"You can't live however you want and still be saved"

Cockcrow said:

that makes zero sense, salvation is not offered to Satan, whether he believes or the demons believe is completely irrelevant to our salvation, Jesus didn't die for Satan, he didn't die for demons, he didn't die for angels he died for sinful human beings that are made in Gods image, who believe and put their faith and trust in Jesus, not of their own works like Jesus and Paul say over and over in scripture, not of works, believe in Jesus to be saved, believe in the son for everlasting life, if you can't understand that then something is wrong. Judas never was saved he always was unsaved from the beginning Jesus knew he was a devil, that example is not relevant to our salvation as outline by Jesus and the Apostle Paul. if you're trusting your works for salvation and not by grace through faith in Jesus, then you're not saved Jesus was absolutely clear. He that hath the son hath life, he that hath not the son hath not life, and the wrath of God abides on him. there is only one way and you are not on that one way if you add any works, or anything to Gods clear word.

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johnjanuary1984 said:

Then 1 Corinthians 12:3 is a lie ?

If Judas believed at one time then OSAS is a lie too.

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Cockcrow said:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
but according to you satan believes therefore this isn't true, calling Jesus a liar

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Cockcrow said:

Judas didn't believe, Jesus chose Judas knowing he wasn't a believer from the beginning, if you want to be saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. nobody trusting in their works is saved. Ephesians 2:8-9

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Cockcrow said:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 13:17-18 If ye know these things, blessed are ye if ye do them. I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled: He that eateth my bread lifted up his heel against me.

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Cockcrow said:

beleiveth can't mean works because Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

you can't lose eternal life, that makes no logical sense. if you have eternal life you don't lose it.

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Cockcrow said:

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jesus said Judas is a devil from the beginning that believed not. Would have been better off if he was never born. Judas was never saved, saying that Judas lost his salvation is not biblical, not what Jesus taught. your opinion about Judas being saved but losing it contradicts Jesus teachings, the Word of God completely debunks this view you have about Judas Iscariot.

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Cockcrow said:

This is what you get accused of constantly if you share the good news and say OSAS trying to win souls to the Lord Jesus Christ, My response to the license to sin false accusers or the James 2 works salvation crowd is that technically someone can still live a completely wicked lifestyle and still be saved,

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Lost4words said:

Have a read of this excellent article. It has a lot of 'truths' in it my friend:

Once Saved, Always Saved, A Verse by Verse Anlaysis ::

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Cockcrow said:

the KJV version
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

let's break this down, first it says not everyone who says Lord Lord, so these are professed Christians that will not enter the Kingdom, why? It says they didn't do the will of the father, what is the will of the father is it good works? John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

so what is the work or will of the father? that you believe on the Son.

the second verse here: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? These are people who are trusting and bragging about their good works they did on Earth, maybe they were a pastor or helped the feed the poor a few times, but the Bible is clear we are not saved by works so these people though they say Lord, Lord, are not believing in him for salvation, rather their own good works. Many false religions believe in doing good works, that isn't the will of the father which is believe on the son.

The last verse And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Now this verse is often falsely used to teach that Jesus is talking about believing Christians who still sin, as "Ye that work iniquity" but is this the true audience of this message those who believe in Christ alone that fall back into sin? look at the first part "And Then I will profess unto them, I never knew you" Jesus professes to these people that he NEVER knew them, not that he knew them for a time, or he knew them when they got saved but then when the believer sinned he lost his salvation NO! that is not what Jesus is saying, he never knew them. Now the last part "Ye that work iniquity" when you take this out of context it does sound like he is talking to everyone who sins. But in the context given in the previous passages he is talking to people he never knew, and are trusting/bragging about their good works.

the reason Jesus says "Ye that work iniquity" is because they are trusting their works, the law to save them, and they didn't believe on the Son which is the will of the Father. the Bible says our good works are filthy rags, that salvation is by grace through faith not works, all who believe on the Son has everlasting life, not themselves, as they realize we are all sinners. Romans 3:23 and deserve hell, Jesus is the only acceptable payment for our sins. These people that Jesus is saying this too didn't believe in faith alone, the free gift of salvation, they believed in their works. And so they will be condemned because there are none righteous, all sin, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


people who rip these verses out of context to teach you can lose salvation or a works based salvation, are the exact people who Jesus will say this too which is ironic.

Jesus was clear he gives eternal life to those that believe in him as the payment for their sins, they will never perish, not because of their works, salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus alone, the will of the father is to believe on the Son, works are not apart of salvation, they won't save you because all have sinned and fallen short, without Grace through faith you will die in your sins, scripture is clear the way is narrow salvation is only through Jesus. it isn't difficult, it is narrow and most people don't want to humble themselves and believe on Jesus alone, they want to add their filthy works so they can feel like they "earned" salvation. But the saved who are trusting Christ alone for their salvation know that no works they can do could ever save them, otherwise we wouldn't need Jesus at all in the first place. Jesus came to save sinners, not to save self righteous, prideful, boasting, holier than thou works salvationists.

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mndgn.j said:

not to mention the parable in Luke 18:10-14
Here's the deal though. If the will of the father is to believe in him then we have to define belief. This part is crucial. Belief means Knowledge or assumption that something is true. Two things happen when you truly believe something is true and this can even can be said of the atheist and anyone else who choose freely to believe whatever they will and do whatever they will. 1 Belief is predictive of our behaviors and 2 ultimately is tied to our linguistic expression. In other words belief in our hearts and confession with our mouths.
If this is true than a true Christian born again of God will want to be in submission to God and Wont be a hypocrite or double minded. I do agree that we all fall short etc. and how can we be free from sin if our own thoughts are considered sin? Well we are righteous thanks to the atonement of Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 5-21
So than if righteous we should practice righteousness, and what does that look like? Constant submission to God otherwise known as the process of sanctification (there is room here for error or sin) as long as we have repentant heart, we bear fruit. My friend I used to believe identical to you, but it was lowkey the stubbornness of my own heart not wanting to submit to God in all things in my life that has kept me clung to that belief system. I am not working to attain salvation, in fact often times I feel like I haven't done much for God. I am a relatively new Christian and I can maintain that I am a wicked sinner, Yet I am saved because of Gods righteousness imputed on me. This is the good news. Will all who claim they believe in Jesus be saved? no. Will all who actually believe and confess be saved? yes. This is the picture of the path being narrow and how few find it. Everyone feel free to chip in. Blessings brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus our lord and savior!

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Cockcrow said:

This is what you get accused of constantly if you share the good news and say OSAS trying to win souls to the Lord Jesus Christ, My response to the license to sin false accusers or the James 2 works salvation crowd is that technically someone can still live a completely wicked lifestyle and still be saved, but there will be consequences on this earth, God is not mocked and he chastises those he loves. Sure we can choose to disobey God, just as a child can disobey their parents, we are adopted sons of God, you will be disciplined, but you don't lose your salvation. God will not forsake you, Jesus died for our sins why would we lose our eternal salvation by sinning when Jesus already took away our sins once and for ever and promised eternal life to all who believe. Us believing in the first place is only possible because of Gods intervention, the Holy Spirit leading us into the truth, to take away people's eternal salvation would contradict Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5, Acts 16:30-31, the entire Gospel of John, all of Jesus' promises of eternal life would be a lie, and would render his death on the cross for sins meaningless if we still have to obey the law and never sin to be saved. If James was truly teaching a works salvation or loss of salvation when it says "faith without works is dead" then that would blatantly contradict both Jesus and Pauls teachings, and we know scripture cannot contradict. the saying "faith without works is dead" implies that faith without works is possible in the first place. nowhere does that say "lose your eternal salvation/you're not saved if you don't do good works"

The main problem with the works salvation bad news (not gospel) is you have people sneaky and dishonest false brethren backloading works into salvation hindering soul winning they will say "well we are not saved by works but true faith will have works" or "truly saved Christians will produce evidence" or "no truly saved Christian will still sin, or practice willful sinning" "if you don't change then you were never saved" saying that someone must produce good works or show outward evidence that they are really saved or get re-saved after losing it. this is the same as teaching a works salvation you're just being dishonest, not upfront about it. "you are teaching a license to sin perverting Gods grace" first off Jude 4 is not talking about OSAS, OSAS doesn't deny the Lord Jesus Christ, it glorifies and gives him all the credit for our salvation, and not works lest any man should boast. Jesus taught eternal security in the Gospel of John and he also never taught that we have a license to sin. why assume I am giving people a license to sin by teaching what the Bible says. and the Bible is clear that salvation is not based on any works and it is a free gift. Jesus died for sins once and for all, he said it is finished, our sins were nailed to the cross. there is no other name that saves, when people cannot separate the flesh and the spirit you get all these crazy works salvation doctrines. Yes it is true you are changed on the inside at the moment of salvation, it is a one time event, you're born again and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, but that doesn't automatically mean you're going to start living a totally different holy sinless perfection life, never sin again and no longer struggle with sin, yes the Bible says all things are become new, but in context this doesn't mean that our fleshly sin nature goes away (Romans 7:14-25) not that we are now sinlessly perfect. we are all sinners Paul was explicitly clear, the flesh is sinful "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Paul said " I die daily" and that the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Galatians 5:17, Paul then goes on to warn us believers about the lusts of the flesh, and all sorts of sins, why would he need to do that if true Christians can't ever sin?

I know many churches teach calvinist/lordship salvation, repent of your sins to be saved false gospels. And many of these street preachers you hear teach conditional security, you can lose salvation, sinless perfectionism. if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us and the flesh is still sinful. going out there preaching that you must turn from all your sins to be saved is not biblical, is getting nobody saved, you're teaching another gospel, you are a lying hypocrite who is just as sinful as everybody else. the Bible and Jesus is clear you can't ever lose salvation, Paul and Jesus both explicitly taught this, before you attack and say "cheap grace, easy believeism" yet Jesus taught this, you're calling Jesus teachings cheap? listen gospel means good news, how is "obey all my commands or lose your salvation" good news? how can anybody go on with life thinking that if they sin one time they lost their salvation, especially when we are all guilty sinners. Jesus promised eternal life to all that believe on him, not temporary life. It is a simple thing, people are complicating it adding works to something that is simple.

should you live however you want after you are eternally secure? No! and I am not promoting that, nor was Jesus or Paul promoting that when they taught we are saved by grace through faith not works. that doesn't mean I am not against sin, and I am not saying that all sin is now ok for the saved and that now you should live however you want and completely disobey God. no that is a false accusation something I never said but get accused of all the time when I evangelize. But in reality I say we are to fear God and keep his commandments, Apostle Paul called himself the chief of sinners and a carnal Christian, don't say you're better than he was, you're not sinlessly perfect, Paul Washer and other Lordship salvation preachers are wrong false gospel works salvation saying there are no such thing as carnal Christians, if that were the requirement for salvation nobody would be saved. And if Paul washer or anyone else wants to say they turned from all their sins they turned from nothing and are hypocrites. None are righteous no not one. and Without the shedding of blood there is no payment for sins. There are still consequences when we sin as saved believers in Christ, but you still have hope and know you're secure and you don't lose salvation because salvation is not by works Jesus paid it all and promised all those who believe in him he will no wise cast out, he gives them eternal life. Yes you can quote out of context verses that never mention salvation or use false bible versions that remove verses or add obedience or make salvation difficult, when our ancestors for hundreds of years used the KJV, Tyndale Bibles they must have all not had the true word of God, only now thanks to these modern versions do we truly have Gods accurate word, yet God promised in Psalms that he would preserve his word for all generations, which would be a lie if the KJV is a false Bible/inaccurate archaic bible like I hear so many false accusers anti-KJV slanderers say. hey, your ancestors all used the KJV it was good enough for them, why is it not good enough for us.

people will use these out of context verses that are not even talking about salvation to teach a works based salvation that you can somehow lose eternal salvation even though you did nothing to earn it in the first place, it was Jesus who did all the work, we just believe on him and are saved. It is "easy" because Jesus made it that way, he said narrow is the way, he didn't say difficult (I know modern versions added the word difficult in Matthew 7:14 changing Gods word) When salvation is clearly brought up in scripture it says believe in Jesus or the will/work of the father which is believe on Jesus. not ROYS or do good works to be saved. salvation is not a process, when the Bible talks about finishing till the end to be saved that is not talking about eternal salvation, Jesus and Paul taught In the New Testament that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus who is the savior, one time sacrifice for sins, not of works lest any man should boast, our good works are filthy rags and can't save anybody, the law doesn't save us, none of us are righteous no not one, Paul said he is the chief of sinners not "I was the chief of sinners but now am sinlessly perfect" no he said I am the chief of sinners the only sacrifice for sins is Jesus he is the only way, if we deny Jesus then there remains no more sacrifice for our sins. all of the False religions teach works salvation, Buddhism teaches you to have repent, Islam says do good works and believe to be saved, even Atheists can do good works, that doesn't save you. Jesus is the only one who says it is not by works, he is the only way.

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Cockcrow said:

you can't lose eternal life, that makes no logical sense. if you have eternal life you don't lose it.

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Cockcrow said:

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Again, if someone proclaims to be saved and yet lives anyway they want they were not saved to begin with.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Same thing, someone can choose not to believe anymore, that's called apostasy -departing from the truth. This person is therefore not saved because they are no longer in that rest because of unbelief. (Hebrews 4)

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

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JulieB67 said:

Back to Christ and James teaching. If you have faith, works will come naturally. It's impossible for a true Christian not to have works.

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