Douggg

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Satan never took on a discernible physical form in the Bible, he will operate through two human beings whom he has endowed with power. The Antichrist and False Prophet will be flesh and blood just like everyone else. But whereas the AC derives his power directly from Satan, the FP will, in turn, receive his power from the AC.
I think a better way to put it is the hierarchy of evil will be...
Satan, the beast, the false prophet.

The beast and the false prophet both get power from Satan to do different things.

At Jesus's return to stand on the Mt of Oiives directly across from the temple mount, where the beast and the false prophet will be, as well as the abomination of desolation statue image incarnated by Satan - the statue image will be turned to ashes and Satan will be exposed in his form for all to see him. I get that from Ezekiel 28:16-19.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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The little horn comes with a strong army into the pleasant land from the territory once part of Alexander's four break up kingdoms.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

So the location he comes from is north and west of Israel. Greece was one of the four break-up kingdoms and is now the eastern boundary of the EU. North and west of Israel.


I don't know that the little horn person will be the leader of the EU, in the same sense as the President of the United States, or Prime Minister of Canada, but he will be over ten EU kings, i.e. leaders as a group. To me, it is looking more and more like a military alliance pact. It is going to be more clear as we move forward.

Anyway, the little horn will not be the President of the United States - wrong geographical location. And the United States is not part of the old Roman Empire fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.

And in Daniel 9:6, the person is from the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary - the Romans.

_______________________________________________

There is also a tendency, I think, that many people compare the Antichrist to the rise of Adolph Hitler as a pattern to model their eschatology from. An egotistical politician who turns into ruthless dictator, seeking to rule the world.

That's going to lead to some major wrong conclusions if a person takes that approach.

The way to understand the eschatology involving that person we are talking about is to consider his career - and break it down into the five blocks, or roles, for our analysis.

Which in shorthand form is...

little horn > prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed

man of sin > the beast.
I understand your argument, however, the US is definitely north and west of Israel. Additionally, the passage says the little horn waxed toward the south AND the east AND toward the pleasant land.
I do agree with the military alliance aspect of your discussion. I believe that the Antichrist will form an alliance with the future EU defense pact, military alliance led by 10 generals from the most prominent EU countries.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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The little horn comes with a strong army into the pleasant land from the territory once part of Alexander's four break up kingdoms.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

So the location he comes from is north and west of Israel. Greece was one of the four break-up kingdoms and is now the eastern boundary of the EU. North and west of Israel.


I don't know that the little horn person will be the leader of the EU, in the same sense as the President of the United States, or Prime Minister of Canada, but he will be over ten EU kings, i.e. leaders as a group. To me, it is looking more and more like a military alliance pact. It is going to be more clear as we move forward.

Anyway, the little horn will not be the President of the United States - wrong geographical location. And the United States is not part of the old Roman Empire fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.

And in Daniel 9:6, the person is from the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary - the Romans.

_______________________________________________

There is also a tendency, I think, that many people compare the Antichrist to the rise of Adolph Hitler as a pattern to model their eschatology from. An egotistical politician who turns into ruthless dictator, seeking to rule the world.

That's going to lead to some major wrong conclusions if a person takes that approach.

The way to understand the eschatology involving that person we are talking about is to consider his career - and break it down into the five blocks, or roles, for our analysis.

Which in shorthand form is...

little horn > prince who shall come > the Antichrist > the revealed

man of sin > the beast.
I also think it is important to consider:

5While I was observing, behold, a male goat was coming from the west over the surface of the entire earth without touching the ground;

The Goat (US military- who consider themselves the greatest of all time) flies across the ocean to engage their enemies.
 
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Douggg

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I understand your argument, however, the US is definitely north and west of Israel. Additionally, the passage says the little horn waxed toward the south AND the east AND toward the pleasant land.
I do agree with the military alliance aspect of your discussion. I believe that the Antichrist will form an alliance with the future EU defense pact, military alliance led by 10 generals from the most prominent EU countries.
In Daniel 9:26, the person is from the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary - the Romans. That would eliminate the person coming out of the western hemisphere.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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The people of the prince to come (the Antichrist) are Americans who involved in the destruction of Jerusalem.
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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The second beast has the mouth of a lamb speaking like a lion/dragon. Where's the difference?
It says the first beast has a mouth like a lion. Not that the first beast speaks like a lion.

The second beast speaks like a dragon, not like a lion.

By the way:
Abraham wasn't a Jew... he had a great-grandson named Judah.
In Exodus 3:

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

That's what the does not regard the God of his fathers in Daniel 11:37 is referring to. The person will be a Jew.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
 
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Douggg

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The people of the prince to come are the 10-horns that will destroy the harlot.
Do you believe in coincidence?
No it is not a coincidence. The harlot is the Vatican, which despite all of it faults says that Jesus is God, which will run against the beast's claim of being God.

The Vatican has held strong influence over the European kings for a long long time, and during the time of the beast, there will be resentment by the European kings for having to accommodate the Vatican.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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No it is not a coincidence. The harlot is the Vatican, which despite all of it faults says that Jesus is God, which will run against the beast's claim of being God.

The Vatican has held strong influence over the European kings for a long long time, and during the time of the beast, there will be resentment by the European kings for having to accommodate the Vatican.
I agree that the harlots is the Vatican. I also believe that the False Prophet will become pope while declaring the Antichrist and the Messiah returned.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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The Vatican has more authority over superstitious people. The influence over the indigenous European peoples came much later. Overlord kings didn't represent their stolen kingdoms any more than professional politicians represent the general pubic. The peasants under serfdom were at the mercy of whatever kings the Vatican crowned: it wasn't until the Germanic races that the Vatican took control of Britain.
The Papal States, the first official home of the Holy See, were presented to the papacy in 756 AD by Pepin the Short, the father of Charlesmange.
After Pepin's death, the Catholic Church crowned Charlesmagne emperor of the Holy Roman Empire on December 25th 800AD, thereby usurping Jesus on his earthly birthday. This blasphemous act was an abomination.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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Ιησους probably wasn't born at the winter solstice.
Wasn't that date made up by Rome in the first place? Some say that was Mithras birthday... that he was being worshipped under the title Sol Invictus by the Roman legions. And that they carried this worship into every land they even attempted to conquer. Mithraism is found in crypts and underground grottos... and people seem to think these were Christian sites.
I'd laugh if it weren't so tragic.

I've been researching Messiah's actual birthday, and this is the closest I could get... Skip over the occult (it only means hidden) and mysticism words, and see what you think:

"Now the traditions of the Occult Orders inform us that at last the Magi witnessed a peculiar conjunction of planets; first, the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, in the Constellation of Pisces, the two planets being afterward joined by the planet Mars, the three planets in close relation of position, making a startling and unusual stellar display, and having a deep astrological significance. Now, the Constellation of Pisces, as all astrologers, ancient and modern, know, is the constellation governing the national existence of Judea. ... the calculations of Modern Astronomy show without possibility of contradiction that in the Roman year 747 (or seven years before the Christian Era) the planets Saturn and Jupiter farmed a conjunction in the Constellation of Pisces, and that these two planets, still in close position to each other, were joined by the planet Mars in the Spring of 748. The great astronomer Kepler first made this calculation in the year 1604, and it has been since verified by modern calculations. To those who would object that all this occurred seven years before the commonly accepted date of the birth of Christ, we would say that any modern work on New Testament Chronology, or any encyclopedia or reference work on the subject, will show that the former calculations were several years out of the way, and that the records of other events mentioned in the Bible, such as the "enrollment" of the people, which brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, enable modern Biblical scholars to fix the date of the birth of Christ at about six or seven years before the usually accepted time. So that modern research fully corroborates the astrological record and the Mystic traditions."
--Mystic Christianity, by Yogi Ramacharaka

That Magi thing... from Anatolia? (the Greek word for East, or Rising)... all comes from Luke... who wasn't there, so where'd he get his information?

The Syrian mystery cult may have come from Babylon:
Chapter 13: From Babylon to Syria
"The Seleucid Capital Moved West to Antioch"
Chapter 15: The Seleucid Capital Moved West to Antioch

I only just found this website, and haven't checked his source material... so I'm not saying whether or not I believe him... it's just food for thought. And he's not using the Septuagint that I use, either. But it is sort of fascinating, so far. Cumont I have somewhat read... Lenormant speaks of magic in Babylon, so no surprise there, either... given the tablets that were found and translated.

But Mithras I have done some research on... as much as my stomach could take, anyway... and I don't have much doubt about his birthdate of 12/25... the mystery cults are full of solstice and equinox worship-events. It's the main reason why I first started doubting the common-man's date of Messiah's birth.
I agree that Jesus was not born on December 25th, in fact I believe that he was born on December 4th, 7 BC on the third conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter that year.
However, Christians across the world
celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th, and the papacy should have known better than to crown an emperor on that day. It was blasphemous.
 
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earthmover

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Saying He was born when He wasn't also defames Ιησους... making Him into some Mithras-wanna-be... (shudder) I'm going with a spring birth and Mars... I can't help thinking about the sword He brought to separate mankind... which would otherwise be ALL walking to the drum of the antichrist.

it is more likely that it was in the fall (Sept,Oct,Nov)that Jesus was born......

earthmover
 
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earthmover

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Here is my timeline and dates for Daniels 70-weeks prophecy.

Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city… Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks …
And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; … he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined is poured out on the desolate.” (Daniel 9:24-27 NKJV abbrev.)

View attachment 319178

As you can see, I have it starting 457 BC date being Artaxerxes' 7th year. However, there have been no small number of differences when it comes to the terminus a quo of Daniels weeks. Some say the first year of Cyrus in 538 BC. Others say Darius (520 BC) Still others, Artaxerxes' 20th year (444 BC)

As if that wasn’t as all over the place enough, the crucifixion of Jesus – the high point of the prophecy – has ranged from AD 29 to AD 33!

We could do without the muddle and, as you can see, the diagram shows exactly 7 + 62 + ½ weeks from the emperor’s decree until the cross. Let’s discuss.

The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C. You need to re-calculate from that point forward.

This information can be read in the"Coming Prince" bySir Robert Anderson.

earthmover
 
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Christian Gedge

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The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C. You need to re-calculate from that point forward.

This information can be read in the"Coming Prince" bySir Robert Anderson.

earthmover
Yes I’ve got a copy of the ‘Coming Prince,’ and also Hoehner’s adjustment to Anderson. There are serious problems with the theory, not the least of which is a mythical 360-day year. Also a reading of Nehemiah does not give the day of the month. Anderson claimed it was on the first day of the month without any proof whatsoever.
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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Saying He was born when He wasn't also defames Ιησους... making Him into some Mithras-wanna-be... (shudder) I'm going with a spring birth and Mars... I can't help thinking about the sword He brought to separate mankind... which would otherwise be ALL walking to the drum of the antichrist.
The Holy Spirit guided me to the December 4th birthdate of Jesus. I completely understand your point.
 
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Deafsilence

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In my current opinion Jesus was born around the time of the Feast of Dedication. This occurs during the 25th of Kislev (9th month). But the year that Jesus was born it fell in the Roman 10th month associated with December. I believe that woman caring a child for approx 40 weeks (9 months) was foreshadowing that Jesus would be born in the 9th month (lunar month per Jewish calendar at the time). I believe the "Church" did this with the crucifixion also. I do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a Friday but was crucified on the 6th day of the Lunar week and because Friday is the 6th day of the Roman week, that they established on a Friday. He was also crucified on the first moon in which the Full moon or 14th of the month crossed the Spring Equinox. The Early "Church" attempted to try to honor that period while aligning it with a Roman calendar. This is all my opinion but I could see how they departed in some earlier writings and see interesting correlations.
 
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Deafsilence

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Yes I’ve got a copy of the ‘Coming Prince,’ and also Hoehner’s adjustment to Anderson. There are serious problems with the theory, not the least of which is a mythical 360-day year. Also a reading of Nehemiah does not give the day of the month. Anderson claimed it was on the first day of the month without any proof whatsoever.

The command was given here:

Hag 1:1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,
 
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Christian Gedge

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The command was given here:

Hag 1:1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,

That occasion was the 1st of Elul 520 BC. Count 69 weeks (483 years) from Darius and what do we get? 37 BC! Nope, that can't be right. :scratch:

Have another look at the diagram on the opening post. Precisely 483 years from Artaxerxes decree (457 BC) until the revealing of Messiah. (27 AD)

And yep, it all adds up on our good ol' 365.24 day calendar. :wave:
 
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Deafsilence

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That occasion was the 1st of Elul 520 BC. Count 69 weeks (483 years) from Darius and what do we get? 37 BC! Nope, that can't be right. :scratch:

Have another look at the diagram on the opening post. Precisely 483 years from Artaxerxes decree (457 BC) until the revealing of Messiah. (27 AD)

And yep, it all adds up on our good ol' 365.24 day calendar. :wave:

Fall of 460 BC was the declaration of the 70th Jubilee cycle. Therefore, the 70 Weeks prophecy is a 10 Jubilee prophecy. This means that the 70th Jubilee was from the 7th month to the 7th month of 459 BC. This year is also the 1st year in the next cycle. It would be likely that they would have returned in this year to do the rebuilding. This would take us with 10 Jubilees to 31 AD being the declaration of the 80th Jubilee cycle in the 7th month of that year which falls right in light with Jesus giving the Disciples a full example of the Festival years by Giving them a Passover in the Spring (still the 7th year) and then Pentecost and then with the Jubilee in the fall (80th/1st).
 
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Chris Thomas Shepherd

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Matthew 24:36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

The Bile does not reveal to us when Jesus is coming back, because God does not want us to know, but you somehow 'figured it out'.

No one know who the antichrist is or when these things will happen. The Scripture says so Daniel 12:4 'But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
Well, you are right, Daniel did seal up the book until the time of the end, however, I make the assertion that the time of the end is upon us, and the book that Daniel sealed up has now been unsealed. I have been provided with the ability to translate biblical prophecy. The Holy Spirit has guided me throughout the process. I realize that people will doubt this, in fact, I would doubt what I am saying if the shoe was on the other foot. The Antichrist is real and walks among men today. He is only a teenager now, but he will come to power.
 
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