If a man does not work let him not eat?

Paul wasn't blind to those in need.



Romans 12:13
Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Philippians 2:4
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

The Bible talks a lot about taking care of the needy, actually.


Matthew 25:40
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.



Psalm 82:3
Give justice to the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the afflicted and the destitute.

It’s ok. Your disabled. They had freeloaders in the church. Maybe you can volunteer there a little bit or not. I do what I can. I guess lazy people living off their wives who are feeding their family. Quite a big responsibility. I guess Paul would say better to not have a family if you can’t support them. Now a days it takes two to do that. Two disabled people can and do team up for survival or whatever. Don’t feel guilty, not of Lord, it’s not the money that’s important. It’s love, and marriage. Food stamps are free, medical care is free. It can be done. So don’t worry. Don’t let those thoughts have power. I’m ok you’re ok. Jesus loves you. He doesn’t want you to go off the deep end or starve. The only alternative. Thank God for America.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

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first century Christians took up collections for the poor and needy among them. But there were a few cases where people were trying to take advantage of that system - and Paul is talking not about those who "could not work" but those who "would not work". Implying they were able to work but chose to let the church members support them instead of working.

Neostarwcc said:

I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I?

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Government payments are not part of Paul's discussion. There were people in Rome that got paid from government funds - and he does not even discuss that at all.

This hold also for things like social security etc where people pay into that system all their life - and then retire.

Neostarwcc said:

What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?
I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example.

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Psalm 146 Alleluia, a Psalm of Aggaeus and Zacharias.
Psalms 146:1-10 My soul, praise the Lord.[2] While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises to my God as long as I exist.
[3] Trust not in princes, nor in the children of men in whom there is no safety:
[4] his breath shall go forth and he shall return to his earth, in that day all his thoughts shall perish.
[5] Blessed is he whose helper is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the Lord his God,[6] who made heaven and earth, the sea and all things in them, who keeps truth for ever,[7] who executes judgment for the wronged, who gives food to the hungry. The Lord looses the fettered ones.[8] The Lord gives wisdom to the blind. The Lord sets up the broken down. The Lord loves the righteous. The Lord preserves the strangers.[9] He will relieve the orphan and widow, but will utterly remove the way of sinners.[10] The Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Sion, to all generations.

Matthew 6:31-33 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?[32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your Heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.[33] But seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.

Well, I have read that scripture saying about a man not eating if he does not work; but what does it actually say? In my Bible it says >

"For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

And my Greek sources indicate that "will not work" can mean a person does not wish or want to work.

So, I see there can be a difference between someone who can't work and one who does not want to and even refuses to. And I have known someone who moved into an apartment with someone else, payed no part of the rent or food expense, and did no dishes or cooking and would tell the roommate things to do. That guy could be more what Paul means.

On the other hand, I read of a man who came to the United States from another country and he got welfare help, I think. He was so grateful that he went out and picked up trash and told people he was so grateful for the financial help.

And I used to live outside, on purpose, and once I was walking south, I think in Maryland. And I stopped to visit a church and got an earful about how a guy who does not work will not eat, then the guy talked about work needed to be done in the church, but he was not going to accept who wasn't proven to be qualified to do the stuff. I just sat there and thought of how I had done the work of walking there from Boston in order to meet God's people and share the word with them . . . free of charge. And I had scavenged food thrown out > that is work, I will offer you. And picking cans and bottles to get about a dollar an hour is work. But I got so much food from scavenging, that I might give my bottle and can money to a church. And then I shared with a guy who told me he worked at a hamburger place, and his tone of voice sounded like he thought he wasn't doing much; I asked him if there was a genuine Christian working there with him and he said yes > well, I offered, you should deeply appreciate having any amount of time to share with another child of God while working there; sharing with a Christian there could be worth more than any amount of money or what you could just accomplish in some job that worldly people consider to be important, I might have also said to him. I told him I would have walked here from Boston just to spend time with him and talk about this. People get payed to do the work of being a postal delivery person who brings people a lot of worldly messages; I think the work of walking to give him that one message could be worth more than delivering all the worldly mail combined of the United States in a whole year.

If you pick up one piece of trash from a church floor because you love Jesus and God's people, how much is that worth? That is work If the Holy Spirit has you do something, like picking up a stone on the ground at a church cookout so the elderly or running children don't get hurt stepping on it . . . billions of universes of gold and silver could not be enough to pay the value of that one work which the Holy Spirit has you do; because the value of anything the Holy Spirit has us do, for work, can not be measured by any amount of material whatever.

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

Be creative, have some fun with this

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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The translations I like to use say:

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. - KJV

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. - ESV

For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. - NASB

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” - NIV

So it's not talking about people who cannot work, only those who are able to work but not willing to.

If you can't work, you can't work. Don't sweat it.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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He is simply saying that a man, under normal circumstances, needs to provide for himself. If a man is able-bodied, and can put in the work to feed, cloth and shelter himself, he should do it. Should he not rely on friends, family or the government for assistance? Of course he can, but in an appropriate manner, that is, not taking advantage of those means to prevent him from becoming independent. If he does not seek to be independent, then expose him to the reality of the situation (not eat) and the necessary steps to encourage him to become independent. If you are under a circumstance that may require or depend on some government assistance, there is no sin. We tend to overthink the simple words of the apostles who wrote these things to churches filled with people no more inspired than you.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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Remember that there was no social security in those days. Some Christians were taking advantage of others by not working. As a pastor I knew briefly said, "They are not living by faith. They are living by my faith!" He was referring to a Christian (supposedly) freeloader who was going from church to church asking for a handout.

Because there was no social security, people had to take care of their families. That included unbelievers. Paul was saying that even unbelievers took responsibility for their family.

God is not unfair or unjust. In the early days of the Church, other Christians would have helped you. Sometimes I wonder if social security is a blessing or a blight. However, you are entitled so take advantage of it. If you can work, you should. I know someone with bipolar who works as an engineer for a government authority. She endures some mockery, but she stays strong. You know your limitations. Ask God to show you. Work is a great motivator and solves a lot of financial problems. You may find that there is something that you can do. It will help your self esteem and pay the bills too!

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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The scripture explicitly says, "...if a man will not work."

Everyone was expected to be willing to work however one could work. Even elderly widows on the widows list were expected to be teachers of younger women.

Note that, as with those widows, the job might be within and for the Body of Christ itself.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about?

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He was writing to the Thessalonians about the Lord's return.
Paul, and others, believed Jesus would return in their lifetime, and there were some who were using that as an excuse not to work.

Neostarwcc said:

What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help?

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Paul wasn't referring to those people.

Neostarwcc said:

And what qualifies a person as disabled?

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That's probably for the government/medics to define.

Neostarwcc said:

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about?

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No.

Neostarwcc said:

I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about

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You aren't.

Neostarwcc said:

and if I'm an exception than why am I?

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Paul was addressing those who are deliberately idle/lazy and not bothering to find work - possibly, as I said, because they were expecting Jesus to return soon. He was not speaking to any who were unable to work due to physical, or mental, disability. People with disabilities would probably, then, have been cared for and supported by their families.
Jesus himself told a parable about servants who thought their master was a long time returning, stopped doing their work and lazed about, Luke 12:43-46.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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It's the first century and Christian communities are basically small illegal groups that have to rely entirely on the generosity of everyone involved. There may or may not be several wealthy members, perhaps elderly widows who turn their estates into house churches. And then there are lots of itinerant--traveling--teachers and preachers. Paul himself was one of these itinerant preachers, as he went on his apostolic journeys to the various churches; and we see that there were plenty of others traveling around as false teachers and false apostles.

So Paul says, for example, that a laborer is worth their wage; but specifically says that in order to avoid even letting people make a false accusation he doesn't take money, but rather he had a trade to help fund his work.

But imagine that you have these people, coming and going, and being housed by the the church, they receive shelter, hospitality, and a full belly at the communal meals.

But what if there are those who are taking advantage of this? They are contributing nothing and doing nothing but leeching off of everyone else's hospitality. Food that could go to those who are hungry and in need isn't going to them, but is instead being mooched on by false teachers, greedy and abusive persons.

This was a real problem at the time, we can even find it in the Didache,

"But receive everyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and prove and know him afterward; for you shall have understanding right and left. If he who comes is a wayfarer, assist him as far as you are able; but he shall not remain with you more than two or three days, if need be. But if he wants to stay with you, and is an artisan, let him work and eat. But if he has no trade, according to your understanding, see to it that, as a Christian, he shall not live with you idle. But if he wills not to do, he is a Christ-monger. Watch that you keep away from such." - Didache, ch. 12

This is in a section of several chapters dealing with how to recognize and treat traveling teachers and preachers, and how to recognize true from the false.

Those who try and take Paul's statement to mean that we are not to feed the hungry and clothe the naked (etc) are merely trying to excuse their sinful behavior by denying the commandment of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about?

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Background: Paul wrote this in the same letter where he consoles many who were disturbed by others saying that the Lord had already come (2 Thessalonians 2:1-5). Where is the impetus to work if you are convinced that Christ has already come or is returning next week?

So much more to that verse. Be like helping that homeless person (not all) that will gladly take your money but when offered real help to get out turns and walks away back to asking for money.

Try to remember the lord your Father GOD looks at your heart. Your heart will gladly work but you can't. So heres the kicker.. to Him? You are working! You ready do so much day in day out.. that is work

does it mean forcing someone to work a worldly job or let them starve? that would seem to contradict Jesus teachings in Matthew 6:25-34 but the context does seem to indicate making those who do not work starve, should we make fun of these unemployed people and call them leeches, no good, useless, etc. that doesn't seem right, it is confusing

Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corp. For those who want to work.

You have a disability and in need of help. That's the difference.

God bless

Cockcrow said:

does it mean forcing someone to work a worldly job or let them starve?

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No.

Cockcrow said:

but the context does seem to indicate making those who do not work starve,

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If you read the next few verses, Paul is warning against deliberate idleness.
As has been said, some people were thinking, "I don't have to work, Jesus is returning soon."

Cockcrow said:

should we make fun of these unemployed people and call them leeches, no good, useless, etc.

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No, of course not; why would you?

Cockcrow said:

it is confusing

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Not if you read the context and learn about the background to the letter.

I have 2 passages of scripture which show the Lord's grace for the disabled.

Luke 16

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

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now before we continue, do you have to pick up and carry an able bodied man and lay them at someone's gate?
No, Lazarus was disabled, he was obviously ill, having sores and ulcers.

Now continuing on

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

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God didn't tell Lazarus (which is a name that means one whom God has helped) that he was worthless because he didn't work/couldn't work, God had him taken to a place of honor, next to the side of the patriarch of the Hebrew faith, where he was comforted.


Now, let's go back to the Old Testament for another. First off, let's remember, that God declared that King David was a man after His own heart. Now David was a sinner still, but there are certain elements of David's character, that show us a picture of God's character... a blurry picture, so if David was this compassionate, how much more so will God be?

2 Samuel 9

1 And David said, Is there yet any that is left of the house of Saul, that I may shew him kindness for Jonathan's sake?
2 And there was of the house of Saul a servant whose name was Ziba. And when they had called him unto David, the king said unto him, Art thou Ziba? And he said, Thy servant is he.
3 And the king said, Is there not yet any of the house of Saul, that I may shew the kindness of God unto him? And Ziba said unto the king, Jonathan hath yet a son, which is lame on his feet.

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So there we go, David wants to show the kindness of God to a relative of the King who tried to have him hunted down and killed, for the sake of someone else. Total unmerited grace is what David wanted to show whoever this was. The servant points out that Jonathan's son is lame, that is, there is no way that Mephibosheth could ever repay the king for his kindness, in fact, as a descendent of King Saul who tried to kill David, Mephibosheth had every right to believe that David was going to execute him. Continuing on

5 Then king David sent, and fetched him out of the house of Machir, the son of Ammiel, from Lodebar.
6 Now when Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, was come unto David, he fell on his face, and did reverence. And David said, Mephibosheth. And he answered, Behold thy servant!
7 And David said unto him, Fear not: for I will surely shew thee kindness for Jonathan thy father's sake, and will restore thee all the land of Saul thy father; and thou shalt eat bread at my table continually.
8 And he bowed himself, and said, What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?
9 Then the king called to Ziba, Saul's servant, and said unto him, I have given unto thy master's son all that pertained to Saul and to all his house.
10 Thou therefore, and thy sons, and thy servants, shall till the land for him, and thou shalt bring in the fruits, that thy master's son may have food to eat: but Mephibosheth thy master's son shall eat bread alway at my table. Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants.
11 Then said Ziba unto the king, According to all that my lord the king hath commanded his servant, so shall thy servant do. As for Mephibosheth, said the king, he shall eat at my table, as one of the king's sons.
12 And Mephibosheth had a young son, whose name was Micha. And all that dwelt in the house of Ziba were servants unto Mephibosheth.
13 So Mephibosheth dwelt in Jerusalem: for he did eat continually at the king's table; and was lame on both his feet.

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Isn't this a beautiful picture of salvation?
a man who had no worth of himself, and unable to repay any favor because of his physical crippling, who could have been seen as a potential enemy of the King, shown kindness for the sake of another (as we are shown kindness for the sake of Jesus), is shown mercy, grace, and favor, as if he was one of David's sons (like the doctrine of adoption)
Totally unmerited grace, to show a picture of the kindness of God, to show the King's quality of character, and the quality of the God he served.

Neostarwcc said:

When Paul said "if a man does not work let him not eat." What was he talking about? What about disabled people who cannot work but must rely on the government for help? If that is an exception, why? And what qualifies a person as disabled?

I get disability because I'm schizophrenic and bipolar for example. Are mentally ill people what Paul was talking about? I've barely worked a day in my life and had everything handed to me and I've been living off of disability on my own since 2012. I do not want to violate what Paul was talking about and if I'm an exception than why am I? Paul also says those who don't take care of their family are worse than infidels, what exactly did he mean by that?

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You have already gotten a lot of good advice about what Paul did and did not mean. I would prefer to turn your questions around and ask you a question …


… God has removed from you the ability to spend 40 hours a week in a job and found an alternative means to provide for your physical needs: So when God asks you how you have invested the “coins” that he has given you (free time that most do not have), how will you answer? How are you investing what God has given you?

From the parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30)