Who Saved You and Why?

Soyeong said:

That adds more information to what it means to be a follow of Christ, but does not detract from the fact that a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ.

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It adds more of that which without one is not a follower of Christ, for one could meet your definition and still not be a Christian.

I know "followers" of Christ apart from Christianity.

Clare73 said:

It adds more of that which without one is not a follower of Christ, for one could meet your definition and still not be a Christian.

I know "followers" of Christ apart from Christianity.

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The name "Christian" comes from a Latin word that literally means "follower of Christ", so that is by definition what it means to be a Christian, and by any standard that someone qualifies as a follower of Christ, they also qualify for as a Christian. Everyone who is following Christ's example of obedience to God's law is a follower of Christ/Christian and everyone who is not a Christian is also not a follower of Christ.

Soyeong said:

The name "Christian" comes from a Latin word

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Actually, it is from the Greek word, christianos (Acts 11:26).

that literally means"follower of Christ", so that is by definition what it means to be a Christian,

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However, it is authoritative NT apostolic teaching, not a dictionary, which determines the meaning of "follower of Christ."

And authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that a Christian is
1) born again of the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-8),
2) believes in and trusts on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous (justified) with Christ's righteousness of the cross which paid the penalty for his sin (Romans 5:18b), and
3) who by the Holy Spirit walks in obedience (Romans 6:16, 19) to the New Covenant commands (Romans 13:8-10).

Old Lady said:

Whether God gives you genuine faith or uses threats to convert a person is a matter of debate. For instance the Bible is filled with threats but Christians don't seem to mind.

The Bible mentions the following threats:

the wrath of God

fear and trembling

hell

Salvation is the carrot:

If you are saved, you will avoid the wrath of God and not go to an eternity of hell. Who disagrees?

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God doesnt use threats to save, thats law salvation. God draws His People with Lovingkindness Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

The Gospel to those God saves, is a Gospel of Peace Rom 10 15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6 15

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Acts 10 36

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Brightfame52 said:

God doesnt use threats to save, thats law salvation. God draws His People with Lovingkindness Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

The Gospel to those God saves, is a Gospel of Peace Rom 10 15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6 15

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Acts 10 36

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

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In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of peace, yet you act like the Gospel of peace is somehow a negative thing that is about establishing our own righteousness.

Clare73 said:

Actually, it is from the Greek word, christianos (Acts 11:26).

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"1520s as a noun, "a believer in and follower of Christ;" 1550s as an adjective, "professing the Christian religion, received into the Christian church," 16c. forms replacing Middle English Cristen (adjective and noun), from Old English cristen, from a West Germanic borrowing of Church Latin christianus, from Ecclesiastical Greek christianos, from Christos (see Christ). First used in Antioch, according to Acts xi.25-26:"

It does come from the Latin, though the Latin was borrowed from the Greek, but in any case "christianos" means "follower of Christ", so you're still trying to make a false distinction.

However, it is authoritative NT apostolic teaching, not a dictionary, which determines the meaning of "follower of Christ."

And authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that a Christian is
1) born again of the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-8),
2) believes in and trusts on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous (justified) with Christ's righteousness of the cross which paid the penalty for his sin (Romans 5:18b), and
3) who by the Holy Spirit walks in obedience (Romans 6:16, 19) to the New Covenant commands (Romans 13:8-10).

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A follower of Christ is tautologically someone who follows what Christ taught. In 1 John 2:6, we are told that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, in 1 Peter 2:21-22, we are told to follow his example, and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ. What you described as being a Christian are all in accordance with following what Christ taught because those who are born again of the Spirit follow Christ's example of obedience to God's law, which is why Romans 8:4-14 contrasts those who are born of the Spirit with those who refuse to submit to God's law. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (Acts 21:20). Likewise, in Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27, the New Covenant still involves following God's law and the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it.

soy

In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand,

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Thats no threat. Peter told some people to repent Acts 2:38-39 but it wasn't any threatening.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

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I can see now you a salvation by law keeping, threatening lol Get saved or else

Old Lady said:

1. IOW, what or Who causes a person to become a Christian?
2. My questions usually result in more questions. I apologize in advance.

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It's a simple question with a simple answer...we are saved by God's grace, through faith.

We don't save ourselves, but we must submit to the spirits leading before he will save us.

renniks said:

It's a simple question with a simple answer...we are saved by God's grace, through faith.

We don't save ourselves, but we must submit to the spirits leading before he will save us.

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Thats works, salvation conditioned on man !

Soyeong said:

"1520s as a noun, "a believer in and follower of Christ;" 1550s as an adjective, "professing the Christian religion, received into the Christian church," 16c. forms replacing Middle English Cristen (adjective and noun), from Old English cristen, from a West Germanic borrowing of Church Latin christianus, from Ecclesiastical Greek christianos, from Christos (see Christ). First used in Antioch, according to Acts xi.25-26:"

It does come from the Latin, though the Latin was borrowed from the Greek, but in any case "christianos" means "follower of Christ", so you're still trying to make a false distinction.

A follower of Christ is tautologically someone who follows what Christ taught. In 1 John 2:6, we are told that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, in 1 Peter 2:21-22, we are told to follow his example, and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ. What you described as being a Christian are all in accordance with following what Christ taught because those who are born again of the Spirit follow Christ's example of obedience to God's law, which is why Romans 8:4-14 contrasts those who are born of the Spirit with those who refuse to submit to God's law.

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In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works,
so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (Acts 21:20).

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Your bootstrapping falls apart at this link.
How many times must this be explained to you?

Many who deny Jesus Christ are "zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law," and therefore do not "believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus."

It's not complicated.

Brightfame52 said:

soy



Thats no threat. Peter told some people to repent Acts 2:38-39 but it wasn't any threatening.



I can see now you a salvation by law keeping, threatening lol Get saved or else

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Likewise, when Peter told his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, God's law was how they knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so he was telling them to obey it, but you oppose his message. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying it, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it.

Clare73 said:

Your bootstrapping falls apart at this link.
How many times must this be explained to you?

Many who deny Jesus Christ are "zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law," and therefore do not "believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus."

It's not complicated.

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All those who believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law, though not everyone who is zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus because the law can be obeyed for other reasons that are missing the whole goal of the law, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to obey it.

Brightfame52 said:

Thats works, salvation conditioned on man !

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In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly and to renounce doing what is ungodly. Do you think that someone who rejects God's grace by refusing to participate in this training is still being saved form doing what is ungodly?

Soyeong said:

All those who believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law, though not everyone who is zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law believe in and trust on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus

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And for that reason, they are condemned (John 3:18).

Soyeong said:

Likewise, when Peter told his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, God's law was how they knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so he was telling them to obey it, but you oppose his message. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying it, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it.

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Peter didnt threaten no one. The Gospel isnt a bunch of threats.

Soyeong said:

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly and to renounce doing what is ungodly. Do you think that someone who rejects God's grace by refusing to participate in this training is still being saved form doing what is ungodly?

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Titus 2:11-14 isnt about any threats and laws.

Brightfame52 said:

Titus 2:11-14 isnt about any threats and laws.

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Has God give any laws for how to do what is godly or for how to renounce doing what is ungodly?

Brightfame52 said:

Peter didnt threaten no one. The Gospel isnt a bunch of threats.

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I didn't say anything about threatening anyone.

Clare73 said:

And for that reason, they are condemned (John 3:18).

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Though again, all who have faith in the atoning are zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law, and for this reason we are in Christ and there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

Soyeong said:

Though again, all who have faith in the atoning are zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law, and for this reason we are in Christ and there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

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According to NT apostolic teaching, we are in Christ for the reason of our faith.