No Hell = no Justice

Presbyterian Continuist

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Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists and maybe a couple more denominations I think
If they are saying "no hell" then they are saying that Jesus is a liar, because He mentioned and described hell more than anyone else in the Bible.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Counter-thought: Hell is the rejection--and therefore deprivation--of justice.

When the Gospel is preached we are preaching the justice of God, the justice of God that is announced is that the sinner is forgiven: the prisoner is set free and forgiven.

If a person rejects the pardon, rejects the justice of the court, and insists on staying in prison; justice is not meted out, instead justice is being denied.

Hell isn't about justice, hell is what it looks like when someone insists on their injustice and denying justice from God found in forgiveness and mercy.

Justice isn't about reward and punishment, but setting things right, restoration, and righting wrongs. In hell we find the broken un-repaired, the sick unhealed, the sinner remaining in sin. That isn't justice, but the rejection and deprivation of it.

I am not, here, denying the justice of God; but rather saying that to be "in hell" is about denying God's justice. Hell is a prison not for those whom God wants to lock away forever; hell is a prison of the prisoner's own design and intention.

-CryptoLutheran
One thing I need to add about hell. There are Scriptural references that say that those in hell are subject to the continuous wrath of God for the rest of eternity. Jesus spent three hours suffering the wrath of God for sinners while on the Cross. He knew it was going to happen, and He pleaded with the Father that if there is any other way to avoid it, let the cup pass from Him. Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and having to suffer it for just three hours was something He definitely did not look forward to and if there was any other way, He would have been very happy to avoid it. Just imagine that people in hell have to suffer the same wrath of God without interruption for ever and ever with no end or escape. Not something any of us would relish. Paul said, "Knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men". I don't think we have a clear appreciation of what hell is really like, otherwise we would do much more to try and keep people out of it.
 
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I don't believe that from what I know about them but universalists are very outspoken that there is no hell.
Because Jesus spoke about the reality of hell and described it as a place of torment and fire, those who deny that hell exists is saying that Jesus is lying. In my view, anyone who calls Jesus a liar is not saved and will certainly end up in the hell that Jesus described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Where are you getting your info? Hitler was known to be involved in Christianity.
Not everyone who professes Christianity is actually saved. If Hitler was a real Christian in his heart, he would never have done the things he did, and would not have committed suicide. The Scripture says that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and if anyone destroys the body, they will be destroyed in the sense that they will be rendered totally useless for anything to do with heaven, and there is only one other place the person can go.
 
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Eternity is a very long time isn't it? Do you think that Hitler (as an example of the worst humanity has to offer) ought to suffer for eternity - endlessly for trillions of billions of millions of more trillions of billions of millions of years and repeated over and over forever?

Is that your idea of justice?
Jesus said quite clearly that a fiery hell where people are in torment for eternity, and He doesn't lie.
 
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That wasn't the question that I raised.
I was commenting that hell is forever. Hitler is not in hell because of what he did. What he did was evidence of the real reason he is in hell, which is that he was a rebel against God who turned his back on God's salvation offered through Christ. He basically trod the blood of Christ underfoot through his rejection of Christ and that is why he will suffer under the continual wrath of God for the rest of eternity.
 
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Hawkins

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Hell is rather the true nature. We subconsciously assume that our universe is nature. However, it is God-made. Man is designed with an immortal soul as a permanent identity to live an eternity. God doesn't have the lawful right to destroy souls (though He has the power and ability to do so) unless Jesus is crucified the second time to make the justification.

In hell then, that is when one returns to the true nature, the most powerful and the evilest will rule. His name is Satan. He also has the ability to destroy souls but he won't. He'd rather keep them. So whoever in hell can actually beg him, as he's the god there.

As a result, God is the God of living but not the God of the dead. It simply means God will not make another self-sacrifice for the dead. Naturally, under the ruling of the evilest Satan, everyone will in the end turn himself into another satan. Fate, after being expelled completely from God, will naturally lead them to the Lake of Fire to be swallowed by true nature.
 
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sandman

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Jesus never supported total annihilation. He supported in a number of places that there is a location where unconverted people will exist in a conscious state of being under the continuous wrath of God. If you support total annihilation, are you saying that Jesus is lying when He speaks of an eternal conscious hell for those who rebel against God? I wouldn't think so.

You do understand if what you are saying is true…. that people burning forever in a continuous state of torment would only be for the entertainment of God …think about that for a minute. That is the just God of love who we serve…and His entertainment is seeing people tormented for eternity….. I mean we will be saved, so we won’t really care.

Since you don’t appreciate my "irrelevant hair-splitting" words regarding hell (or something to that effect) that I am pretty sure you posted…. in rebuttal to my post on hell a few month ago…

I will avoid the avoid that …. and just leave you with the following verses …Tell me how, if death is the last enemy to be destroyed….how is that for eternity?


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 
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johnjanuary1984

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You do understand if what you are saying is true…. that people burning forever in a continuous state of torment would only be for the entertainment of God …think about that for a minute. That is the just God of love who we serve…and His entertainment is seeing people tormented for eternity….. I mean we will be saved, so we won’t really care.

Since you don’t appreciate my "irrelevant hair-splitting" words regarding hell (or something to that effect) that I am pretty sure you posted…. in rebuttal to my post on hell a few month ago…

I will avoid the avoid that …. and just leave you with the following verses …Tell me how, if death is the last enemy to be destroyed….how is that for eternity?


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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You do understand if what you are saying is true…. that people burning forever in a continuous state of torment would only be for the entertainment of God …think about that for a minute. That is the just God of love who we serve…and His entertainment is seeing people tormented for eternity….. I mean we will be saved, so we won’t really care.

Since you don’t appreciate my "irrelevant hair-splitting" words regarding hell (or something to that effect) that I am pretty sure you posted…. in rebuttal to my post on hell a few month ago…

I will avoid the avoid that …. and just leave you with the following verses …Tell me how, if death is the last enemy to be destroyed….how is that for eternity?


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
So you are not prepared to say that Jesus is lying about His description of hell as shown in His parable of the rich man and Lazarus, where the rich man in hell is being tormented in the flame.
 
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returntosender

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Not everyone who professes Christianity is actually saved. If Hitler was a real Christian in his heart, he would never have done the things he did, and would not have committed suicide. The Scripture says that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and if anyone destroys the body, they will be destroyed in the sense that they will be rendered totally useless for anything to do with heaven, and there is only one other place the person can go.
I didn't say he was a Christian. His intent was to be one and spent time learning about it. It was in a documentary I saw. So much is being said that is not truthful here. Why lead people astray? It's not right!
 
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returntosender

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Because Jesus spoke about the reality of hell and described it as a place of torment and fire, those who deny that hell exists is saying that Jesus is lying. In my view, anyone who calls Jesus a liar is not saved and will certainly end up in the hell that Jesus described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Then I guess people that say stuff on this thread that are lies are not saved either, right. Who are you to make that judgment?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Then I guess people that say stuff on this thread that are lies are not saved either, right. Who are you to make that judgment?
I'm no one special, just a fella with the Bible.
 
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I'm no one special, just a fella with the Bible.
I am sorry for what I said to you. im not coming back to this thread so you can post whatever you want with out any comment from me.
God bless.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I am sorry for what I said to you. im not coming back to this thread so you can post whatever you want with out any comment from me.
God bless.
I'm not offended. It is all in the interests of fair debate.
 
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ViaCrucis

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One thing I need to add about hell. There are Scriptural references that say that those in hell are subject to the continuous wrath of God for the rest of eternity. Jesus spent three hours suffering the wrath of God for sinners while on the Cross. He knew it was going to happen, and He pleaded with the Father that if there is any other way to avoid it, let the cup pass from Him. Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and having to suffer it for just three hours was something He definitely did not look forward to and if there was any other way, He would have been very happy to avoid it. Just imagine that people in hell have to suffer the same wrath of God without interruption for ever and ever with no end or escape. Not something any of us would relish. Paul said, "Knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men". I don't think we have a clear appreciation of what hell is really like, otherwise we would do much more to try and keep people out of it.

I doubt you and I agree what as to what God's wrath is or refers to.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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bbbbbbb

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I doubt you and I agree what as to what God's wrath is or refers to.

-CryptoLutheran

That seems to be a common problem here at CF. People (here, as well as elsewhere) do not share a common understanding of a topic and, as a result, frequently get quite worked up. Putin's war is an extreme example.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I was commenting that hell is forever. Hitler is not in hell because of what he did. What he did was evidence of the real reason he is in hell, which is that he was a rebel against God who turned his back on God's salvation offered through Christ. He basically trod the blood of Christ underfoot through his rejection of Christ and that is why he will suffer under the continual wrath of God for the rest of eternity.
You think that is worthy of an eternity of painful suffering?
 
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