Saturday or Sunday Church?

BNR32FAN said:

James was also quoting from the book of Exodus so by your own logic you would still be required to observe the Passover and all of the stipulations associated with it since God specifically stated that it is to be observed for all generations. Now you’ll probably argue that it’s not one of the 10 commandments which is irrelevant because it was still a commandment of God to be observed for all generations, at least according to your logic that is. You say that Jesus is your Passover which is fine but still it doesn’t specifically state that you no longer have to keep the commandments associated with it. And when I say Jesus is my rest that doesn’t sit well with you because your argument is that Hebrews 4 doesn’t specifically state that we no longer have to observe the Sabbath. So again your not upholding the same standard by which your judging others. You tried to say that the Passover sacrifice is no longer needed by quoting Hebrews 10 which is only referring to sin offerings which the Passover sacrifice is not a sin offering it’s a ceremonial ritual. Jews are forbidden to eat sin offerings, they are commanded by God to eat all of the Passover sacrifice.

You are judging others for not keeping God’s commandments while at the same time your not keeping them yourself. Furthermore your setting a double standard by saying that God said to remember the Sabbath so we must observe it because you claim that nothing in the scriptures say that we no longer have to observe it while ignoring the fact that God commanded that the Passover be observed for all generations and there are no verses saying that we no longer have to observe that commandment.

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*Yawn*

BNR32FAN said:

Actually nobody really knows which commandments were written on the stone tablets, God kept on giving commandments to Moses on Mt Sinai for the next 11 chapters. In Exodus 31 the scriptures tell us that the tablets contained the commandments God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai and they also tell us that there were 10 commandments written on the stone tablets but it doesn’t tell us which ten were written on the stones.

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Sometimes it is better not to assume. Very interesting. I keep wondering how some assume that where the word commandments found in the New Testament means the ten.

MMXX said:

What he's teaching overall regarding the Saturday sabbath, is in line with the vast majority of Christianity. So if it's false, then so is most of Christianity.

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That is not true. Very few denominations teach anything he spoke in the post we responded too. And yes most know not what they believe.

Soyeong said:

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and if they were to ever change, such as with it becoming in accordance with God's righteousness to commit adultery, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so it is a sin to say that God's laws have changed.

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So we are still obligated to offer sin offerings?

Bob S said:

Sometimes it is better not to assume. Very interesting. I keep wondering how some assume that where the word commandments found in the New Testament means the ten.

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I was incorrect in that statement brother Bob Deuteronomy 4-5 does tell us which commandments were written on the tablets.

BNR32FAN said:

So we are still obligated to offer sin offerings?

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In Acts 18:18, Paul took a vow involving shaving his head and the only vow described in the Bible that involves shaving your head is the Nazarite vow in Numbers 6, which involves making sin offerings. Likewise, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to pay for the offerings of others who had undertaken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the law and in order to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the law, so offerings did not cease with the death and resurrection of Jesus, but only ceased because of the destruction of the 2nd temple, and if all of Israel has accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then the 2nd temple would not have been destroyed, and there would still be offerings being made. Laws in regard to temple practice that weren't followed after the destruction of the 1st temple were once again followed after the construction of the 2nd temple, so there is nothing about the destruction of the 2nd temple that means that those laws are no longer valid, or that they won't be followed after the construction of the 3rd temple (Ezekiel 44-46). All of Scripture testifies about Christ (John 5:39-40), so we should live in a way that testifies about him by faithfully living in accordance with it as far as we are able.

Bob S said:

Jesus was speaking to those under the Law, we are not under the Law.

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That is right Christians are not under the the Law. They are of the Law. Having the Law, God's Word in their hearts and minds through Christ's Spirit. Now we who are Christ's don't keep the law because we have to. We keep the Law because we want to because who we are in Christ Jesus.

HIM said:

That is not true. Very few denominations teach anything he spoke in the post we responded too.

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Maybe I got posts mixed up. It was a while ago. I know in general BRN32FAN is literally pretty Orthodox.

HIM said:

And yes most know not what they believe.

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Present company excluded of course.

HIM said:

That is right Christians are not under the the Law. They are of the Law. Having the Law, God's Word in their hearts and minds through Christ's Spirit. Now we who are Christ's don't keep the law because we have to. We keep the Law because we want to because who we are in Christ Jesus.

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All 613 Mitzvahs?

MMXX said:

All 613 Mitzvahs?

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Who compiled that list God or man?

When was the New Covenant first spoke?

HIM said:

Who compiled that list God or man?

When was the New Covenant first spoke?

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Is that a yes or no?

HIM said:

Do you make it up as you go or is there another that told you these answers.

Do you know that you are responsible for anything you teach and it is false? Even if you are only repeating something you heard.

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The commandments written on the tablets was something that I had never questioned before until after noticing that Exodus 31 didn’t actually say which commandments were actually written on the tablets. So I began to look for evidence indicated exactly which commandments were written on them and I couldn’t find any. I also noticed a lot of debate during my searching about which commandments were written on them so I arrived at the conclusion that the scriptures didn’t actually give that information until yesterday when it was actually presented to me that Deuteronomy 4-5 does give a clear indication of exactly which commandments were written on the tablets. So again I apologize for my mistake.

Soyeong said:

In Acts 18:18, Paul took a vow involving shaving his head and the only vow described in the Bible that involves shaving your head is the Nazarite vow in Numbers 6, which involves making sin offerings. Likewise, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to pay for the offerings of others who had undertaken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the law and in order to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the law, so offerings did not cease with the death and resurrection of Jesus, but only ceased because of the destruction of the 2nd temple, and if all of Israel has accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then the 2nd temple would not have been destroyed, and there would still be offerings being made. Laws in regard to temple practice that weren't followed after the destruction of the 1st temple were once again followed after the construction of the 2nd temple, so there is nothing about the destruction of the 2nd temple that means that those laws are no longer valid, or that they won't be followed after the construction of the 3rd temple (Ezekiel 44-46). All of Scripture testifies about Christ (John 5:39-40), so we should live in a way that testifies about him by faithfully living in accordance with it as far as we are able.

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Why would sacrifices have to come to an end because of the destruction of the temple? Why couldn’t the Israelites just construct another tabernacle and alter like Moses did at Mt Sinai?

HIM said:

That is right Christians are not under the the Law. They are of the Law. Having the Law, God's Word in their hearts and minds through Christ's Spirit. Now we who are Christ's don't keep the law because we have to. We keep the Law because we want to because who we are in Christ Jesus.

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What law Him? All of them, some of them, just the ten or the greatest one Jesus gave all mankind.

MMXX said:

Is that a yes or no?

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No; your turn.
Who compiled that list God or man?

When was the New Covenant first spoke?

SeventhFisherofMen said:

The reason I go to church and keep Sunday Holy is because it is The Lords day and the day Jesus rose from the grave. It is also New Testament vs old testament and the same reason that I don't sacrifice animals when I sin, because it is no longer necessary since Jesus rose from the grave. Paul talks about the law not being sufficient and rather a shadow of what was to come. Why hold onto old testament practices, the new testament is here.

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While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same Torah for how to act in accordance with His nature (Jeremiah 31:33). For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so any instructions that God has given for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are therefore eternally valid (Psalms 119:160), and if they were to ever change, such as with it becoming righteous to commit adultery, then God's righteousness would not be eternal.

The Bible contains a number of important foreshadows that teach us about the nature of who God and about His plan of redemption. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Jesus as being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother guarding it now that he has come, he concluded that we should therefore continue to observe it. Paul said that they are foreshadows of what is to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about the truth of what is to come by continuing to keep God's holy days instead of a way that denies the truth of what is to come.

In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Torah is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). Jesus did not establish the New Covenant until the end of his ministry, which means that everything that he taught prior to that point was in regard to how to obey the Torah as part of the Mosaic Covenant, and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather it still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33). Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20).

In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the group of Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so there is nothing wrong in someone choosing to worship on Sunday in addition to obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but people should not hypocritically set aside God's commands in order to establish their own tradition. Disobeying God's law in order to honor the resurrection is working at cross purposes to what Jesus gave himself to accomplish. Jesus rose on the Feast of Firstfruits as the firstfruits from the dead, so there is already a day that is rich with relevant symbolism that we can use to honor the resurrection that is in accordance with what God has commanded, so there is no need whatsoever to hypocritically set aside any of God's commands in order to do that. God blessed the 7th day and made it holy, so it is holy to God regardless of whether or not we recognize it as such, so the issue is whether or not we are going to guard what is holy to God or profane it.

Bob S said:

What law Him? All of them, some of them, just the ten or the greatest one Jesus gave all mankind.

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God tell us when he first gave the new covenant.

HIM said:

God tell us when he first gave the new covenant.

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Matt5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Gal3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

Bob S said:

Matt5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Gal3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

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When did God first give the New Covenant? The answer to your initial question is found there.

HIM said:

No

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Then how many Mitzvahs?

HIM said:

;your turn.
Who compiled that list God or man?

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God.

HIM said:

When was the New Covenant first spoke

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Based on Christian orthodoxy I'd say Luke 22:20. Probably from your pov Jeremiah 31:31.