Michigan library defunded after refusing to censor LGBTQ authors

Larnievc said:

It’s not about IQ or intelligence it’s about education. The more information a person is exposed to and the more one is taught critical thinking the less religious one is.

There is in fact a positive correlation between leaving school early and religiosity.

Social values, Science and Technology (PDF). Directorate General Research, European Union. 2005. pp. 7–11. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2011-04-30. Retrieved 2011-04-09.

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If it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence then your metric for education being a value seems rather meaningless. Education is not a neutral phenomenon and the current educational environment does not expose students to all forms of knowledge. Most people, simply don't operate that way, they don't seek truth at any cost and they follow the system. Does the average University student read someone like Alvin Plantinga, Thomas Aquinas and others who might challenge their beliefs? No, they read a select section offered to them by the University and those educational materials don't reinforce faith or defend it. Typically the works they are recommended deconstruct faith or presume it's obsolescence.

Most University students graduate and become liberal or left leaning. Is that due to having been exposed to conservative thought or anti-liberal thought? No, it's because they've been predominantly exposed to liberal literature with all the implicit assumptions therein. Change the education and you can change the outcome. All students educated in the medieval universities came out Catholic, most modern students come out of university non-believers and liberal. That could change if another ideological group were to capture the education apparatus.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

If it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence then your metric for education being a value seems rather meaningless. Education is not a neutral phenomenon and the current educational environment does not expose students to all forms of knowledge. Most people, simply don't operate that way, they don't seek truth at any cost and they follow the system. Does the average University student read someone like Alvin Plantinga, Thomas Aquinas and others who might challenge their beliefs? No, they read a select section offered to them by the University and those educational materials don't reinforce faith or defend it. Typically the works they are recommended deconstruct faith or presume it's obsolescence.

Most University students graduate and become liberal or left leaning. Is that due to having been exposed to conservative thought or anti-liberal thought? No, it's because they've been predominantly exposed to liberal literature with all the implicit assumptions therein. Change the education and you can change the outcome. All students educated in the medieval universities came out Catholic, most modern students come out of university non-believers and liberal. That could change if another ideological group were to capture the education apparatus.

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They've known this for a very long time. If you've ever read the Forgotten Man it drives home that point from a historical standpoint. The progressive way back in the early 1900s figured that out and flat out knew they had to alter education in order to obtain their progressive outcomes.

Belk said:

I do? Where did I give the responsibility to the school?

And libraries already determine that is safe appropriate, but that was not your claim. Your claim was they needed to limit books based on what the parents felt appropriate, was it not?

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Were you not against what happened in Florida in regards to the LGBT teachers in the schools despite how the parents felt? How about schools teaching CRT in spite of how the parents felt? That's giving responsibility to the schools. I don't know how many times we've heard from the left that schools should trump parents since they know so much more. Now you want to make the parents responsible?

Schools AND libraries have a responsibility to make sure kids are taught and have access to things that the community and parents say. They don't get to abandoned all responsibility to what kids have access to.

Libraries do not get to decide whats appropriate in a vaccum. They have a community they have to work with. And if the community says no the library should listen.

Belk said:

I do not disagree with the tax payers decision to vote their conscience. I feel it is wrong if them to defund a library based on the refusal to remove a book, but that has nothing to do with my disagreement in the question you quoted. I simply disagree that libraries need to police children based on their parents desires. That is a shifting burden that depends on knowing each parent and is not reasonable to expect of a library.

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This is not about one parent. It's about a community. It is the responsibility to make sure children don't have access to books they shouldn't have access to. And what books they have access to is based upon community standards.

rjs330 said:

Who said anything about controlling speech? You can still buy the books for crying out loud. No one is trying to outlaw the book for Pete's sake. It's just that they don't want it available to the child in the library. Good grief. Libraries are not some sacrosanct holy place where no one can say anything about what goes in.

So what if some LGBT book isn't available for children to look at. There are a bazillion books out there that are just fine and appropriate for a library. If a community doesn't want something who are you to force them to have it?

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This isn’t about what I want. This is about a community deciding for other people what type of books are available in the common library; maybe we don’t want to have about about communism either? How’s that? Yeah, only “good books”, nothing negative or unwholesome, and who gets to decide? Is there someone who would be appointed to make these day-to-day decisions? Yes? What what would we call these dedicate professionals who are in charge of making these decisions, if not librarians?

Pommer said:

If the librarians don’t enforce the community’s political edicts (thought-police) and cities defund the libraries (cementing up the pool) so that nobody can benefit from having a library, then why even pretend that we’re in a civilized society where sexual minorities’ civil rights are protected?
Let’s just go back to ye olden days when these people were shunned and shamed?


Pass.
Hard, hard pass

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I lived in a town in the 60s that actually did cement the pool to avoid integrating it. I walked in the marches to integrate the pool, but instead they filled it in and built a strip mall over it. Nearly 10 years later, they built a new pool...integrated.

But that isn't an appropriate analogy. There is no right for an author to have a book in the library.

rjs330 said:

Just cause you are a degree holder doesn't making you more intelligent or wiser than everyone else.

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On average it does.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

No, they read a select section offered to them by the University and those educational materials don't reinforce faith or defend it.

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Can I ask if you went to university? Just what do you think goes on there?

double post...

rjs330 said:

There is something called community standards. Promoting LGBT ideas to children as an ACCEPTED practice. We are not talking about American Psycho when we know that the practice of rape and killing us not accepted in our communities. And no one is going to say it's perfectlynfine to rape and murder or gas jews in an oven.

We do have people saying it's perf crly normal, acceptable and healthy to be lgbtq despite a large number if the community who says it's not. We are talking about children here in children's sections. And we are talking about communities who believe exposing kids to this is not good. Just like communities have decided inappropriate content is not good for them either.

You are an adult and I would hope that Psycho doesn't influence you. But we know hiw kids can be influenced towards one thing or another. So, this community has made a decision. It's democracy in practice.

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But we're not talking about kids. The books being rejected are in the adult's section. Not the children's section. Would you deny an 18 year old to read whatever he or she wants?

RDKirk said:

And, btw, in any US library I've ever been in, "young adult" has been teenagers for decades and decades.

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Yeah, teenagers such as 17, 18 and 19. It beats me why a library would have a section for 'young adults'. By definition they are adults. But there is no doubt that they'd have a children's section. So keep books that are controversial out of those sections and leave it to parents to decide if their kids can read them.

End of problem. End of story.

Aldebaran said:

Not really. They don't have to know what each parent thinks. It's just like when people vote for a political candidate- it's based on a majority vote, not individual ones. If the parents of a community as a whole do not want certain materials in a library for children to be exposed to, then that material should be removed.

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Gotcha. So if their is a majority of Muslims who decide there should be no access to Christian literature it should be removed from the library? I disagree. The whole point of a library is access to information, not an echo chamber.

Bradskii said:

So keep books that are controversial out of those sections and leave it to parents to decide if their kids can read them.

End of problem. End of story.

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Ban the scary books, defund and close the library, and for those who don't like unelected people making decisions, set up a people's tribunal to try and convict the people who make some in the community uncomfortable.

End of problem, end of story, God bless America and let freedom reign.

rjs330 said:

This is not about one parent. It's about a community. It is the responsibility to make sure children don't have access to books they shouldn't have access to. And what books they have access to is based upon community standards.

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So in this case when the book was in the adult section and then moved to even further restricted access behind the desk the goal was achieved, yes?

Belk said:

So in this case when the book was in the adult section and then moved to even further restricted access behind the desk the goal was achieved, yes?

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The book still exists, thus the threat of converting the children is still real.

Aryeh Jay said:

The book still exists, thus the threat of converting the children is still real.

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The dilemma of the modern book burners, how does one destroy all copies of a book in the digital age?

Aldebaran said:

Magazines aren't the "enemy" either, but it still wouldn't be appropriate to have Playboy or Penthouse magazine in a public library.

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This one should be rejected for its "CRT" take on Rock and Racism.

essentialsaltes said:

different state, but...

Anne Frank adaptation, 40 more books pulled from Texas school district

Back in April, Laney Hawes thought she had saved a graphic novel adaptation of Anne Frank’s diary from being purged from a North Texas school district’s libraries and classrooms.

[The district, after review, acted to keep the book in middle school and high school libraries. But then the make-up of the board changed...]

Patriot Mobile Action, a Christian political action committee based in Texas, endorsed and funded the campaigns of 11 school board candidates across the county, who all won. Three of them joined Keller’s seven-person board of trustees in May. [And the previous approval of the book was unapproved.]

But on Tuesday morning, a school official sent an email telling principals and librarians to pull it off the shelves — along with 40 other books.

[In] November, a parent also voiced opposition to “any variation” of the Bible being in schools. A second challenge followed in December, and while a board review initially determined the Bible would remain at its current library location, it, too, was caught up in Tuesday’s sweep.

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There may be an easy fix to this and it being Texas it might work. Just make the Bible the only authorized text book for English, History, and Science.