How do you lose your "Salvation"

How do you lose salvation?


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HTacianas

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I hope this helps to answer that Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation? | GotQuestions.org

This is the people who Jesus talked about in Matthew 7 '21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’'

Read the wheat and tares parable.

They have the knowledge, but no faith. They might look saved on outside but they are still living in sin.

You'll find that I don't put much stock in gotquestions.org. They are notoriously wrong. And they are wrong because they interpret scripture through their own traditions. It is a mistake to do that. They make the same mistake about apostasy, see Hebrews 6:4-8.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Sorry, accidental post.

Hard to respond unless you can be more specific.

PM me if you want...
Still relevant to the OP, I went to church in my cit during revival, this enabled me, to receive salvation and gave me hope to be holier, overcoming sin and finding restoration. But literally while I was bearing the fruit of the Spirit, and all of one year in that church, I was called away from surrendering and verbally bashed. This former deacon was angry, foul mouthed, critical, belittling, and I sought God to get away from his influence. I
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Hard to respond unless you can be more specific.

PM me if you want...
Still relevant to the OP...

I actually went to church during revival and much Holy Spirit outpouring, intercession, prophecy, new births. With lots of others I was able to be born again, myself finding it hard to receive the Spirit, but just able.

A deacon at church offered me drives home. But he called me away from surrendering, as I was bearing the fruit of the Spirit, dying the seed. I became meek but this former deacon had a lot of anger, foul language, belittlement... I was being verbally wounded and crushed. I suffer from OCD, and this exaggerated the mixing of the words of knowledge, prophecy, experience of the laying of hands, worship and looking Christ with filth and blasphemy. I was fearful I could go on and on until I had no blessing left that went accepted, honoured and utilized. I think I met a sociopath or narcissist.

I sought God hard for departure from such contact but was and I am damaged.

I lost my way, lacked surrender, doubted meekness, I should have continued in hope for faith and patience, Gal 5:22.

So I see myself as having once been on the path to hardening my heart to all God's graces, as in Hebrews 6:6. I have met condescending, smiling, happy go lucky preachers who think one can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I would not rely on them. There are stories from living preachers of fellows who have gone beyond pardon. A good preacher keeps an eye on things and does not rely on deacons. Except maybe for spotting problems.
 
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d taylor

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A believer, one who has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life can not lose God's Eternal Life or they can not return it back to God or God will never take it back.

So if a person, at a point in their life trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life.
And now they are mad at God or even hate God or do not even now, believe in God. Because of some event or circumstances (good or bad) that has happen to them in their life. Well they still have their Eternal Life and have crossed over from death to life.

They are just simply out of fellowship with God they are a prodigal son/daughter. And they may not get back to God until after their physical life ends on earth but they will eventually get back to God.
 
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wendykvw

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Still relevant to the OP...

I actually went to church during revival and much Holy Spirit outpouring, intercession, prophecy, new births. With lots of others I was able to be born again, myself finding it hard to receive the Spirit, but just able.

A deacon at church offered me drives home. But he called me away from surrendering, as I was bearing the fruit of the Spirit, dying the seed. I became meek but this former deacon had a lot of anger, foul language, belittlement... I was being verbally wounded and crushed. I suffer from OCD, and this exaggerated the mixing of the words of knowledge, prophecy, experience of the laying of hands, worship and looking Christ with filth and blasphemy. I was fearful I could go on and on until I had no blessing left that went accepted, honoured and utilized. I think I met a sociopath or narcissist.

I sought God hard for departure from such contact but was and I am damaged.

I lost my way, lacked surrender, doubted meekness, I should have continued in hope for faith and patience, Gal 5:22.

So I see myself as having once been on the path to hardening my heart to all God's graces, as in Hebrews 6:6. I have met condescending, smiling, happy go lucky preachers who think one can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I would not rely on them. There are stories from living preachers of fellows who have gone beyond pardon. A good preacher keeps an eye on things and does not rely on deacons. Except maybe for spotting problems.
Are you able to have assurance of your relationship with God and salvation? I am sorry you have had such a bad experience.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Still relevant to the OP...

I actually went to church during revival and much Holy Spirit outpouring, intercession, prophecy, new births. With lots of others I was able to be born again, myself finding it hard to receive the Spirit, but just able.

A deacon at church offered me drives home. But he called me away from surrendering, as I was bearing the fruit of the Spirit, dying the seed. I became meek but this former deacon had a lot of anger, foul language, belittlement... I was being verbally wounded and crushed. I suffer from OCD, and this exaggerated the mixing of the words of knowledge, prophecy, experience of the laying of hands, worship and looking Christ with filth and blasphemy. I was fearful I could go on and on until I had no blessing left that went accepted, honoured and utilized. I think I met a sociopath or narcissist.

I sought God hard for departure from such contact but was and I am damaged.

I lost my way, lacked surrender, doubted meekness, I should have continued in hope for faith and patience, Gal 5:22.

So I see myself as having once been on the path to hardening my heart to all God's graces, as in Hebrews 6:6. I have met condescending, smiling, happy go lucky preachers who think one can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I would not rely on them. There are stories from living preachers of fellows who have gone beyond pardon. A good preacher keeps an eye on things and does not rely on deacons. Except maybe for spotting problems.

If you were truely born again and indwelled by the Holy Spirit no abuse can touch the eternal seed within you.

I have been on that journey.

Been abused more than most.

Read my testimony here...

Jesus's Ministry
 
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SavedByGrace3

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One thought is that the individuals were never saved to start with.
There are clear passages where it appears that people can be lost. The questions have to be answered first, what are we saved from, and second, when we are "lost" what are we lost from?
There is a consensus that people are saved from one thing, hell. You get saved you get eternal life and that means you are good with God, and you go to heaven.
However, there are some that suggest our salvation is multi-faceted and multi-leveled. It is not all just one thing. Being born again is one facet and level. Being saved from the power of sin may be another. Being saved in the physical realm is another. Being saved from the attacks of the enemy another. So, when there are references to being "lost" one must determine exactly what you were "safe" from and what did you lose? So let me suggest that not all sins result in the loss of the new birth and eternal salvation. You may just lose some physical aspect of your salvation. Perhaps you become susceptible to illness or some loss of temporal blessing? The scripture says we will reap in the flesh the corruption we sow in the flesh. It speaks of a "just recompence of reward" according to the sin. Even in the OT it speaks of only receiving a certain number of stripes and not to exceed, because that would reflect badly on the judge. There is the fornicating Christian in 1 Corin 5, and the "sin not unto death" in 1 John 5. These and others seem to strongly suggest that there are both levels of sin, and levels of lostness.
Just my take.
 
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wendykvw

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One thought is that the individuals were never saved to start with.
There are clear passages where it appears that people can be lost. The questions have to be answered first, what are we saved from, and second, when we are "lost" what are we lost from?
There is a consensus that people are saved from one thing, hell. You get saved you get eternal life and that means you are good with God, and you go to heaven.
However, there are some that suggest our salvation is multi-faceted and multi-leveled. It is not all just one thing. Being born again is one facet and level. Being saved from the power of sin may be another. Being saved in the physical realm is another. Being saved from the attacks of the enemy another. So, when there are references to being "lost" one must determine exactly what you were "safe" from and what did you lose? So let me suggest that not all sins result in the loss of the new birth and eternal salvation. You may just lose some physical aspect of your salvation. Perhaps you become susceptible to illness or some loss of temporal blessing? The scripture says we will reap in the flesh the corruption we sow in the flesh. It speaks of a "just recompence of reward" according to the sin. Even in the OT it speaks of only receiving a certain number of stripes and not to exceed, because that would reflect badly on the judge. There is the fornicating Christian in 1 Corin 5, and the "sin not unto death" in 1 John 5. These and others seem to strongly suggest that there are both levels of sin, and levels of lostness.
Just my take.
Good thoughts thank you. The wages of sin is death, starting with that premise, as well as the entire world under the covenant of Grace. There are a number of verses that assure salvation and justification both occur once and for all. What can be lost is sanctification.
 
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Carl Emerson

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One thought is that the individuals were never saved to start with.
There are clear passages where it appears that people can be lost. The questions have to be answered first, what are we saved from, and second, when we are "lost" what are we lost from?
There is a consensus that people are saved from one thing, hell. You get saved you get eternal life and that means you are good with God, and you go to heaven.
However, there are some that suggest our salvation is multi-faceted and multi-leveled. It is not all just one thing. Being born again is one facet and level. Being saved from the power of sin may be another. Being saved in the physical realm is another. Being saved from the attacks of the enemy another. So, when there are references to being "lost" one must determine exactly what you were "safe" from and what did you lose? So let me suggest that not all sins result in the loss of the new birth and eternal salvation. You may just lose some physical aspect of your salvation. Perhaps you become susceptible to illness or some loss of temporal blessing? The scripture says we will reap in the flesh the corruption we sow in the flesh. It speaks of a "just recompence of reward" according to the sin. Even in the OT it speaks of only receiving a certain number of stripes and not to exceed, because that would reflect badly on the judge. There is the fornicating Christian in 1 Corin 5, and the "sin not unto death" in 1 John 5. These and others seem to strongly suggest that there are both levels of sin, and levels of lostness.
Just my take.

Yes - some good thoughts there...
 
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Jonaitis

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If you can walk away from Christ in this life (by your own free will) then why couldn't you walk away from Christ (by your own free will) in eternity? What makes free will different once life here on earth ends?
In glory, we no longer battle with sinful tendencies. Our first parents were placed on a conditional standing in which they could fall from their innocence, but we are established in Christ upon an unconditional standing from which we cannot fall.
 
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Susie~Q

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If you can walk away from Christ in this life (by your own free will) then why couldn't you walk away from Christ (by your own free will) in eternity? What makes free will different once life here on earth ends?
Well, the way I understand it is once you die and are in heaven with our Lord, you won't have the sin nature anymore, it will have been defeated. On earth, we all have a sin nature which we fight against daily, which is why Christ died on the cross so that His death would cover all of our sins so we would be made "acceptable" in Gods sight when we get to heaven, so, once there, that old nature will no longer be with us, nothing of Satan will be in heaven, our entire nature will be that of Jesus, there is no sin in heaven.
 
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Cockcrow

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people are still not listening to what Jesus said, this losing your salvation nonsense is ridiculous. works are filthy rags, they don't save anybody, or anything, that's why Jesus shed his blood on the cross, only by grace through faith in Jesus can anyone be saved, salvation is Jesus alone. the moment you add your filthy works it is no longer grace and you're condemned by the law for all have sinned and fall short.
 
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bling

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Think about this question: What do we have when going to heaven, which the angels before sinning did not have (or we might assume they did not have)?

1. The angels before sinning may not have had any experience with sin, the ability to sin and be redeemed might only be available on earth, thus did not have a good knowledge of sin and especially the individual impact on the sinner after sinning, this is similar to Adam and Eve before they sinned. In this way sin has purpose for mature adults.

2. Mature adults also have experience with satan’s evilness, one of the reasons satan is still around.

3. On earth we have a necessary and valuable survival instinct and an instinct to reproduce, which does produce a selfishness nature, but in heaven we are eternal and cannot reproduce, so there is no reason for these instincts.

4. Mature saved adults after sinning much creating an unbelievable huge debt automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) Luke 7, but that first requires sinning, again. This also is something Adam and Eve could not experience prior to sinning.

5. Mature adults also experience God’s forgiveness and have the free will ability to accept or reject God’s forgiveness.

6. While on earth we are sexual beings, able to experience or at least observe: family, children, reproduction, parental responsibility, oneness, and the conflicts that go along with being sexual beings.

7. In heaven we loss our sexuality (there is no reason to appropriate) so there is no reason to try and win a mate, be jealous of those competing for our potential mate. There is really no reason to be perceived as being better than we are.

8. There might not even be physical human like beauty in heaven (we might be able to change our looks to whatever we want).

9. There really may not be anything we would “want” that we do not already have. You might think while on earth: “I want to be my own God”, but what is a real God like (Christ), so do your want to be that servant of all, washing everyone’s feet? God Loves you more than you could ever Love Him back, so who is better off in that scenario? The person being sacrificially Loved is better than the person with less Love, Loving the Lover back. Yes, we worship Him out of our gratitude Godly type Love, but He Loves us more. Are you willing and wanting to go through all God has gone through, so you can be a god? The greater you are, the greater servant you are of others.

10. We also know what satan did in heaven and the results.

11. What in heaven would you “selfishly” want, if you really have all you want?

12. The biggest thing I see is us having the indwelling Holy Spirt, but in heaven we can see Him, we still have the free will to quench Him and go it on our own, why would we (do we want to be away from Him?)

13. At the alter/thrown we might also see Christ blood still dripping to help us not to forget.

14. Another huge factor is we will have the work we enjoy doing (helping others), this might mean we protect and preserve those who never had the opportunity to fulfill their earthly objective while on earth and thus they do not have Godly type Love.

15. The tree of knowledge or something like it is not there to tempt us.

16. There are other factors, but this is off the top of my head.
 
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fhansen

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If you can walk away from Christ in this life (by your own free will) then why couldn't you walk away from Christ (by your own free will) in eternity? What makes free will different once life here on earth ends?
The will of man has been the "prize" since Eden. Sin/evil would not even be possible, at all, unless for the freedom of created beings to oppose the will of God, even as that opposition is, in itself, a great evil and an anomaly in creation. We were made for union with God and His will- and are lost, sick, dead to the extent that we're outside of that will, alienated from Him, not knowing Him.

So salvation is the process by which God turns us back to Him, without overriding the will but by informing, moving, coaxing, drawing, chastising, appealing to us. Our experience down here in a world where good and evil are literally known, where they’re experienced and experimented or toyed with directly, viscerally, are ingredients in this process, of our ultimately turning fully to Him and away from evil, meaning coming to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength whereupon our justice or righteousness would be complete, perfected, as goodness over evil is fully embraced.

God has a purpose or telos for man which we are created to attain, with His help. It will not be fully completed or consummated until the next life where we meet God face to face and are fully known just as we fully know -1 Cor 13. Because as we turn from evil here, in this life, and look towards the true Object of all human desire: sheer Goodness, Personified, we've embarked upon a journey which has its end in the full captivation of the will, whereupon we would no longer even wish to be distracted by anything else, by lesser, created things over this one most high and beautiful Being, now in our presence in the next life as we've demonstrated in this life, to the extent that we're able and that we've succeeded in doing so, that He's right, that love is the ultimate good- and that He is love.

So enthralling and completely satisfying is the reward, the "simple" presence of God, that man could never want for anything else again-the right choice has now been confirmed in no uncertain terms. Here's a teaching I'm familiar with that sheds light, IMO, on our side of the equation, while not intending to compromise the absolute necessity of grace in it all:

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28
 
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wendykvw

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The will of man has been the "prize" since Eden. Sin/evil would not even be possible, at all, unless for the freedom of created beings to oppose the will of God, even as that opposition is, in itself, a great evil and an anomaly in creation. We were made for union with God and His will- and are lost, sick, dead to the extent that we're outside of that will, alienated from Him, not knowing Him.

So salvation is the process by which God turns us back to Him, without overriding the will but by informing, moving, coaxing, drawing, chastising, appealing to us. Our experience down here in a world where good and evil are literally known, are experienced and experimented or toyed with directly, viscerally, are ingredients in this process, of our ultimately turning fully to Him and away from evil, meaning coming to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength whereupon our justice or righteousness would be complete, perfected as goodness over evil is fully embraced.

God has a purpose or telos for man which we are created to attain, with His help. It will not be fully completed or consummated until the next life where we meet God face to face and are fully known just as we fully know -1 Cor 13. Because as we turn from evil here, in this life, and look towards the true Object of all human desire, Goodness, Personified, we've embarked upon a journey which has its end in the full captivation of the will, whereupon we would no longer even wish to be distracted by anything else, by lesser, created things over this one most high and beautiful Being, now in our presence in the next life as we've demonstrated in this life, to the extent that we're able and that we've succeeded in doing so, that He's right, that love is the ultimate good- and that He is love.

So enthralling and completely satisfying is the reward, the "simple" presence of God, that man could never want for anything else again-the right choice has now been confirmed in no uncertain terms. Here's a teaching I'm familiar with that sheds light, IMO, on our side of the equation, while not intending to compromise the absolute necessity of grace in it all:

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28
Do you have assurance of your salvation? Can you lose it, or forfeit it?
 
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fhansen

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Do you have assurance of your salvation? Can you lose it, or forfeit it?
I can lose it. No one can predict their own perseverance for that matter. God is 100% good, trustworthy, and true while we’re the wildcard. We can have a strong level of assurance based on His trustworthiness and our experiences together with evidence of good fruit, while still somewhat guarded based on our limitations, human weaknesses, ignorance, and proclivity to sin.

Anyway, I’d prefer to do the best I can with the grace and opportunities given and let the Just Judge give His verdict at the end of the day, knowing that it will be the right thing in any case. Humility, alone, calls for that IMO.
 
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