What is the difficulty of getting into heaven?

Soyeong said:

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit have been given to those who obey God,

Click to expand...

The Holy Sprit is given to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. God does the work in us.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Our obedience comes from the Holy Spirit working in us. It is simple. By the Spirit. Not by our own understanding.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

The Holy Sprit is given to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. God does the work in us.
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Our obedience comes from the Holy Spirit working in us. It is simple. By the Spirit. Not by our own understanding.

Click to expand...

Yes, the Spirit would in us, though the Spirit is also given to those who obey God, so that is part of what is required to receive the Spirit. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:1-8), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

Soyeong said:

Yes, the Spirit would in us, though the Spirit is also given to those who obey God, so that is part of what is required to receive the Spirit. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:1-8), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

Click to expand...

All this is after the fact. This is the normal Christian life. This is walking in the spirit.
The obedience that causes us to receive the Spirit is to believe the Gospel.

“Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?” (Gal 3:2). The answer was obvious: They received the Spirit by faith, by accepting what they heard.

Soyeong said:

though the Spirit is also given to those who obey God, so that is part of what is required to receive the Spirit.

Click to expand...

Did the Pharisees who kept the law by their own volition receive the Holy Spirit?

Handmaid for Jesus said:

Did the Pharisees who kept the law by their own volition receive the Holy Spirit?

Click to expand...

Some did.

Soyeong said:

Some did.

Click to expand...

Only the believers.

Soyeong said:

Some did.

Click to expand...

Why did all of them not receive Him? They kept the law.

fhansen said:

they're born with that instinct.. But we're born without knowledge of, let alone faith in, let alone hope in,, let alone love for, God. Agape can be embraced and accepted and acted upon and grown, or not. It's a daily choice

Click to expand...

Man always makes a choice even when God determines them.

Clare73 said:

Man always makes a choice even when God determines them.

Click to expand...

Well, that would really just be the puppet master's choice in that case. You don't understand God's purposes in this whole thing called creation. Man possesses justice or righteousness not to the extent that he can produce it on his own but to the extent that he accepts it from God and acts on it and continues to, beginning with the first right step of faith, the recognition of His existence and rightful place of godhood over us.

That's God's purpose, to patently, over centuries, produce a people who willingly follow and love Him even as grace is needed to aid us in that movement, and the more they love Him the greater their own justice. He doesn't want puppets or else He would've just filled heaven with them to begin with instead of placing us into this world which amounts to a schoolhouse where the will is educated, informed, cultivated, moved but never, ever overridden. That freedom is the only reason why evil is even possible to begin with. And the only reason why we can to choose good over that evil instead. Man cannot choose rightly apart from grace. But man can still resist and reject the grace that seeks to prompt that right choice in him. Again, that's what makes man's righteousness even possible. Otherwise the very concepts of good and evil, righteousness and unrighteousness, justice and injustice, are rendered vacuous, meaningless. So the church, here emphasizing man's role in the equation, can teach thusly:

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

fhansen said:

Well, that would really just be the puppetmaster's choice in that case.

Click to expand...

No. It is more the Holy Spirit in us changing our will to match His will.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

No. It is more the Holy Spirit in us changing our will to match His will.

Click to expand...

Well...yes...but if that is irresistible on our part, then we're just back to the Holy Puppet Master. That's not what He wants to be in our lives. He must work in us, for sure, but not, ever, such that we can't say "no" at the end of the day.

The church has always taught that it's impossible for man to freely turn himself to God without the action of grace. But, that man can still say no to that grace. And, once turned to God, man can still turn and walk back away. And so, once turned to God, he's now responsible for remaining in Him and for walking in the justice/righteousness that has been given him by virtue of fellowship with God.

servant7777 said:

2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Click to expand...

huh... where in the Old Testament does God say that? There aren't many verses that have the word "daughters" in them...

Some websites think that's a composite verse... but the three verses they suggest aren't even remotely about the gentiles.

Most of Isaiah 52 was fulfilled by the Messiah in Galilee... this part matches Matthew 24:16-20... some Sabbath-keepers are pregnant. This is Judah escaping endtimes Babylon.

Isaiah 52:11-12 Depart ye depart, go out from thence and touch not the unclean thing; go ye out from the midst of her separate yourselves, ye that bear the vessels of the Lord.[12] For ye shall not go forth with tumult, neither go by flight: for the Lord shall go first in advance of you; and the God of Israel shall be He that brings up your rear.LXX

Ephraim is the 10 tribes of the northern House of Israel... some were already found in Messiah's day by preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jeremiah 31:9 They went forth with weeping, and I will bring them back with consolation, causing them to lodge by the channels of waters in a straight way, and they shall not err in it: for I am become a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My first-born.LXX

This verse is openly about the Messiah Himself: He is building His own House... and healed His people with the stripes He bore for them.

2 Samuel 7:12-14 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish His kingdom.[13] He shall build an house for My name, and I will stablish the throne of His Kingdom for ever.[14] I will be His Father and He shall be My son. If He commit iniquity, I will chasten Him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:KJV

If you have a better guess than all of that... none of which fits the gentiles at all... well, here's the link I found for the above three-guesses, etc.
Paul’s use of the Old Testament — Wednesday in the Word

fhansen said:

And so, once turned to God, he's now responsible for remaining in Him

Click to expand...

That is what the Galatians thought. The Holy Spirit in us shapes and molds us into the image of Jesus Christ. That is the beauty of the New Birth. Hallelujah!
2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.KJV

Here is the NIV
2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Good night everyone.

mndgn.j said:

In the most basic terms for a child to understand, How hard or easy is it to get into heaven?
In other words, Is it easy to obtain salvation or is it hard for the joe shmoes of the world?

Click to expand...

Matthew 5:17-48 [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. ... ...[22] But I say unto you... ...
Matthew 7:1-29 [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house upon the rock:[25] and the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house: and it fell not, for it was founded upon the rock.

mndgn.j said:

In the most basic terms for a child to understand, How hard or easy is it to get into heaven?
In other words, Is it easy to obtain salvation or is it hard for the joe shmoes of the world?

Click to expand...

It's the easiest thing and at the same time, impossible. If you trust Jesus to save you, He gets you into heaven. If you try to make it by yourself, you will never get there. And God does not show favouritism. It's just harder for the proud rich to humble themselves and admit their need of a saviour.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

That is what the Galatians thought. The Holy Spirit in us shapes and molds us into the image of Jesus Christ. That is the beauty of the New Birth. Hallelujah!
2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.KJV

Here is the NIV
2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Click to expand...

No, that's the nonsense of the new gospel. I've known too many Christians of all stripes to believe that the rebirth necessarily means they can no longer choose to sin, and sin in such a way as to exclude them from eternal life if they were to persist in it.

Aussie Pete said:

It's the easiest thing and at the same time, impossible. If you trust Jesus to save you, He gets you into heaven. If you try to make it by yourself, you will never get there. And God does not show favouritism. It's just harder for the proud rich to humble themselves and admit their need of a saviour.

Click to expand...

Yes, we have to humble ourselves and know that we need God, desperately, in fact. And we need to take up our cross and follow as well, striving to do His will with the help of His grace.

fhansen said:

No, that's the nonsense of the new gospel.

Click to expand...

The gospel is NOT non-sense and the gospel is NOT new.

fhansen said:

I've known too many Christians of all stripes to believe that the rebirth necessarily means they can no longer choose to sin, and sin in such a way as to exclude them from eternal life if they were to persist in it.

Click to expand...

Who determined that they were excluded from eternal life? It is God who justifies not men.
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Once you have been filled with the Holy Spirit, He never leaves. Now there are people who say they are believers but they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They pride themselves on how well they keep the law and they condemn people they think live sinfully. But Lord Jesus interceeds for believers who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. (KJV)

Handmaid for Jesus said:

Once you have been filled with the Holy Spirit, He never leaves. Now there are people who say they are believers but they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They pride themselves on how well they keep the law and they condemn people they think live sinfully. But Lord Jesus interceeds for believers who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. (KJV)

Click to expand...

There is no condemnation for those who walk after the Spirit, ( who are in Christ Jesus)

We are baptized unto His death, we walk in newness of life, our old man is crucified with Him so we do not serve ( at all) sin. The body of sin might be destroyed ( when we are the new man in Christ) so we should not serve sin ( so we do not serve sin but serve righteousness, and no man can serve two masters) as he that is dead is freed from sin ( Christ died to free us from sin and we die with Him to live again with Him without sin in righteousness)

Now righteousness is fulfilled in us ( any sin in us is not righteousness fulfilled in us)




Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.