Matthew 25:46

Those on the left are condemned to the fire why if they call Jesus Lord?

  • The fire is refining

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • The fire will turn them to ashes

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • The fire will inflict eternal punishment

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13

Clare73

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No need to-Scripture does it for us, if we're willing to truly listen to God, not hansen or anyone else. And, as shown above, it's quite obvious that God is our righteousness and the source of our righteousness as He transmits that same righteousness to us as we enter fellowship with Him. That's what both justification and its continuation: sanctification, are all about. Start reading the bible for yourself. Christ didn't do all this so that you can remain a sinner, as if God, suddenly, no longer cares about the unrighteousness that causes so much harm in His creation. Jesus came to do something about that, and in the process, create something even better and grander than He began with in Eden as we get on board with His plan, and remain on board.
Non-responsive. . .
 
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fhansen

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Non-responsive. . .
Or maybe you just didn't approve of the response. Either way, God not only forgives unrighteousness but also gives His people righteousness at justification. And then we must work out our salvation from there, becoming sanctified as we cooperate with the Spirit with whatever grace and time and opportunity we have thereafter in this life in order to gain eternal life- Rom 6:22
 
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Clare73

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Or maybe you just didn't approve of the response. Either way, God not only forgives unrighteousness but also gives His people righteousness at justification. And then we must work out our salvation from there, becoming sanctified as we cooperate with the Spirit with whatever grace and time and opportunity we have thereafter in this life in order to gain eternal life- Rom 6:22
The subject is not unrighteousness.
 
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Jamdoc

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Or maybe you just didn't approve of the response. Either way, God not only forgives unrighteousness but also gives His people righteousness at justification. And then we must work out our salvation from there, becoming sanctified as we cooperate with the Spirit with whatever grace and time and opportunity we have thereafter in this life in order to gain eternal life- Rom 6:22

I'd say work BECAUSE of our salvation...
 
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fhansen

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The subject is not unrighteousness.
Of course it was-because the subject is about justification, being delivered from unrighteousness/injustice/sin, to righteousness. I had responded to this:
Nope. . .that's fhansen talking, that's not Scripture talking.
Scripture says the name for the righteousness of God is Jesus Christ.
"Jesus Christ is our righteousness, holiness and redemption." (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Let's not try to improve Scripture with human wisdom.
 
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Guojing

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I'm not so sure. He is definitely not saying that the verse says that it's all about faith and not works. He's saying that it doesn't relate to individual salvation at all but is rather about the judgment of the nations, based on the way they treat people. It reminds me of the saying that a nation can be judged by the way it treats its elderly, which is very true.

the term nations is just telling us that Jesus was referring to gentiles.

So its about individual salvation, how gentiles can be saved during the Tribulation, which as I said, the precendent was set in time past, thay are to be saved through Israel, by blessing that nation.
 
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Hmm

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the term nations is just telling us that Jesus was referring to gentiles.

So its about individual salvation, how gentiles can be saved during the Tribulation, which as I said, the precendent was set in time past, thay are to be saved through Israel, by blessing that nation.

You may be right, or wrong, but all I was saying is that you were wrong to say that the author was saying the same thing as you because he clearly wasn't.
 
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Clare73

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Of course it was-because the subject is about justification, being delivered from unrighteousness/injustice/sin, to righteousness. I had responded to this:
The subject is in post #56.
 
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Trivalee

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Why did those on the left refer to Him as Lord if they didn’t believe Jesus? If they were goats, why would they refer to Jesus as Lord?
When God speaks to us, it is our soul (not the flesh) that responds and the soul of man always recognizes his creator! There are many examples in scripture where unbelievers that don't know or believe in God, addressed him as "Lord" when he confronts them.

1. Saul (Paul) didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, yet when he confronted him on his way to Damascus, he replied "Who are you, Lord"? Acts 9:4-5.
2. Nebuchadnezzar was a Gentile who neither believed nor gave a farthing about the God of Israel. Yet after God humbled him by turning him into a beast for 7 years, he extolled the God of heaven; see Daniel 4:34-37
3. When Nebuchadnezzar cast the three Hebrew children into the burning furnace and saw they were unharmed by the fire, he declared "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." How did he know about the Son of God?

My point is that none of these non-believers made these statements from their carnal knowledge, rather it was their souls responding to the Lord the Creator.
 
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Clare73

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Why did those on the left refer to Him as Lord if they didn’t believe Jesus? If they were goats, why would they refer to Jesus as Lord?
The same reason the tares in the church refer to him as Lord.
 
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wendykvw

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When God speaks to us, it is our soul (not the flesh) that responds and the soul of man always recognizes his creator! There are many examples in scripture where unbelievers that don't know or believe in God, addressed his "Lord" when he confronted them.

1. Saul (Paul) didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, yet when he confronted him on his way to Damascus, he replied "Who are you, Lord"? Acts 9:4-5.
2. Nebuchadnezzar was a Gentile who neither believed nor gave a farthing about the God of Israel. Yet after God humbled him by turning him into a beast for 7 years, he extolled the God of heaven; see Daniel 4:34-37
3. When Nebuchadnezzar cast the three Hebrew children into the burning furnace and saw they were unharmed by the fire, he declared "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." How did he know about the Son of God?

My point is that none of these non-believers made these statements from their carnal knowledge, rather it was their souls responding to the Lord the Creator.
Exactly good point! The universalist paradigm.
  • 1 Cor 15:28"When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."
  • Romans 14:11 "Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the LORD, ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God".
 
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Matt5

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That's not actually the mark of anything

Like to lob bombs I see. Care to add anything?

There is a connection between key Islamic figures (Mahdi and Islamic Jesus) in the future and Christian end-time prophecy. So one shouldn't be surprised by a connection between Allah and 666.

Islamic Mahdi & Islamic Jesus as Compared to the Antichrist and False Prophet | Joel Richardson | YouTube
 
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Der Alte

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Exactly good point! The universalist paradigm.
  • 1 Cor 15:28"When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."
  • Romans 14:11 "Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the LORD, ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God".
This is a favorite vs. for those promoting Universal Reconciliation [UR] and it does appear to support UR when read out-of-context, as here.
Contrary to what UR-ites erroneously proclaim, scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomologeō occurs eleven times in the NT. in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back)”etc.
In Philippians 2:11exomologeō is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility or potentiality. The action may or may not happen. Every knee "should bow" not “will bow.”
Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​
…..Scripture says that every knee should bow but only believers will do so freely, willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies. How will the enemies of Jesus feel?
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, *(fn) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
…..*(fn)"That day" =the day of judgment.]​
After judgment day and “I never knew you: depart from me,” there are no more chances for reconciliation.
The word of God says every knee should bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.
1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;​
But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars" etc.[Rev 21:8] everyone who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. become Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded 7 times in scripture. The purveyors of UR ignore these verses.
1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:34-35
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool..
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​
What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, whose name OBTW is the same as Jesus' in Hebrew, Yehoshua, shows us in Josh. 10.
Josh 10:5-15 five kings band together to make war against Israel and were defeated.
Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22-24
22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.…
24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.

Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.​
The enemies of Joshua were made his footstool, vs. 24, then destroyed. They did not become faithful, obedient members of his army.
The enemies of Jesus become His footstool, as the enemies of Joshua did, and nowhere is it written that those enemies specifically will be reconciled.
 
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Der Alte

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@wendykvw @Clare73
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​
Not every one shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
Many, not a few, will say to me in that day, Lord, we have prophesied in your name?
And in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works!
Then I, Jesus, will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Nothing Matthew, Mark, Luke John or Paul will say changes this.
When Jesus says never He means never.
 
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GTW27

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Everything and everyone is subjected to Christ. All people will be judged and will give an account of the good, bad and ugly. God shows no favoritism.

Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism. Colossians 3:25

Blessings to you wendykvw. Why do you keep calling The Lord, Christ? He is The Christ. Christ Jesus. I have been through the fire but have kept the faith. The Lord's Fire is used during the journey to burn off the chaff in our lives. This fire can be the fire of affliction. And the enemy can be used for the affliction.(Job). This draws us closer to The Lord as only He can help us. In the end there is less of us, and more of Him. What is missing in this doctrine is the knowledge of what entered man in the garden. I know, I lived it long ago when I walked in darkness. That darkness, can not enter in,(heaven) nor can it be purged by fire. That darkness only leaves when The Lord enters in. It flees before Him as He is Holy.(Behold I stand at the door and knock.......) Long ago I opened that door, and I opened it wide. That plato thing you brought, the wisdom of man, let me sum it up easier, It is standing on the other side of knowing. That is where your group is. Until one is truly born from above, they are standing on the other side of knowing. Knowing The Truth. And The Truth is only found in Jesus. If I were to have died before 1996, I would never have enter in(heaven) because no unclean thing can enter in. For before that, I was a liar, a killer, and a thief. When you turn on your tv today, you will see the same. They are as their father is, a liar, a killer, and a thief. So no, there is no universal salvation. The Lord is just in all His ways. (for He knew what was in man) Gospel of John chapter 2 vs 24. Part of my calling is to snatch people out of the fire. The doctrine of universal salvation is being in the fire.And the one who puts people there, knows me well. He is a tricky and a subtle one. I know these words will fall on deaf ears, but don't listen to me, I am nothing but the least of the Lord's son's. Take it to The Lord in sincere prayer .And that goes for all of you. I write these words in here, for I know that time is short, and I know that it is The Lord's desire that none should perish. And when The Lord said "rest" It means rest in Him. Blessings!
 
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Clare73

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Blessings to you wendykvw. Why do you keep calling The Lord, Christ? He is The Christ. Christ Jesus.
Because the NT does so on every other, if not every page.
I have been through the fire but have kept the faith. The Lord's Fire is used during the journey to burn off the chaff in our lives. This fire can be the fire of affliction. And the enemy can be used for the affliction.(Job). This draws us closer to The Lord as only He can help us. In the end there is less of us, and more of Him. What is missing in this doctrine is the knowledge of what entered man in the garden. I know, I lived it long ago when I walked in darkness. That darkness, can not enter in,(heaven) nor can it be purged by fire. That darkness only leaves when The Lord enters in. It flees before Him as He is Holy.(Behold I stand at the door and knock.......) Long ago I opened that door, and I opened it wide. That plato thing you brought, the wisdom of man, let me sum it up easier, It is standing on the other side of knowing. That is where your group is. Until one is truly born from above, they are standing on the other side of knowing. Knowing The Truth. And The Truth is only found in Jesus. If I were to have died before 1996, I would never have enter in(heaven) because no unclean thing can enter in. For before that, I was a liar, a killer, and a thief. When you turn on your tv today, you will see the same. They are as their father is, a liar, a killer, and a thief. So no, there is no universal salvation. The Lord is just in all His ways. (for He knew what was in man) Gospel of John chapter 2 vs 24. Part of my calling is to snatch people out of the fire. The doctrine of universal salvation is being in the fire.And the one who puts people there, knows me well. He is a tricky and a subtle one. I know these words will fall on deaf ears, but don't listen to me, I am nothing but the least of the Lord's son's. Take it to The Lord in sincere prayer .And that goes for all of you. I write these words in here, for I know that time is short, and I know that it is The Lord's desire that none should perish. And when The Lord said "rest" It means rest in Him. Blessings!
 
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wendykvw

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This is a favorite vs. for those promoting Universal Reconciliation [UR] and it does appear to support UR when read out-of-context, as here.
Contrary to what UR-ites erroneously proclaim, scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomologeō occurs eleven times in the NT. in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back)”etc.
In Philippians 2:11exomologeō is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility or potentiality. The action may or may not happen. Every knee "should bow" not “will bow.”
Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​
…..Scripture says that every knee should bow but only believers will do so freely, willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies. How will the enemies of Jesus feel?
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, *(fn) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
…..*(fn)"That day" =the day of judgment.]​
After judgment day and “I never knew you: depart from me,” there are no more chances for reconciliation.
The word of God says every knee should bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.
1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;​
But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars" etc.[Rev 21:8] everyone who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. become Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded 7 times in scripture. The purveyors of UR ignore these verses.
1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:34-35
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool..
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​
What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, whose name OBTW is the same as Jesus' in Hebrew, Yehoshua, shows us in Josh. 10.
Josh 10:5-15 five kings band together to make war against Israel and were defeated.
Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22-24
22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.…
24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.

Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.​
The enemies of Joshua were made his footstool, vs. 24, then destroyed. They did not become faithful, obedient members of his army.
The enemies of Jesus become His footstool, as the enemies of Joshua did, and nowhere is it written that those enemies specifically will be reconciled.
Actually all scripture is a favorite. But, like those who support eternal torment and annihilation we focus on the good news, and the victory of Christ. Not the victory of Satan. The traditional view is inconsistent on many levels. 1. Satan wins the majority of the world. 2. Sin defeats the savior, who takes away the sins of the world. 3. Adam was more powerful to condemn all people. 4. God’s Grace, and mercy are irrelevant…so many flaws with the traditional view. Lastly Satan is glorified, and Christ loses all creation. So yes, we tend to focus on Christ and His victory over the devil.
 
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