Michigan library defunded after refusing to censor LGBTQ authors

RDKirk said:

In the US, none of the open stacks, whether labeled "children" or "young adult" or "adult" (although I've never seen a section labeled "adult") is in any way guarded to prevent people from wandering in other sections. The labeling is only a guide to the level of books found there, not an access restrictioni.

To prevent a child from finding a book meant only for adults, it would have to be kept "under the desk," in a closed area accessible only to the librarians, requiring a special request.

As I said before, if these books had been kept "under the desk," this problem would likely not have occurred.

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Aldebaran said:

If this "majority of muslims" you speak of are in a country where that is the culture, they can do what they want.

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Bradskii said:

Is a kid going to take a sneak peek at some 'banned book' from the adult section and therefore become sexually immoral? Let's keep a firm hold on reality here.

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rjs330 said:

No I wouldn't. But I also wouldn't force a community to have certain books in their library if they don't want them. That 18 year old can get the book somewhere else. Libraries don't hold everybook in the world. They HAVE to descriminate on what they carry. So a community just says they want the library to their choices not to carry this book. Pick something else.

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Pommer said:

“Sometimes”; who then would be in place to decide which depictions are “educational, entertaining or inappropriate contentography”?

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Bradskii said:

You want to hold a vote for what is suitable for an eighteen year old?

'Thank you for your service, sir. I'm sorry about the loss of your leg. Congratualations on the Distinguished Service medal'.
'Thank you. But I was looking for a particular book I wanted to read. This is the title'.
'Ah, I'm sorry. It's been decided that it's not suitable for you'.

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RDKirk said:

My point is that in American libraries, isn't really an "adult" section. If there is something children should not read, it's going to have to be in the "closed stacks" that require asking a librarian to retrieve.

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BPPLEE said:

Yeah they can go to war but can't drink a beer or buy a can of Skoal

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Bradskii said:

Then set one up in this library. Good grief, this isn't exactly the toughest nut to crack. You're saying that rather have some shelves specifically set up with for books suitable for children - let's say right in front of the reception desk, then the library must shut.

There are such monstrously easy solutions to this perceived problem that it's pretty obvious to me that people are making a religious/political point in closing down the library. And it's those who need it most will lose out.

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RDKirk said:

What we don't know about this situation is whether the library offered a solution like that, or if they simply took a bureaucratic, "We're the experts, we'll make the decision" stance.

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Bradskii said:

IF that is true - and I can't believe that being faced with closure they didn't try for some compromise, then both parties would be at fault.

Whatever happened to reasonable people looking for reasonable solutions to easily solved problems? This isn't trying to solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem for heaven's sake. It's a few books that some people would rather their children not read.

At least I hope it's their children they are worried about and not anyone else's. But I'm not betting any money against the suggestion that some parents want the books to be unavailable to anyone.

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RDKirk said:

But remember, this was never a negotiation between "equals." There is no compromise to be made.

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Bradskii said:

Of course there is. I could run this as an ethics problem for 8 year olds and there'd be half a dozen solutions that they'd make and none of them would be 'shut down the library'.

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RDKirk said:

No, this was clearly not a situation in which "compromise" could be made because obviously the librarians had no power in the situation. The taxpayers, who could decide, "We just won't pay for this"--and in fact did refuse to pay--had all the power. That's not a situation for compromise.

The library could have said, "Okay, if that's the way you feel, we'll do it your way," and then over the next year continue to make their case. Apparently, they didn't realize they had no power in the situation.

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Bradskii said:

IF that is true - and I can't believe that being faced with closure they didn't try for some compromise, then both parties would be at fault.

Whatever happened to reasonable people looking for reasonable solutions to easily solved problems? This isn't trying to solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem for heaven's sake. It's a few books that some people would rather their children not read.

At least I hope it's their children they are worried about and not anyone else's. But I'm not betting any money against the suggestion that some parents want the books to be unavailable to anyone.

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BPPLEE said:

It's called Dearborn from what I hear

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Pommer said:

While the urge to participate in sexual activity is very strong for young people, the knowledge about how to do so is often unavailable to them.
Also the hazards and dangers are usually all that they hear about from adults ashamed by their own sexuality; a frank and open discussion (with pictures or drawings) can be a boon to the uninformed.
Why is this “bad”?

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essentialsaltes said:

Voters in Jamestown Township, a politically conservative community in Ottawa County, rejected renewal Tuesday of a millage that would support the Patmos Library. That vote guts the library’s operating budget in 2023 — 84 percent of the library’s $245,000 budget comes from property taxes collected through a millage.

Voters on Tuesday rejected the millage renewal by a 25-point margin — 62 percent to 37 percent — on the same day voters approved millages for road improvements and the fire department.

Earlier this year, a parent raised concerns about the graphic novel “Gender Queer: A Memoir,” located in the adult graphic novel section. The book tells the story of the author’s coming of age as nonbinary, and includes illustrations of sex acts. [It is still available, but is now kept behind the counter.]

Complaints were filed about several other books, including “Spinning,” a graphic novel about a teen girl and her attraction to other girls, and “Kiss Number 8,” a graphic novel with similar themes. Those books remain on the shelves of the young adult (high-school age) graphic novels section.

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Desk trauma said:

Making people ashamed of their sexuality is a feature, not a bug.

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Bradskii said:

You want to hold a vote for what is suitable for an eighteen year old?

'Thank you for your service, sir. I'm sorry about the loss of your leg. Congratualations on the Distinguished Service medal'.
'Thank you. But I was looking for a particular book I wanted to read. This is the title'.
'Ah, I'm sorry. It's been decided that it's not suitable for you'.

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