The consequences of a pessimistic eschatology

JM · Jul 28, 2022

Just a quick vid to challenge your thinking...or encourage you...either way #datpostmil

Yours in the Lord

lismore · Jul 29, 2022

Hello!

Thanks for sharing the video.

I think the one major flaw in the Gentleman's theology is this:

Acts 1:11 "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The return of the Lord Jesus is the climax of eschatology. The Lord Jesus has not returned therefore these events have yet to take place.

God Bless

JM · Jul 29, 2022

lismore said:
Hello!

Thanks for sharing the video.

I think the one major flaw in the Gentleman's theology is this:

Acts 1:11 "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The return of the Lord Jesus is the climax of eschatology. The Lord Jesus has not returned therefore these events have yet to take place.

God Bless

You're assuming too much by hastily joining verses together to form a patchwork of eschatological nonsense.

God bless

JM · Jul 29, 2022

lismore said:
Hello!

Thanks for sharing the video.

I think the one major flaw in the Gentleman's theology is this:

Acts 1:11 "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The return of the Lord Jesus is the climax of eschatology. The Lord Jesus has not returned therefore these events have yet to take place.

God Bless

You're assuming too much by hastily joining verses together to form a patchwork of eschatological nonsense.

God bless

DavidPT · Jul 29, 2022

JM said:
You're assuming too much by hastily joining verses together to form a patchwork of eschatological nonsense.

God bless

That sounds like an opinion and not a valid argument instead. If you want to believe Postmil is the correct position, that is your business and your right to do so. If you had a good case to make for PostMil, you should be able to do it in your own words rather than trying to force others to watch videos they might not really care to watch. I tried watching that video yesterday. Made it through around 8 minutes of it. I couldn't watch any more of it since the author of that video wasn't saying anything that compelled me to continue watching it.

I didn't care for his interpretation of Revelation 21-22 for one. I think he was already going into that just prior to when I shut the video down.

Douggg · Jul 29, 2022

DavidPT said:
I tried watching that video yesterday. Made it through around 8 minutes of it. I couldn't watch any more of it since the author of that video wasn't saying anything that compelled me to continue watching it.

You lasted a lot longer than me.

Spiritual Jew · Jul 29, 2022

Douggg said:
You lasted a lot longer than me.

And you lasted longer than me if you watched it at all.

lismore · Jul 30, 2022

JM said:
You're assuming too much by hastily joining verses together to form a patchwork of eschatological nonsense.

God bless

Well take the one passage then:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The 'splendor of his coming'. Has that happened, has the Lord Jesus returned? God Bless

Timtofly · Jul 30, 2022

JM said:
challenge your thinking

So people are not excited about the Second Coming?

Are people bummed out that the Second Coming could happen sooner now than 1900 years ago?

Is it not post millennials or even historist, the ones complaining that the first century were really excited because it could happen at any minute? I mean they did say it was the "last hour", no?

Now 1900 years later, people are pessimistic because the NT no longer applies to them, but only to the first century church. No wonder they are pessimistic. We should be more excited now than they were 1900 years ago.

JM · Aug 1, 2022

DavidPT said:
That sounds like an opinion and not a valid argument instead. If you want to believe Postmil is the correct position, that is your business and your right to do so. If you had a good case to make for PostMil, you should be able to do it in your own words rather than trying to force others to watch videos they might not really care to watch. I tried watching that video yesterday. Made it through around 8 minutes of it. I couldn't watch any more of it since the author of that video wasn't saying anything that compelled me to continue watching it.

I didn't care for his interpretation of Revelation 21-22 for one. I think he was already going into that just prior to when I shut the video down.

It's a valid observation.

JM · Aug 1, 2022

lismore said:
Well take the one passage then:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The 'splendor of his coming'. Has that happened, has the Lord Jesus returned? God Bless

I agree that hasn't happened yet but what does that have to do with the video? Nothing...nothing at all.

JM · Aug 1, 2022

Timtofly said:
So people are not excited about the Second Coming?

Are people bummed out that the Second Coming could happen sooner now than 1900 years ago?

Is it not post millennials or even historist, the ones complaining that the first century were really excited because it could happen at any minute? I mean they did say it was the "last hour", no?

Now 1900 years later, people are pessimistic because the NT no longer applies to them, but only to the first century church. No wonder they are pessimistic. We should be more excited now than they were 1900 years ago.

Sorry McFly but you don't understand Postmillennialism ^_^

The world is just going to get worse and worse so why bother? Why polish brass on a sinking ship, right! Just look around at North America and Europe, Christians gave ground and gave up due to wacky Premillennialism and Futurism.

parousia70 · Aug 1, 2022

lismore said:
Well take the one passage then:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The 'splendor of his coming'. Has that happened, has the Lord Jesus returned? God Bless

Interesting.
Did this happen at the time of David's Battlefield Victory over Saul?

2 Samuel 22:8-16
8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.
14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Did this happen when Babylon Sacked Israel to begin the 70 year Captivity?

Jeremiah 4:22-30
23I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
25 I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger.

27 For thus says the Lord:

“The whole land shall be desolate;
Yet I will not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn,
And the heavens above be black,
Because I have spoken.
I have purposed and will not relent,
Nor will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee from the noise of the horsemen and bowmen.
They shall go into thickets and climb up on the rocks.
Every city shall be forsaken,
And not a man shall dwell in it.

30 “And when you are plundered,
What will you do?
Though you clothe yourself with crimson,
Though you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold,
Though you enlarge your eyes with paint,
In vain you will make yourself fair;
Your lovers will despise you;
They will seek your life.

Or did this happen when Babylon sacked Egypt?

Ezekiel 32:1-16
1 And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him:

‘You are like a young lion among the nations,
And you are like a monster in the seas,
Bursting forth in your rivers,
Troubling the waters with your feet,
And fouling their rivers.

3 ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“I will therefore spread My net over you with a company of many people,
And they will draw you up in My net.
4 Then I will leave you on the land;
I will cast you out on the open fields,
And cause to settle on you all the birds of the heavens.
And with you I will fill the beasts of the whole earth.
5 I will lay your flesh on the mountains,
And fill the valleys with your carcass.

6 “I will also water the land with the flow of your blood,
Even to the mountains;
And the riverbeds will be full of you.
7 When I put out your light,
I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you,
And bring darkness upon your land,”
Says the Lord God.

9 ‘I will also trouble the hearts of many peoples, when I bring your destruction among the nations, into the countries which you have not known. 10 Yes, I will make many peoples astonished at you, and their kings shall be horribly afraid of you when I brandish My sword before them; and they shall tremble every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of your fall.

11 ‘For thus says the Lord God: “The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon you. 12 By the swords of the mighty warriors, all of them the most terrible of the nations, I will cause your multitude to fall.

“They shall plunder the pomp of Egypt,
And all its multitude shall be destroyed.
13 Also I will destroy all its animals
From beside its great waters;
The foot of man shall muddy them no more,
Nor shall the hooves of animals muddy them.
14 Then I will make their waters clear,
And make their rivers run like oil,”
Says the Lord God.

15 “When I make the land of Egypt desolate,
And the country is destitute of all that once filled it,
When I strike all who dwell in it,
Then they shall know that I am the Lord.

16 “This is the lamentation
With which they shall lament her;
The daughters of the nations shall lament her;
They shall lament for her, for Egypt,
And for all her multitude,”
Says the Lord God.’ ”

lismore · Aug 1, 2022

JM said:
I agree that hasn't happened yet but what does that have to do with the video? Nothing...nothing at all.

Hello! The return of the Lord has everything to do with the video, the author is questioning the events that the bible say immediately precede the return of the Lord- the author says these events happened a long time ago and are not worth discussing- but the Lord has not returned-therefore his position seems to be blind in the extreme. God Bless

Hammster · Aug 2, 2022

lismore said:
Well take the one passage then:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

The 'splendor of his coming'. Has that happened, has the Lord Jesus returned? God Bless

Your assumption is that “splendor of his coming” is the second advent. Why do you hold to this?

Hammster · Aug 2, 2022

Timtofly said:
So people are not excited about the Second Coming?

Are people bummed out that the Second Coming could happen sooner now than 1900 years ago?

Is it not post millennials or even historist, the ones complaining that the first century were really excited because it could happen at any minute? I mean they did say it was the "last hour", no?

Now 1900 years later, people are pessimistic because the NT no longer applies to them, but only to the first century church. No wonder they are pessimistic. We should be more excited now than they were 1900 years ago.

You assume “last hour” is in relation to His second advent. Why?

lismore · Aug 2, 2022

Hammster said:
Your assumption is that “splendor of his coming” is the second advent. Why do you hold to this?

Hello! I looked up the definition of 'Second Advent' in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Second Coming, also called Second Advent or Parousia, in Christianity, the future return of Christ in glory, when it is understood that he will set up his kingdom, judge his enemies, and reward the faithful, living and dead.

Second Coming | Definition & Gospels

Why would I hold that the future coming of Christ in splendour is synonymous with the future coming of Christ in glory? Maybe because splendour is glorious? God Bless

Hammster · Aug 2, 2022

lismore said:
Hello! I looked up the definition of 'Second Advent' in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Second Coming, also called Second Advent or Parousia, in Christianity, the future return of Christ in glory, when it is understood that he will set up his kingdom, judge his enemies, and reward the faithful, living and dead.

Second Coming | Definition & Gospels

Why would I hold that the future coming of Christ in splendour is synonymous with the future coming of Christ in glory? Maybe because splendour is glorious? God Bless

The words is better translated as appearance. And scripture speaks in various places of “coming” which isn’t a physical appearance in a lot of cases. So this doesn’t necessarily mean the second advent.

JulieB67 · Aug 2, 2022

John was taken in the spirit on the "Lords day" day and told to write about the past, present and future of that time frame. People can spin the Lord's day all they want into making it a day of the week or sabbath, Saturday or Sunday but it was never written that way and John never wrote it that way. We are talking about that same day talked about all through out -the Lord's day/day of the Lord/Day of Christ.

So even the past and most definitely, present and future of that time frame would be our future.

People see 2000 years and think Revelation is not relevant to us. But it will happen to one generation. We are only given one bible. Christ only gave us one revelation. Christ states he comes quickly at the end of Revelation. Has he returned? No. So we need to continue to view time as our Father would. And that means the time frame of the Lord's day has not happened yet.

And there's nothing pessamistic about being a watchman. It's not a waste of time. Most Christians that are watchman live and lead full lives. The problem is people want to see this world/age improve but our Father wants us to come out of Babylon/confusion, the world so to speak. We are to set ourselves apart. God knows how to look after his own in this world. But we can't become too attached to the world.

The person in the video states it's not a salvation issue but one has to be prepared if it happens in one's life time. If one isn't ready for the possiblilty of Satan and co arriving playing savior, you are in danger of being harvested out of season. (Foolish Virgins, etc) Those are the warnings. Because if you are right now just waiting on Christ to return, you might fall away to the fake that will play savior to the world. Satan will be disguised as an angel of light and will perform miracles in the sight of men. All that happens before the 7th trump/the Lord's day. It's all laid out, the bible does not leave us unprepared. But Paul states you must have that to be able to stand in that "evil" day. He wasn't talking to Jewish people about 70AD.

I will say there are consequences for the ones that fall away and Christ states he never knew them. Because obviously, the foolish virgins and the ones stating they cast out demons in his name were Christians.

People will be thinking peace and safety (fake) and then bam, the true Christ returns. That's why one should always be prepared and always on watch. Those are Christ's warnings. He states to watch because he comes at an hour most do not expect. Since he hasn't returned, that's specifically meant for the generation it happens to.

JM · Aug 2, 2022

lismore said:
Hello! The return of the Lord has everything to do with the video, the author is questioning the events that the bible say immediately precede the return of the Lord- the author says these events happened a long time ago and are not worth discussing- but the Lord has not returned-therefore his position seems to be blind in the extreme. God Bless

Christ dealing with disobey Israel is not the Second Coming.

The consequences of a pessimistic eschatology

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

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Psalm 144:1

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