in what he could do to direct their work in truth toward the promised inheritance.

Let’s look at the Christian world prior to AD 1453 to see how Isaiah 61:8 played out in that scenario. The Word existed. It was held by the powers that existed. It destroyed the power of idolatry over the governments that held the Word. Generally, the rulers became far less sexually immoral in comparison to the pagan Greeks and Romans. They preserved the Word instead of destroying it. But the people themselves ruled over by those powers that existed did not have God’s Word. What they did have were rites, rituals, holy days, feasts, pictures, statues, and a state-sanctioned priesthood. That, however, was not enough to bring about the justice of a free world that God loves. Just as God was being robbed of what he wanted and loved when this scripture was written, he was also being robbed of his rightful place in people’s lives until the time the Bible got into the hands of the general public. He simply could not effectively direct their work in truth in such a way that would produce the fruit of a free and just world that he loves and had promised would come. That world, the one that now exists and is growing, is part of the everlasting covenant made with Christ referenced at the end of Isaiah 61:8.

61:9 and their descendents shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the descendents which the LORD has blessed

Jesus implied in Matthew 7:16 that you will know his people by their fruits. The fruit in this verse is not just their personal behavior but also the world they create by the grace of God and his blessing.

61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation, he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth brings forth her bud, and as the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

As described in the second chapter of this book, these verses say the same thing as John 3:16–17. John 3:16 and Isaiah 61:10 talk about personal salvation. John 3:17 implies that nations will be healed, preserved, and rescued out of danger because of the personal salvation in John 3:16. The same is true of Isaiah 61:11. It says the world will be transformed and implies that this is because of the personal salvation and the transformation of individuals in the previous verse. The point that the world will be transformed through those who find eternal life is really driven home by declaring it will be a natural process. This has proven to be so. Look what happened when the people got Bibles!

Mark 4:26–28 [Jesus speaking] And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; 27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knows not how. 28 For the earth brings forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

Daniel Martinovich said:

My question would be then why do these characteristics as you call them mirror what we see happening in this age in the free world?

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They don't. It's very easy to over-write whatever geopolitical story we want onto whatever verse we want - as long as we call that verse 'prophetic' and somehow make it 'about now'.

My question is, how do we know it's about now and not some Old Testament local kingdom that GOT judged? And often the language of that local kingdom falling in history that already actually happened is dressed up in cosmic, heavens falling language. But nevertheless - although the galaxy is still in our night sky - those historical prophecies were fulfilled against those historical kingdoms.

So my question is what grounds do you have for ripping various OT prophecies out of context and making them about our democratic nations now? Did God not know America was coming to actually name it in the OT? Australia? Whoever? I mean, if these prophecies - for whatever reason - are about us - why not name us?

eclipsenow said:

They don't. It's very easy to over-write whatever geopolitical story we want onto whatever verse we want - as long as we call that verse 'prophetic' and somehow make it 'about now'.

My question is, how do we know it's about now and not some Old Testament local kingdom that GOT judged? And often the language of that local kingdom falling in history that already actually happened is dressed up in cosmic, heavens falling language. But nevertheless - although the galaxy is still in our night sky - those historical prophecies were fulfilled against those historical kingdoms.

So my question is what grounds do you have for ripping various OT prophecies out of context and making them about our democratic nations now? Did God not know America was coming to actually name it in the OT? Australia? Whoever? I mean, if these prophecies - for whatever reason - are about us - why not name us?

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Very simply, because the end of the book is the New Jerusalem as defined by the dozens of OT chapters it quotes from.
That is number one, thats the easiest thing to see.

Number two. The scripture is clear that a promised age of a free and more just world would arise after the fourth of four named empires. To them it was prophecy to us it is history.

Thirdly the nature of that promised age as defined by 100 chapters of OT prophecy and Revelation 20-22 is not written in terms of a supernatural utopia. There is sin and war. What those prophecies speak of is a world in which the gospel, the Word of God is the greatest influence among all other influences and due to that influence there would a growing free world. A world in which the earthly promises of God made to a hundred generations of saints, un-fullfilled in their generations could finally start coming to pass in a free world that believers have some say in the way it is run. All of it a process not an event.

And that is exactly what has happened and continues to happen.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Very simply, because the end of the book is the New Jerusalem as defined by the dozens of OT chapters it quotes from.

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The end of Revelation is - yes. But it's written to the Roman Christians - reminding them in apocalyptic symbolism of the gospel promises. Let's look at one example. Instead a message like this:
"When you're being persecuted by Rome remember Satan is behind it all, but even if you're killed God
still loves you and has an amazing future secured for you."

John does the apocalyptic symbolism thing of comparing Rome to the beasts out of the ocean (the direction Rome travelled to get to Asia Minor.) He reminds his audience again and again to suffer with patient endurance, and offers a number of different snapshots of the Lord's return - chapter 6, 19 and 20.

Number two. The scripture is clear that a promised age of a free and more just world would arise after the fourth of four named empires. To them it was prophecy to us it is history.

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Nope. Just that God's kingdom would grow and fill the world. That's us - the church - not 'Of this world' but a kingdom ruled by Jesus from heaven now. THEN when he returns it's judgement day - Revelation 6, 19 and 20. It's the end of this age. It's the beginning of eternity. There is no in between age - and this is quite clear from scripture.

Thirdly the nature of that promised age as defined by 100 chapters of OT prophecy and Revelation 20-22 is not written in terms of a supernatural utopia. There is sin and war.

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I absolutely disagree - but I'm no one. Try this from Riddlebarger. It's on the 2 Ages model

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If we begin with clear passages of Scripture, we can construct a very simple, basic model to help us with the “weirder,” tougher passages. One such approach is known as the “two-age” model. Both Jesus and Paul, for example, speak of “this age” and the “age to come” as distinct eschatological periods of time (Mt 12:32; Lk 18:30; 20:34-35; Eph 1:21). For both our Lord and the apostle, there are two contrasting ages in view. The first age (spoken of as “this age” in the New Testament) is the present period of time before the Second Coming of Christ. The second age, a distinctly future period of time, is referred to as “the age to come.” When these two ages (“this age” and “the age to come”) are placed in contrast with each other, we are able us to look at the qualities ascribed by the Biblical writers to each in such a way that we can answer questions about the timing of the return of Christ and the nature and timing of the millennium.

When we look at the qualities ascribed to “this age” by the biblical writers, we find that the following are mentioned: “homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

By marked contrast however, “the age to come” has an entirely different set of qualities ascribed to it: There will be no forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:32); it is preceded by signs (Mt 24:3); it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.

It is also imperative to see that the same contrasts which Jesus and Paul make between these two ages are in turn related to the one event that forever divides them, the return of Christ. This line of demarcation is expressly stated in Scripture. “The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. . . This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous” (Mt. 13:39-49). These statements are the type of clear and unambiguous texts mentioned earlier. Notice that according to this text judgement occurs immediately at Christ’s return, not after a one-thousand year millennium (as in the premillennial scheme). This is not the only line of Biblical evidence, however, for in addition to this we can find other such statements about the coming of Christ that fit very clearly into the two-age model.

According to Scripture, the resurrection of both the just and the unjust occurs simultaneously. Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24). Thus we told quite clearly that the resurrection of the just occurs on the last day, at the end of this age. In addition, Jesus also proclaims that “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48). Notice that the very same event is also said to be the time of judgment for those who reject Christ. Add to these important passages those additional verses that, relate the trumpet of God to the “last day” and to the return of Christ. The return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.

Thus, we can conclude that “this age” — the period of time Peter calls the “last days” (Acts 2:17), and which Jesus characterizes as a period of birth pains of wars, earthquakes, famine, and distress (Mt 24, Mk 13) — ends with the return of Christ, the resurrection and the judgement on the “last day.” An event that, by the way, Peter describes like the “day of the Lord [which] will come as a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare” (2 Pet 3:10). It is only after this that the age to come will be a present and visible reality. Notice that the focus is not upon a half-way kingdom and somewhat improved temporal age on the earth (i.e., a future millennium).

Instead, the biblical focus is upon the consummation and the summing up of all things with the creation of the new heavens and the new earth! The return of Jesus Christ is the key event in biblical prophecy. For when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, the end of the age, the resurrection, the judgment, and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth are at hand!

Thus the two-age model is very simple in its structure and is based on texts that can only be described as clear and straightforward. This enables us to make the following conclusions about the nature of the New Testament’s teaching regarding the return of Christ and the timing of the so-called “millennial age.”

A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger

Early & highly respected Christian teachers, including Papias (d. 135), Justin Martyr (d. 165), Irenaeus (d. 202), Tertullian (d. ca. 220), and Victorinus (d. 303), expected a literal thousand-year period...when Christ and the saints would rule the nations...within history [which] would follow the pattern of creation. After the first six days (each a thousand years in accord with Psalms 90:4), a sabbath of one thousand years of Messianic earthly reign would precede the eternal kingdom...

The thrones of Revelation 20:4 are the sees of bishops. The conversion of Constantine and the spread of Christianity through the [Roman] empire shows that Satan is confined to the hearts of unbelievers, and the reign of the saints has begun...

Late medieval interpreters such as Alexander Minorita (d. 1271) and Peter Olivi (1248-98) speculated that the thousand years refers to the Church's ascendancy that began with the conversion of Constantine in the early fourth century and would end with the release of Satan in the fourteenth century. The occurrence of the Great Western Schism (1348-1417) and the bubonic plague (1346-53), called the Black Death, confirmed this interpretation in the eyes of some [cp. Fall of Constantinople in 1453, Catholic-Protestant Schism of 1517].

Peter S. Williamson, Revelation (Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture), pp. 329-330

Erik Nelson said:

Early & highly respected Christian teachers, including Papias (d. 135),

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First, I must take the writing of scripture over that of the church fathers. The Holy-Spirit breathed Old Testament shows that 1000 is most often used figuratively when it comes to describing time and theological concepts: and only literally when actually involved in counting numbers of actual things. Do I need to copy and paste all those verses again? That might be the 3rd or 4th time this thread alone.

Second, not all early church fathers agreed with Papias.


Third, it is not logical to extrapolate from Psalms 90:4 that there is any sort of timetable involved. It's not "One day of creation = 1000 years - decode this!" That's an actual distortion of the passage. You're putting far too much weight on 'day' to mean 'day of creation' to then mean 6 days = 6000 years and then finally "Oh look, we're just about up to the millennium boys and girls!" That will not do at all. Why? You've forgotten the other bit of the verse.

A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.

Oops. Please explain where the '6 watches in the night' get us to 6000 years? Selective reading much?

What IS there is a statement that God experiences time differently to us because he is eternal. A thousand years are nothing - a mere day - or a mere watch in the night.

The thrones of Revelation 20:4 are the sees of bishops.

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No, they are the same thrones we saw in early Revelation - the 'control room of heaven' as you will. The martyrs are before the same HEAVENLY THRONES we saw spelled out clearly in Chapter 4. Word studies show thrones in the NT are often heavenly. How does John start the Millennium? Mentioning those same thrones! This is heaven, not the earth.

"Thrones" in Revelation

The message is clear. These are the martyred saints in heaven, where Jesus reigns. They're dead. They 'came to life' in heaven. They're before Jesus in heaven, where he reigns. Where in the passage does it say Jesus returned to earth? It's picture language of our safety in heaven if we should be martyred.

The conversion of Constantine and the spread of Christianity through the [Roman] empire shows that Satan is confined to the hearts of unbelievers, and the reign of the saints has begun...

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And then the Roman empire fell, and all sorts of bad things happened in and outside the church, in and outside the west, as it always has and always will until the Lord returns.

Late medieval interpreters such as Alexander Minorita (d. 1271) and Peter Olivi (1248-98) speculated that the thousand years refers to the Church's ascendancy that began with the conversion of Constantine in the early fourth century and would end with the release of Satan in the fourteenth century. The occurrence of the Great Western Schism (1348-1417) and the bubonic plague (1346-53), called the Black Death, confirmed this interpretation in the eyes of some [cp. Fall of Constantinople in 1453, Catholic-Protestant Schism of 1517].

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Just no. Satan being bound is so much earlier! But also NOT bound the way you're trying to argue!

Surely he’s alive and active now? That’s a good question - but it helps us understand Revelation better. Rev 13 is a picture of Satan inspiring the Roman government persecution against God’s people. But the picture of the safety of God’s people in the next chapter should comfort Christians who went through Hitler’s Holocaust, or Soviet oppression, or even Chinese or North Korean oppression today. So Satan is very much alive and active today. But he is ALSO bound - at exactly the same time. How does this work? We’ve got to understand the imagery is not a geographic reality - Satan being bound in a literal pit - but a theological statement. Satan is bound with regard to 'deceiving the nations' as the gospel goes forward. That shows how ineffectual he is to prevent the growth of God's kingdom. There are now roughly a million Christians in IRAN - where there is intense persecution of Christians. As God's gospel charges into new lands, Satan's ability to 'deceive the nations' is in retreat. The article below summarises this for us:-

“When the seventy returned from their preaching mission, they said to Jesus, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name." Jesus replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:17-18). These words, needless to say, must not be interpreted as suggesting Satan's literal descent from heaven at that moment. They must rather be understood to mean that Jesus saw in the works his disciples were doing an indication that Satan's kingdom had just been dealt a crushing blow—that, in fact, a certain binding of Satan, a certain restriction of his power, had just taken place. In this instance Satan's fall or binding is associated directly with the missionary activity of Jesus' disciples.

Another passage which relates the restriction of Satan's activities to Christ's missionary outreach is John 12:31-32: "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." It is interesting to note that the verb translated "cast out" (ekball) is derived from the same root as the word used in Revelation 20:3, "and threw (ball) him [Satan] into the pit." Even more important, however, is the observation that Satan's being "cast out" is here associated with the fact that not only Jews but men of all nationalities shall be drawn to Christ as he hangs on the cross.

The binding of Satan described in Revelation 20:1-3, therefore, means that throughout the gospel age in which we now live the influence of Satan, though certainly not annihilated, is so curtailed that he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to the nations of the world. Because of the binding of Satan during this present age, the nations cannot conquer the church, but the church is conquering the nations.”

The Millennium of Revelation 20 | Monergism

Original Happy Camper said:

in Revelation 17:15 it says that water represents peoples, nations and tongues.

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Yes - but why are you ripping it out of the context of the immediate passage and making it about Chapter 13? The waters are the waters the great prostitute is sitting on HERE - in the verses immediately preceding! Verse 15 is explaining what John has JUST seen - not something many chapters before!

What does it all mean? I take the historical view on this - mixed in with the possibility that John is using highly symbolic numbers. That is, I think he's referring to Rome (7 mountains) and the fact that a Caesar was mortally wounded but survived, but he's dressing it up in theological language to emphasise how "Babylon" (Rome) is trying to usurp even the gospel (Jesus who died and rose again) in the way they claim to be the answer to all life's pleasures and purposes.

That means we should watch out, because in today's high tech, inappropriate content-saturated world - doesn't 'prostitute' also apply to our pleasure saturated civilisation? Do not we go about actually defining our very identity by our sexuality these days, not as in past generations as "a Christian, a worker, a father, a citizen of a country." But instead "Fulfilled" or "Unfulfilled" sexually - let alone the whole culture wars around LGBT plus issues.

Important Note: All other beasts (kingdoms) rose up from the 'sea' (Daniel 7:3), meaning they rose to power from well populated areas, amongst many different nations. Daniel 7:2 also confirms that the other world powers rose through strife and conflict. Now compare this with the earth beast of Revelation 13 ...

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Absolutely no need - and inappropriate to do so!
Indeed, the beast coming up out of the water could be as simple as a reference to Rome's boats as they disembarked from the west. That is how Rome reached Asia Minor - the sea! Then as the new Caesar was celebrated by the ProConsul in Asia Minor - the beast 'from the earth' is from the local area.

It's not like we get to read Revelation as a blueprint of 'what is going to happen next' because:-

1. John wrote it to his generation as a sermon on suffering, reminding them of the grand vision of the gospel promises we can hold onto in tough times. It's about tyrants - and reminds us that even tyrants will be judged by the true king. It's about when nature is in chaos - and compares that to the judgements against ancient Egypt under Moses. It's about persecution - and reminds us those who stay true will receive a name from the Father. It's about destruction of this world's order - and the renewal of all things under the slain lamb.
   
   
2. If he didn't write Revelation to them, about them, because "The time is near" and "soon" and they were to "take it to heart" (obey it) then John is callous! He's basically saying "You guys think you've got it bad under the Romans - wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!" That's just not consistent with the pastoral concern of John to his generation. We're importing our concerns about today all over the book, and missing its real meaning.
   
   
3. Every generation of futurists thinks theirs is THE generation! They have done since millennial fears started a few hundred years ago with the rise of cults like JW's and Mormons.

Original Happy Camper said:

Is this what you believe?

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You do not believe Revelation 20:7-9 seems descriptive of modern times?

Original Happy Camper said:

Satan has not been bound yet

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Scripture disagrees.
Satan was bound/judged/cast out by Christ's ministry, reversing satan's dominion over the People of God, granting power over all darkness to the saints, and immediately enabling the gospel to spread to all nations.
(John 12:31, Matthew 12:28-29, Hebrews 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).

Erik Nelson said:

You do not believe Revelation 20:7-9 seems descriptive of modern times?

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Modern times such as now? Which could mean this battle might involve tanks, nuclear weapons, etc. I don't get the impression anyone is being surrounded militarily, such as via tanks, ships, planes, etc. If meaning after Christ has returned, all of those military weapons would have been done away with by the time of this battle. IMO, that is what the burning of weapons for 7 years symbolizes in Ezekiel 39, ridding the planet of any 21st century modern day weaponry.