Are Christians allowed to enjoy wine?

Are Christians allowed to enjoy wine?

  • yes

    Votes: 23 95.8%
  • no

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • Total voters
    24
Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,333.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Here is St. Paul’s medical advice to his disciple Timothy:

St. Paul’s medical advice to his disciple Timothy, “use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments,” holds up pretty well according to some recent studies:

Scientists have found that components of red wine seem to improve intestinal health, promoting the growth of beneficial bacteria. Research on human subjects is limited. But one recent study that examined the claim was published in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.


In it, a small number of healthy adults were instructed to avoid all alcohol for two weeks — a so-called washout period.

Then they went through three separate phases of 20 days each. In one, the subjects drank red wine, about a cup daily. In another, they drank the same amount of red wine daily, but this time with the alcohol removed. In the third, they drank up to 100 milliliters a day of gin each day.

In the end, the researchers found that both types of red wine produced improvements in the bacterial composition of the gut, lowered blood pressure and reduced levels of a protein associated with inflammation. Slight improvements in gut flora were seen among gin drinkers, but the effects in the wine drinkers were much more pronounced.


Luke may have been the apostle with medical training, but science is vindicating Paul’s homespun remedy.

St. Paul Was Right: Drink Wine for Your Health | Matthew Schmitz
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,307
10,593
Georgia
✟909,760.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Now:

17 voters say "yes".
1 voter says: "no".

The Bible says "no".


1) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
2) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
3) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
5) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
6) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
7) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
8) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
9) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
10) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
11) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
12) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
13) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
14) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
15) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
16) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
17) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
18) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

19) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
20) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

21) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
22) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
23) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
 
Upvote 0

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,333.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
They used "grape beverage"

There is no non-alcoholic "grape beverage".
This "grape beverage" is just a play on words.
Just as if you would call beer and whisky "barley beverages".
And cherry brandy a "cherry beverage".

:)
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,307
10,593
Georgia
✟909,760.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The Bible says "yes" often enough. :)

only in contexts where the drug alcohol is not required as being included in the definition for it, as I show from scripture, in the post you quote a tiny snip from. This one #22
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,307
10,593
Georgia
✟909,760.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I know that it is available in our times, but not in biblical times. :)

in Biblical times grape juice was had by crushing grapes... like we do it today.
It was preserved over time - by either boiling or filtering or at least two other options known to have been in use at that time.

Did The Ancients Know How To Keep Wine From Fermenting?.

"in the Roman world of New Testament times, the best wines were those whose alcoholic potency had been removed by boiling or filtration. Pliny, for example, says that "wines are most beneficial (utilissimum) when all their potency has been removed by the strainer."12 Similarly, Plutarch points out that wine is "much more pleasant to drink" when it "neither inflames the brain nor infests the mind or passions"13 because its strength has been removed through frequent filtering."


Quotes Bacchiocchi

“The process of fermentation occurs only in the presence of certain conditions such as a moderate temperature, moisture and air in the grape juice. Now there are four major methods known to the ancients by which these conditions can be altered or eliminated and thus grape juice be preserved fresh and unfermented….This method of preserving grape juice unfermented by carefully boiling it down to a syrup was commonly and successfully used in the ancient world….Several reasons lead us to believe that the boiling process was most probably used also in ancient Israel to preserve grape juice. The art of making and preserving wine was common to Mediterranean countries where viticulture prevailed, and has survived to the present. 10 There are indications that the ancient Jews preserved wine by boiling it….Another method by which the fermentation of grape juice can be prevented is by separating the albumen, which is located in the lining of the skin and in the envelope of the seeds of the grape, from the other elements….The fermentation of grape juice can be prevented also by keeping it below 40º F (4º Celsius). Nearly all processes of fermentation cease at about 40º F….The ancients were familiar with this method of preservation….The fermentation of grape juice can also be prevented by the fumes of sulphur dioxide….The use of sulphur to preserve wine was known in the ancient world….The ancient testimonies surveyed indicate that at least four methods were known and used in ancient times to preserve grape juice unfermented: (1) boiling the juice down to a syrup, (2) separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, (3) placing the grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water, (4) fumigating with sulphur the wine jars before sealing them.” (Samuele Bacchiocchi, Wine In The Bible: A Biblical Study On The Use Of Alchoholic Beverages, 418-576 (Kindle Edition); Biblical Perspectives)”​
 
Upvote 0

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,333.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
OK, OK then.
So Jesus never had any wine.
Nor was there any wine at the wedding at Cana.
OK, OK. :)

And anybody who drinks wine will be condemned to go to hell, as "true Christians" never drink any wine.

OK now? :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

Gregorikos

Ordinary Mystic
Dec 31, 2019
1,095
887
Louisville, Kentucky
Visit site
✟113,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
They used "grape beverage" but not alcohol because the Lord's Supper in the continued form of the Passover meal and is not celebrated with yeast. Not even wine yeast.

Then how did they get drunk on it? (1 Corinthians 11:21)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Red Gold

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2019
3,175
781
77
Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, Germany
✟95,333.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It's noteworthy that the Corinthian Christians used alcoholic wine for the Lord's Supper. Paul rebuked them for over-indulging and refusing to share their wine with others, but didn't rebuke them at all for having alcoholic beverage in the church. (1 Corinthians 11:18-22)

So obviously Paul was fine with it. Just don't over-indulge, and don't forget to share!

How could this have been possible, when in biblical times nobody had any real wine, but only a timid "grape beverage" - as we were told today? :(

Soon we well be told that at the Last Supper there was neither lamb nor wine, but only very small portions of strictly vegan tofu and a small cup of luke-warm water .....

:(
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Gregorikos
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
55,168
8,129
US
✟1,096,346.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
MOD HAT ON

DUE TO MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

This forum is for fellowship, not debate.


241634_a435e7c864cf3d1d54069d68f79ef38b_thumb.jpg


MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.