De-extinction of Tasmanian Tiger

sjastro

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The tasmanian tiger or thylacine became extinct in 1936.

Scientists in several countries are engaged in dedicated projects to bring extinct animals back from the dead — from the thylacine to the woolly mammoth, the passenger pigeon to the gastric-brooding frog.
Research groups like California-based biotech and conservation company Revive and Restore have been working for years to de-extinct the mammoth and passenger pigeon.

In Australia, thylacine de-extinction research has started and stopped, and recently started again with a $5 million philanthropic investment for the University of Melbourne.
The numbat is a close genetic relative to the thylacine with about 95% of its DNA the same as the thylacine.

file-20220207-85126-dxjt82.png

The idea is to first line up the matching 95 per cent of the two species' DNA, and then try to work out where the remaining 5 per cent of the thylacine DNA fits into the puzzle.
Some of this can be done by finding short lengths of matching base pair sequences, which might indicate a starting point where a longer fragment that has varied through evolution can slot in.

If they can map the complete thylacine genome, CRISPR technology can be used to alter the DNA in a numbat cell, to code for thylacine.


Standard stem cell and reproductive techniques are then used to turn that cell back into a living animal.
 

Brother-Mike

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I guess I have some reservations regarding these efforts:
  1. Given our collective track record at new-species introduction, what makes us think we'd be able to manage or predict how these animals would fare in their target ecosystem. Or how the ecosystem would likewise fare.
  2. Especially for social animals (e.g. thylacines and Passenger Pigeons) it's a guess as to how these animals would socially function. Do we think all of their behaviour is just codified in DNA and healthy and sustainable group dynamics will just reassert themselves? Or do we expect - as is my understanding with the PP team - that we're going to have to "train" to some extent? If so, what makes us think this will be successful, or ethical while potentially many animals first through the breach die during training?
As much as I love animals (which is MASSIVELY!) I can't but help think this is ultimately just an ill-thought out and unethical venture with not a lot to gain other than to say that we can do it. If the thought is "but this will fix some current ecosystem gap/problem" then I'd argue that this is a huge gamble instead of relying on tried-and-true mechanisms such as conservation, multi-national preservation efforts, etc.
 
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lismore

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I’ve seen Jurassic Park, I know how it goes when we try to de-extinct animals.

Jurassic Park 3 was better though- the raptors and humans showed they could get along.
 
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sawdust

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That's assuming it is extinct. There have been numerous sightings in Tasmania and the mainland. If not a Tassie Tiger, something very closely related to it. I'm in the Northern Territory and have my own story of seeing an animal that closely resembled one. The only difference was the size of the ears. The creature I saw had longer upright ears.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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That's assuming it is extinct. There have been numerous sightings in Tasmania and the mainland. If not a Tassie Tiger, something very closely related to it. I'm in the Northern Territory and have my own story of seeing an animal that closely resembled one. The only difference was the size of the ears. The creature I saw had longer upright ears.
I wonder how compatible the DNA is
 
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Estrid

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I guess I have some reservations regarding these efforts:
  1. Given our collective track record at new-species introduction, what makes us think we'd be able to manage or predict how these animals would fare in their target ecosystem. Or how the ecosystem would likewise fare.
  2. Especially for social animals (e.g. thylacines and Passenger Pigeons) it's a guess as to how these animals would socially function. Do we think all of their behaviour is just codified in DNA and healthy and sustainable group dynamics will just reassert themselves? Or do we expect - as is my understanding with the PP team - that we're going to have to "train" to some extent? If so, what makes us think this will be successful, or ethical while potentially many animals first through the breach die during training?
As much as I love animals (which is MASSIVELY!) I can't but help think this is ultimately just an ill-thought out and unethical venture with not a lot to gain other than to say that we can do it. If the thought is "but this will fix some current ecosystem gap/problem" then I'd argue that this is a huge gamble instead of relying on tried-and-true mechanisms such as conservation, multi-national preservation efforts, etc.
You think Tasmania has changed so much since 1936 ?
 
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.Mikha'el.

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The tasmanian tiger or thylacine became extinct in 1936.

Scientists in several countries are engaged in dedicated projects to bring extinct animals back from the dead — from the thylacine to the woolly mammoth, the passenger pigeon to the gastric-brooding frog.
Research groups like California-based biotech and conservation company Revive and Restore have been working for years to de-extinct the mammoth and passenger pigeon.

In Australia, thylacine de-extinction research has started and stopped, and recently started again with a $5 million philanthropic investment for the University of Melbourne.
The numbat is a close genetic relative to the thylacine with about 95% of its DNA the same as the thylacine.

file-20220207-85126-dxjt82.png

The idea is to first line up the matching 95 per cent of the two species' DNA, and then try to work out where the remaining 5 per cent of the thylacine DNA fits into the puzzle.
Some of this can be done by finding short lengths of matching base pair sequences, which might indicate a starting point where a longer fragment that has varied through evolution can slot in.

If they can map the complete thylacine genome, CRISPR technology can be used to alter the DNA in a numbat cell, to code for thylacine.


Standard stem cell and reproductive techniques are then used to turn that cell back into a living animal.

I'm not convinced this is scientifically doable.
 
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sjastro

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I guess I have some reservations regarding these efforts:
  1. Given our collective track record at new-species introduction, what makes us think we'd be able to manage or predict how these animals would fare in their target ecosystem. Or how the ecosystem would likewise fare.
  2. Especially for social animals (e.g. thylacines and Passenger Pigeons) it's a guess as to how these animals would socially function. Do we think all of their behaviour is just codified in DNA and healthy and sustainable group dynamics will just reassert themselves? Or do we expect - as is my understanding with the PP team - that we're going to have to "train" to some extent? If so, what makes us think this will be successful, or ethical while potentially many animals first through the breach die during training?
As much as I love animals (which is MASSIVELY!) I can't but help think this is ultimately just an ill-thought out and unethical venture with not a lot to gain other than to say that we can do it. If the thought is "but this will fix some current ecosystem gap/problem" then I'd argue that this is a huge gamble instead of relying on tried-and-true mechanisms such as conservation, multi-national preservation efforts, etc.
You can also add the Earth is on the brink of a sixth mass extinction where resources should be spent on preventing the extinction of further species instead of bringing extinct species back to life.
There are also the ethical issues when CRISPR is applied for designer babies.

Important+Information%3A.jpg
 
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Brother-Mike

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You think Tasmania has changed so much since 1936 ?
Very valid point Estrid - but I would still bet against our ability to know the actual ecosystem impact, for better or worse. These were apex-predators so it’s undoubtable they’ll have a ripple effect to the entire food chain.
 
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Estrid

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Very valid point Estrid - but I would still bet against our ability to know the actual ecosystem impact, for better or worse. These were apex-predators so it’s undoubtable they’ll have a ripple effect to the entire food chain.

Do you understand the need for a large apex predator?

Have you read about the effect of returning wolves to
Yellowstone?

If a few Taz wolves had survived should
they be killed? Why or why not.


Your concerns seem not well grounded.
 
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Estrid

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Brother-Mike

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Do you understand the need for a large apex predator?

Have you read about the effect of returning wolves to
Yellowstone?

If a few Taz wolves had survived should
they be killed? Why or why not.


Your concerns seem not well grounded.
Well Estrid, if we’re standing at a roulette table and I was to bet all my chips, I’d put them on the “we likely don’t understand all of the dynamics of any natural system and history has only proven out time and time again our hubris in presuming otherwise” color

I respect your right to feel and express otherwise
 
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AV1611VET

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Bringing these things back from the past isn't cool.

We need to know what made them go extinct in the first place.

Bringing them back, when we don't know what kind of environment to put them in will just cause them suffering.

Imagine the hummingbird going extinct because there are no longer any plants that produce nectar; then bringing the hummingbird back from the past.
 
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keith99

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Bringing these things back from the past isn't cool.

We need to know what made them go extinct in the first place.

Bringing them back, when we don't know what kind of environment to put them in will just cause them suffering.

Imagine the hummingbird going extinct because there are no longer any plants that produce nectar; then bringing the hummingbird back from the past.

Then you are good with bringing back passenger pigeons, we just need to keep women's hats under control!
 
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Estrid

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Well Estrid, if we’re standing at a roulette table and I was to bet all my chips, I’d put them on the “we likely don’t understand all of the dynamics of any natural system and history has only proven out time and time again our hubris in presuming otherwise” color

I respect your right to feel and express otherwise

We understand your approach to biology is
emotional in nature ("MASSIVE" love, and all
that rot), rather than of a rational nature or
one based on any degree program or actual thought.

Either would have helped you avoid such twaddle as your
odd quote about understanding all dynamics, an obvious
impossibility.

People are churning the Earth's ecosystem in about
every imaginable way, which likely will have consequences
beyond reasonable imagination. This is hardly news.

It seems generally advisable to take some action.

The approach you advocate would put a halt to all
human activity, withal not such a bad idea, but not
one that will be adopted.

If the less than zero respect shown in your strawman is
normal for you, you must be very lonely.
 
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Petros2015

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There are also the ethical issues when CRISPR is applied for designer babies.

Good movie sci-fi movie on this topic (society where nearly everyone has been modd'd) But in general, I'm all for CRISPR modd'ing away nasty genetic bombs. My brother has a particularly cruel one.
 
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Brother-Mike

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We understand your approach to biology is
emotional in nature ("MASSIVE" love, and all
that rot), rather than of a rational nature or
one based on any degree program or actual thought.

Either would have helped you avoid such twaddle as your
odd quote about understanding all dynamics, an obvious
impossibility.

People are churning the Earth's ecosystem in about
every imaginable way, which likely will have consequences
beyond reasonable imagination. This is hardly news.

It seems generally advisable to take some action.

The approach you advocate would put a halt to all
human activity, withal not such a bad idea, but not
one that will be adopted.

If the less than zero respect shown in your strawman is
normal for you, you must be very lonely.
You’re right on one point Estrid - I am lonely occasionally, but then I remember that I am never alone with the Father, Son and Spirit :relaxed:
 
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