Saturday or Sunday Church?
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Danthemailman
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We find our "sabbatismos" rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:9) and not in keeping the weekly Sabbath day under the Law.
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According to scripture to receive the rest in Christ the door is through hallowing His Sabbath.
Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.
σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
To enter into the Spiritual rest you must also cease from your work (Exodus 20:8-11) just as God did from His (Genesis 2:1-3)
The only day we were told to cease from our work is the seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10. All other days are working days according to God. Exodus 20:9. The only day God ceased from His work is the Sabbath. Six days were working days for God Genesis 1 but the seventh day God rested. Genesis 2:1-3 God blessed and sanctified the seventh day and made it holy which He did not do with any other day. Genesis 2:1-3
To receive the spiritual rest in Christ you enter through the Sabbath commandment, this is the door to enter into the spiritual rest in Christ. We work six days and the seventh day Christ wants to give us spiritual rest by having communion with him for a full 24 hours not speaking our words but speaking the words of Christ, not doing our ways but the ways of Christ. In return when we keep the Sabbath God blesses and sanctifies us. Isaiah 58:13-14, Ezekiel 20:12
We should fear that we do not enter His rest as the warning in Hebrews 4 those who were first preached to did not enter due to their disobedience. Hebrews 4:6
This is a wakeup call- "today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart".
What did they disobey? The Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:13 therefore they were not sanctified by God Ezekiel 20:12.
I pray this helps. I have some things to take care of today but I wish you all the blessings of seeking God's Word.
God bless
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Soyeong
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In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so obedience to it is the way of faith. Jesus spent his ministry teaching people how to obey God's law by word and by example, that that was the prime objective of his ministry. In Acts 3:11-26, Peter gave the Gospel message about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob raising Jesus from the dead, of healing, of calling for them to repent from their sins, of calling for them to listen to Jesus, and that he was sent as the fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness. So yes, blessing us by turning us from our wickedness was the primary objective of his ministry.
In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so obedience to it is how he expresses his love for us, and how we are to love one another as he loved us. Calling for people to repent and obey God's law in accordance with Christ's example is not different that calling for people to love.
The Israelites are children of Abraham and the God of Abraham is also the God of Moses, so you're making a false distinction, but rather God taught both of them how to bless the nations through teaching them how to know Him by walking in His way in obedience to His law in accordance with faith in the promise. In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that he has promised, namely in Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply his children as the stars in the heavens, to his children he will give all of these lands, and through His children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice, kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, which the Israelites also followed (Deuteronomy 30:15-16). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which is salvation by grace through faith, and this is the purpose of our existence.
Here are some verses that show that the law is a vehicle for salvation/eternal life: Romans 2:6-7, Romans 2:13, Romans 6:19-23, Titus 2:11-14, Ephesians 2:10, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 19:17, and Luke 10:25-28.
Here are some verses that speak against the law being a vehicle for earning salvation/eternal life: Romans 3:28, Romans 4:4-5, Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 2:21, and Galatians 3:21.
So while the gift of God's law was never a vehicle for earning our salvation as a wage, it has always been a vehicle for receiving the gift of salvation. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to it through faith is inherently part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it.
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Brothers, happy Sabbath! That point of view is a human tradition based on a mistranslation! Some translations, like the King James Version (KJV), affected many other translations after it. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of "Joshua" as "Jesus" in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert. Those, like Joshua, who were not allowed to enter the Sabbath by "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the Hebrews passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation.
So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
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Yeah luckily for me my company doesn’t make us work on Sunday.
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Do you know you will be held accountable for what you share?
If one is a Christian then they have the Spirit of God directing their actions. We have the law of God in our hearts and minds. His Word in our hearts and mouths. We can now love for He is Love and is directing their actions. Faith does not make void the Law it establishes it. For we are a New creation in Christ Jesus. All things are new and of God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His God pleasure.
Take note the judgments and ordinances prescribed in the Old Covenant are never mentioned as being part of the New Covenant. Only the Commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the law. Not the Judgements and ordinances.
Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
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Many people believe that Jesus was the One speaking to Moses. I’m undecided on that, I do believe it is a possibility. I do believe that every encounter man has had face to face with God was Jesus and not God The Father.
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Brother, the rest of the soul after Jesus, with His faster cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest in heaven instead of slow animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins, is not the corrected "day" of rest spoken of in Hebrews, chapter 4, since Joshua allowed under his watch a wrong human tradition about the Sabbath outside of the Promised Land. I have a new thread on the subject, titled: "The rest of the "soul" is not the other "day" of rest in Hebrews!"
So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
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No not according to verse 3
“For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
Hebrews 4:3 NASB1995
Right here Paul said that by believing we enter into His rest.
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Leaf473
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I think we both agree that there is no scripture passage stating that the apostles kept the Sabbath. Neither is there a scripture passage stating they broke it.
Beyond that, we're each going to have an opinion about what's being implied.
You're welcome to share all the scriptures that you wish!
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Leaf473
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Those instructions may change over time, yes? First humans are told to eat only plants, then they are told they can eat any animal, then at Sinai God says eat only certain animals.
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Soyeong
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The Hebrew word "yada" refers to knowledge gained by experience, relationship, or intimacy, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His Torah, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, so that is the goal of the Torah, which is also why Jesus said in Matthew 7:23 that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did know God and refuse to know him because in 9:13, they had forsaken the Torah, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in experiencing those and other aspects of God's nature through our obedience to the Torah is the way to know God, and the Son, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). God's nature is eternal, so His instructions for how to act in accordance with His nature are therefore also eternal, so the way know God does not change over time. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commandments are liars, and in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to sin in transgression of the Torah have neither seen nor known him.
Noah was temporarily instructed to eat the same foot as the other animals while on the Ark for obvious reasons (Genesis 6:21), so that was the lifting of that prohibition, not granting something new. In Genesis 7:2, Noah was given instructions for what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew the offer a clean animal, so he must have already been given instructions in that regard and knew not to eat unclean animals, and it wouldn't make sense to interpret the Bible as God flip flopping back and forth about whether or not something is an abomination against His eternal nature. The word used in Genesis 9:3 for what Noah was permitted to eat does not refer to predators of scavengers, which is what unclean animals tend to be. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus 11:44-45, where God instructed against eating unclean animals, and God's holiness is eternal, therefore so is the way to know Him through acting in accordance with His holiness.
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Soyeong
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Please interact with what I said to show that the Torah with the Law of the Spirit to explain why you think my reasoning was wrong. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses.
In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God and with Law of the Spirit of Life, and the Torah is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:21-22, as well as being instructed by God in Deuteronomy 5:31-33. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Torah. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Torah, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.
God's nature is the fruit of the Spirit, the Bible frequently uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Torah, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:22), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the Torah (Matthew 23:23), and the Torah could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to bear that fruit. Likewise, God's way is the way in which He expresses aspects of His nature, such as Genesis 18:19 and 2 Samuel 22:21-37, and there are many verses that describe the Torah as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and Psalms 119:1-3. Furthermore, in Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, which he expressed by living in sinless obedience to the Torah. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Torah are not born again, which is again why Romans 8:1-17 contrasts those who are born of the Spirit with those who refuse to submit to the Torah.
If the God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to the Torah, then it it would be for bondage that God set, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free, so the Torah is for freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, the Torah is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of the Torah that puts us in bondage while it is the truth that sets us free. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Christ gave himself to free us from the Torah, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is not the freedom to sin, but the freedom to become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20), so Galatians 5:1 is not referring to the Torah.
Either there are correct or incorrect reason for becoming circumcised, and Paul only spoke against the incorrect reasons, or according to Galatians 5:2. Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, so they were requiring it for an incorrect purpose.
All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Torah, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:17-23), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning against obeying God and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted God to put false ways far from, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and this is what it means to be under grace, and it would be absurd to think that David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that works of the law are the way to receive the Spirit, therefore works of the law does not refer to obeying anything that God has commanded, such as the Torah. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds the Torah, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. Furthermore, in Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Torah, which is also why Isaiah 51:7 says that the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Torah as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.
When we are express aspects of God's nature through our obedience to the Torah, we are expressing our love for that aspect of who God is, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments, and in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, so in regard to Galatians 5:6, faith working through love is not something different than obeying God's commandments.
In Psalms 119:142, the Torah is truth, Galatians 5:7 asking them who hindered them from obeying the the truth refers to turning them away from obeying the Torah, not to obeying the Torah instead of the truth. The Torah came from the God who calls us, so Galatians 5:8 saying that this persuasion is not from him who calls you again could not be referring to the Torah.
In Galatians 5:13, we are not to use our freedom for the flesh, which is in contrasted to the command to love our neighbors as ourselves, which is one of the commands of the Torah, while all of the works of the flesh that are against the Spirit that are listed in 5:19-21. In 5:16-17, if we walk by the Spirit, then we will not gratify the desires of flesh for the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So it is completely unjustifiable to interpret Galatians 5:18 if we are led by the Spirit, then we are no longer under the Torah and are now free to gratify the desires of the flesh as if the Spirit leads us in opposition to the Father and the Son. Rather, the desires of the flesh causing us not to do the good that we want to do is how Paul described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7, where he wanted to do the good of serving the Law of God with his mind, but served the law of sin with his flesh that was causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Torah, so when we are led by the Spirit we are under the Torah, but are not under the law of sin.
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Soyeong
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Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following it (Jremiah 31:33)
It is possible that Paul went to synagogue because he wanted to continue to obey what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow? In 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ. In Acts 21:0-24, Paul rejoiced that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah, which was in accordance with believing in what Christ gave himself to accomplish on the cross (Titus 2:14), and he planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Acts 23:6, Paul claimed to be a Pharisee, and Pharisees are Torah observant. Acts 24:14, Paul testified that he continued to believe everything in the Torah and the Prophets.
In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome. In regard to Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, and said that his yoke was easy and his burden light. By Jesus saying that we will find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Acts 2:38, when Peter instructed His audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, the Torah was how they knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so that would include repenting from breaking the Sabbath.
I agree that there has been a much longer period of time after the destruction of the 2nd temple, though all of God's laws are eternal, so that is for a much longer period of time.
Wisdom that has no practical application is not wisdom, but is useless clutter of no value to know, so wisdom can't be extracted from the law apart from practical application. The Bible does not teach us wisdom for its own sake, but for the sake of doing.
While we should seek to do whatever it is that God instructs us to do through His law, there can be different understandings of how to correctly do what God has instructed, so if we see thinks like Moabites and eunuchs being accepted into the general assembly, then we should question whether it is correct to understand Deuteronomy 23:1-3 as referring to the general assembly instead of specific governing assembly. For example, foreigners from other countries can be welcome to become legal citizens of the US, but are not able to become the President, so there can be good reasons to avoid giving foreigners governing authority while still welcoming them into the assembly. That's different from looking for a reason to avoid obeying what God has commanded.
Their marriage would not have been sanctioned if she has not been a follower of God who was welcomed into the congregation of Israel (1 Kings 11:1-2, Ezra 9:1-2, 2 Corinthians 6:14)
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Soyeong
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Do you agree or disagree that Leviticus describes the way to have a holy conduct? If so, then you it is contradictory for you think think that those laws are not moral laws while also thinking that laws in regard to how to have a holy conduct are moral laws.
What do you think was Peter's purpose of quoting from Leviticus about having a holy conduct if it was not to reference the instructions in Leviticus for how to have a holy conduct?
Christ expressed the nature of God by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so it doe snot just show us our need for a Savior, but also teaches us how to know him, or in other words, how to have a relationship with him through being made to be like him. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Christ is the goal of the law. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they stumbled over the stumbling stone because they misunderstood the goal of the law, where they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works with the goal of establishing their own rather than pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey when we confess that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead.
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I apologize I know I posted quote a bit in that reply but I wanted to show the context of the message. Notice that Paul makes a distinction between the law of the Spirit and the law which refers to the Mosaic law.
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