Why people reject the reality of Hell
- Thread starter Cockcrow
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No, we don't say it "simply," we say it, I say it—based on years of study and an understanding of death in Scripture.
You say it simply.
And that is what you are presenting: a very simple understanding that does not present an understanding of death and being "dead" in Scripture. It's just that obvious.
They are already dead.
What part of that can you not understand?
Man is separated from God because of Adam's sin.
Man sins because he is separated from God.
Man is dead in trespasses and sins while he lives his life.
Man will endure the Second Death when cast into the Lake of Fire.
Continued...
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Again, your assertions are absurd due to an ignorance of a Biblical understanding of death.
If you think you had life before being born again then you deny one of the most basic principles we have concerning man's condition in regards to sin and death.
Of course you do.
But now that you have been given a little insight into why your post and assertions are absurd, maybe you will be able to include a little Bible into your philosophy.
God bless.
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Lazarus Short
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I did see this: "Are you going to say no one can have an authoritative position of Bible Doctrine?" I saw no other question in that post. To answer, as just one example, I know that the KJV is also known as the "Authorized Version," which in one sense makes it authoritative. However, that is not the same as being correct. I wrote the essay "Blind Dogs," so I am its author, so I am authoritative. I would rather have a CORRECT position on Biblical Doctrine than an authoritative one. I hope that helps.
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You know, that is a very real possibility: it does get a little boring addressing the same arguments over and over.
Yawn...
The one passage addressing everlasting punishment.
That's a good error to address first:
Mark 9:43-44
King James Version
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Here is a second of many passages addressing everlasting punishment.
What are you going to do with it?
What will you say since your assertion...
...has been shown to be in error?
How then does their worm die? How then is the fire quenched?
I told you...
And here you are again posting the same absurd notion that there are "five conditions for everlasting punishment."
First, are you saying that if these five conditions are met then people will endure everlasting punishment?
Secondly, you ignore the context of the Ten Virgins and fail to place them in the proper Historical Context and this is supposed to mean something to...who?
Third, you did not bother to address my response to your statement the first time around and you ask me to do what you are not willing to do?
I already told you: He is addressing the conditions that will exist at His Return.
Do you really not understand that the Scripture that reveals to us a better understanding concerning Eternal Judgment was not yet given in regards to His Second Coming?
The Jews, including Christ's disciples—thought they would see the fulfillment of all Prophecy concerning the Coming of Messiah. They did not understand that the Lord would die on the Cross, return to His Father's House, and then return again in judgment of the physical world.
How is this relevant to "The one passage of Scripture addressing everlasting punishment by Jesus Christ?"
Perhaps you would show me two clean animals in Matthew 25?
God bless.
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And..."
It's a little humorous to have someone trying to explain what having one's mind opened to understand Scripture when they only see one teaching of Christ concerning Everlasting Punishment in Scripture.
God bless.
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This would have an implied question, but it was not posed as a direct question.
Going beyond whether someone can have an authoritative position, it asks if you think there is a right and a wrong position.
One of these threads implies that there are three positions and it doesn't really matter which one is chosen, because credible "Bible Scholars" hold to all of them.
So directly, is there a right and a wrong position among these views, and secondly, is it okay for someone to choose a wrong view if they so desire?
That is not an answer.
A translation that was "authorized" when it came out is not the same thing as having an authorized position that has an authority Scripture itself.
For example, can a Christian say he has an authorized position that Eternal Redemption is only through the Work of Christ?
Can He have an authorized position that Jesus Christ was born of a woman?
And you might be the author of your essay, but that doesn't lend authority to what you say in it.
Truth is only authorized by what God has given us in His Word. That is the position I take.
God bless.
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JulieB67
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When someone dies they are quickened in the spirit (made alive) but that is the first death. Because the physical/flesh is gone. But at the final judgement, those thrown into the LOF will suffer the 2nd death. The death of the soul. After that, all the former things are passed away, including death. Meaning that's it. Christ explained it Matthew 10:28. If people want to believe that someone has everlasting life in the LOF that's on them but Christ calls it the second death. Death in the Greek is very specific that it's death, not life. That punishment is everlasting in that there's no coming back from that.
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Is there a question here? all i see is the ramblings of an upset person. someone disagrees with me, with my interpretation. I am mad.
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"Quicken" means to make alive. How someone dying is someone being made alive makes absolutely no sense.
And before I respond to the rest of this post I will ask you the same question I asked the member that I addressed the issue of being dead:
Did you have life before being born again? Before you were saved?
Continued...
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Jipsah
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Which is to say that dead never really means dead, and death never really means death, and destroy never really means destroy, ad infinitum. You believe that everyone has eternal life, but that many if not most will spend it being tortured.
Says so right there on your doctrine. Scripture, however, says no such thing. Well... just once. There is one place where it says that one needn't die. "Ye shall not surely die" is the verse. Remember who said it?
The part where you replace what the Bible says with what your doctrine says it has to mean.
But won't actually die even then, at least according to your doctrine. Right?
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In physical death the spirit departs from the body.
They aren't quickened.
Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the Second Death:
Revelation 20:10-15
King James Version
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Continued...
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Jipsah
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Not Biblical understanding, but simply your lot's teaching, which I reject as hogwash. You have to doctor the meanings of words to make the Scripture match your doctrine, which is 180 degrees away from what you should be doing. I'll take it as writtern, thanks, and see no reason to "interpret away" anything it says so spare my a priori beliefs.
You wanna believe that everyone lives forever for good or ill, suit yourself. Scripture says otherwise.
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A "soul" is a person, not an immaterial aspect of man's make-up.
It is proper to say that we see "souls in Heaven" because the spirits of those who passed on are still the person.
It is proper to call someone who is not dead a soul.
Show me the verse that says the Lake of Fire passes away.
It's not in there.
For believers in the Eternal State, yes.
For the Lost who go into everlasting torment, separation, and judgment, no.
I agree: He explains that men should fear God Who has the power to cast into Hell, and has the power to destroy both soul (person) and body in Hell, contrasted with men who can only kill (not destroy) the body.
This has been addressed many times.
This too has been addressed, and addressed in the post you quoted me from:
At no time in either of the two threads I have been involved in, or in any other thread on any forum I have ever been to have I ever said that those who go into Everlasting Punishment/Torment/Judgment have Eternal Life.
It is because you have no clue as to what it means to be either alive or dead in a Biblical Context that you make such ridiculous statements.
And that is just typical tactics for those who cannot support their views with a Biblical Basis.
So let me introduce to a Biblical Principle that is not open for debate: you were dead when you were born into this world. Why? Because you had not yet received Eternal Life through union with God. That union begins when we are baptized into Christ, and until then men are—dead.
John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
So read the verses given you in the previous post. This should be enough for you to get an idea of what "death" means, and why it is important to place its usage in the context it is given in.
So why do you say...
...?
Only those baptized into Christ have everlasting life. That the dead are everlasting doesn't mean they have life.
Again, did you have life before being born again?
Continued...
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I agree. You should back up and read the posts where this concept is discussed.
Because it is apparent you do not understand the concept of life and death from a Biblical perspective either.
I agree.
Hence my opposition to false teachings such as Universal Salvation.
God bless.
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Let's see if we can refine this debate a little:
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Please answer.
God bless.
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Were you alive before being saved?
Please answer.
God bless.
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No, it's the Biblical understanding, and I can prove it.
Did you have life before you were saved?
God bless.
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Take 3 =
Everlasting punishment
Search = "everlasting punishment"
Results = 1 verse found (Matt. 25:46)
The five (5) qualifications for aionios kolasis/ everlasting punishment according to the Master of reconciliation =
1.________________?
2.________________?
3.________________?
4.________________?
5.________________?
You will also note the context.
1. Why pure virgins? (5 wise & 5 unwise), but virgins!
2. Why two clean animals rather than 1 clean and 1 unclean?
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Sorry, but FineLinen's false doctrine doesn't set the standard for Scripture, Scripture sets the standard for FineLinen.
Answer my questions.
How about just one: what animals are mentioned in "the only passage where Jesus Christ teaches everlasting judgment?"
You can persist in ignoring what is being said, but it only shows the inability to engage in honesat discussion.
God bless.
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