Saturday or Sunday Church?

Bob S said:

What Law has God placed in our hearts SB?

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The one known to Jeremiah and his readers - since that is where we find the New Covenant with the Law of God written on the heart - Jer 31:31-34 as has been noted a few dozen times so far.

And as almost all Bible scholars admit (including those who accept the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19, and also those who accept the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19) - that moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN.

More facts that have been posted dozens of times so far - but I like that you keep asking for these reminders at regular intervals.

Glad to be able to comply.

BobRyan said:

Paul was preaching the Gospel in the synagogues to both Jews and gentiles "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4.

More Bible - please.

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But apparently virtually the entire whole of Christianity took the wide path to destruction shorty after that, and God waited nineteen centuries to get a handful back onto the narrow path.

BobRyan said:

The one known to Jeremiah and his readers - since that is where we find the New Covenant with the Law of God written on the heart - Jer 31:31-34 as has been noted a few dozen times so far.

And as almost all Bible scholars admit (including those who accept the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19, and also those who accept the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19) - that moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN.

More facts that have been posted dozens of times so far - but I like that you keep asking for these reminders at regular intervals.

Glad to be able to comply.

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Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Law of the Spirit is not 'the ten' it is a walk of obedience to His voice within everyday.

Carl Emerson said:

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Law of the Spirit is not 'the ten' it is a walk of obedience to His voice within everyday.

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In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit of Life. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to tell that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Law of God, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Law of God.

In particular, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it specifically mentions the Spirit as leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which are the two major categories of the Law of God, which cover a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. The daily guidance of the Spirit is in accordance with the Law of God, not instead of it.

Soyeong said:

In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit of Life. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to tell that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Law of God, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Law of God.

In particular, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it specifically mentions the Spirit as leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which are the two major categories of the Law of God, which cover a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. The daily guidance of the Spirit is in accordance with the Law of God, not instead of it.

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Why hasn't this been standard doctrine within virtually all of Christianity?

Soyeong said:

In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit of Life. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4). In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to tell that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Law of God, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16, 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Law of God.

In particular, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it specifically mentions the Spirit as leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which are the two major categories of the Law of God, which cover a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. The daily guidance of the Spirit is in accordance with the Law of God, not instead of it.

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Lets assume you are correct...

Why then would Paul chastise the Galatians for keeping the Law ???

See Gal 3 and particularly verse 5.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

There is the distinction...

BobRyan said:

The one known to Jeremiah and his readers - since that is where we find the New Covenant with the Law of God written on the heart - Jer 31:31-34 as has been noted a few dozen times so far.

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Quoting it a few dozen times doesn't make it any truer Bob. The Israelites had to deal with 613 laws with many of them dealing with the individual. Do you feel the need to allow your sideburns to grow and not cut them? Now if you tell us God was only referring to the ten commandments then do you realize there is absolutely nothing demanding you to love your fellow man? The greatest commandment is not in your heart? I know that you have love in your heart, so I also know that the ministry of death, the ten commandments, is not what God was referring to when He gave Jeremiah the prophesy.

And as almost all Bible scholars admit (including those who accept the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19, and also those who accept the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19) - that moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN.

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You have quoted men's thoughts dozens and dozens and in fact hundreds of times. That does not prove they were in harmony with what the scriptures are telling us. Men make mistakes. God's Word does not.

You say that almost all the Bible scholars tell us that moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN. Now tell us what else is included.

More facts that have been posted dozens of times so far - but I like that you keep asking for these reminders at regular intervals.

Glad to be able to comply.

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So far, your replies have been empty words. How about replying to what is written in this post.

Carl Emerson said:

Lets assume you are correct...

Why then would Paul chastise the Galatians for keeping the Law ???

See Gal 3 and particularly verse 5.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

There is the distinction...

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Even if you understood this verse correctly- does this blot out the words of Jesus- If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 or God showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandments. Love to God in scripture is obeying God’s commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

We have warnings that many misunderstand Paul even in his time and twist the scriptures to their own destruction 2 Peter 3:16. Obviously there is conflict between what you believe Paul is saying and what Jesus said from His own mouth. I would think its always best to side with being obedient to God than not, but thats a choice everyone will have to make.

Paul also said:
Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

There it is- what should be the real motive for every obedient act towards God. Faith through love, not by work. When you love God you keep His commandments and have faith that what He is asking is for our own good. When you don’t keep God’s commandments you are relying on your own works, what you think is righteous instead of getting your righteousness from God.

Paul also puts it this way:

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

And says:

Keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

SabbathBlessings said:

Thankfully we have God’s written Word if one follows, so we won’t be deceived. Isaiah 8:20

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It’s the word of God that has led us to this discussion. Paul said we don’t have to observe any certain day for The Lord or any Sabbath days. That’s what the word of God says in the NEW Testament during the NEW Covenant. You keep quoting all the verses that say to keep the Sabbath from the OLD Testament during the OLD Covenant. You believe the interpretation of a woman from the 20th century, I believe the interpretation from churches that were established by the apostles.

Soyeong said:

In particular, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it specifically mentions the Spirit as leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which are the two major categories of the Law of God, which cover a lot more than just the Ten Commandments. The daily guidance of the Spirit is in accordance with the Law of God, not instead of it.

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Leading US? What I read God was referring to the Israelites. Why do you include yourself?

26 A new heart also will I give you,(Israelites) and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

BNR32FAN said:

It’s the word of God that has led us to this discussion. Paul said we don’t have to observe any certain day for The Lord or any Sabbath days. That’s what the word of God says in the NEW Testament during the NEW Covenant. You keep quoting all the verses that say to keep the Sabbath from the OLD Testament during the OLD Covenant. You believe the interpretation of a woman from the 20th century, I believe the interpretation from churches that were established by the apostles.

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No, its people twisting Pauls words to their own destruction as warned by scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments as our example. Luke 4:16, John 15:10, 1 Peter 2:22

We are told to keep the commandments of God in the New Testament and the Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God’s own finger, spoke by God’s own voice. Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 31:18,

The Sabbath is not the Sabbath of the Jews but of the Lord thy God in His own Words and God does not change.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable,
Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Another passage I would highly recommend prayerfully reading is:

Salvation for the Gentiles
Isaiah 56: Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

When we get to the book of Revelation, we have a warning for those to come out of Babylon- which is the false teaching that have been handed down. We are told worship in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24. Don't worship in vain by keeping traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Only the Word of God is pure and the saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus until the very end. Revelation 14:12. All are invited -He who has an ear, let him hear

SabbathBlessings said:

No, its people twisting Pauls words to their own destruction as warned by scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments as our example. Luke 4:16, John 15:10, 1 Peter 2:22

We are told to keep the commandments of God in the New Testament and the Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God’s own finger, spoke by God’s own voice. Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 31:18,

The Sabbath is not the Sabbath of the Jews but of the Lord thy God in His own Words and God does not change.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable,
Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Another passage I would highly recommend prayerfully reading is:

Salvation for the Gentiles
Isaiah 56: Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

When we get to the book of Revelation, we have a warning for those to come our of Babylon- which is the false teaching that have been handed down. We are told worship in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24. Only the Word of God is pure and the saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus until the very end. Revelation 14:12. All are invited -He who has an ear, let him hear

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Jesus also kept the feat days, do you? Jesus never married, did you? Jesus never owned property, do you? Jesus wore robes with four tassels, do you?

Bob S said:

Jesus also kept the feat days, do you? Jesus never married, did you? Jesus never owned property, do you? Jesus wore robes with four tassels, do you?

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Why would I kill an animal for the sacrifice of sins when Jesus took the place for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification in the New Covenant? Is Christ’s blood not sufficient?

Honestly, you are sounding like the Pharasees more about rule-keeping than obeying God’s commandments because you love and have a changed heart.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3

Jeremiah 31:31-34 says that the Law of God is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. And that means it has to reference the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers... obviously.

This "detail" has been brought up a few times.

Bob S said:

Quoting it a few dozen times doesn't make it any truer Bob.

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Agreed - the point stands true even when quoted just once. But you keep asking for that point so I keep obliging.

Bob S said:

The Israelites had to deal with 613 laws with many of them dealing with the individual

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And NT readers have 1050 in the NT - what is your point? That we should use scissors on our bibles?
how is that even a point of doctrine?

Moses makes it clear in Deut 4 and 5 that the words spoken directly by God at Sinai - to Israel in their hearing - are the 10 that are on stone even to that very day. This is irrefutable. No way to obscure this Bible detail.

Paul helps clarify when he says that the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" is that still valid unit of TEN - spoken by God at Sinai directly to Israel. Moses in Deut 4 and 5 reminds us that it is the 10 spoken directly by God to Israel (ie. the Ex 20 list) that was written on stone and considered to be the case even 40 years after Sinai.

As has been so often pointed out for you. So I am glad we have these obvious details to those same repeated questions.

Instead of your arguments of the form "only SDAs will notice those obvious Bible details" -- I remind you that "almost all Bible scholars admit (including those who accept the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19, and also those who accept the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19) - that moral law of God written on the heart includes the TEN."

And then inexplicably you ask not to be reminded of that answer to your "only SDAs know this Bible detail " comments?

How does that logic even work Bob S???

Bob S said:

Leading US? What I read God was referring to the Israelites. Why do you include yourself?

26 A new heart also will I give you,(Israelites) and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

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In Deuteronomy 10:12-16, God wanted His people to circumcise their hearts and obey His commandments. In Deuteronomy 30:1-8, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to God's law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:33, the context is in regard to returning from exile and the New Covenant, where God would take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and His Spirit to lead us to obey His law, and where he would put His law in our minds and write it on our hearts, so it is describing God circumcising our hearts by means of the Spirit. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew, and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law. So the New Covenant is all about returning to obedience to God's law.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to His law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit is also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. So everyone who has the Spirit is being led to obey God's law, and that is why I included myself.

Carl Emerson said:

Lets assume you are correct...

Why then would Paul chastise the Galatians for keeping the Law ???

See Gal 3 and particularly verse 5.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

There is the distinction...

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Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as contrasting the Law of God with the law of sin in Romans 7:25. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore works of the law do not refer to obedience to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds the Law of God, so it is of faith, and the Law of God that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul spoke about the Book of the Law and contrasted it with works of the law. There is a curse for not relying on the Book of the Law (Deuteronomy 28), so those who instead rely on works of the law come under that curse. Furthermore, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of God, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Christ, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Furthermore, Christ set sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers how to follow God's law by word and by example, and people should be quicker to think that the book of Galatians makes no sense and that they must have misunderstood it than to think that it makes perfect sense to interpret it as Paul chastising them for following Christ. While Paul spoke against works of the law and the law of sin, he was a servant of God, so he never spoke against anyone obeying the Law of God.

The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Law of God, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so everyone who considers the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Law of God, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of the Law of God. Furthermore, the authors of the NT considered the Psalms to be Scripture, so they should be interpreted as though they were in complete agreement with everything said about the Law of God in them, and we should not superimpose onto them a negative view of the Law of God that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture.

SabbathBlessings said:

Even if you understood this verse correctly

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You mean the way you were taught to understand it?

MMXX said:

You mean the way you were taught to understand it?

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Keeping the Sabbath holy per the commandment of God does not lead to destruction. God says the Sabbath is a sign between Him and His people. How many times in scripture can we quote the Lord saying hallow My Sabbath- His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. When God asks why did I keep the Sabbath commandment, I can point to the scripture and say, because you told me to.

Exodus 20:8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are told to keep the commandments of God, there is no Sunday-keeping commandment, this is a tradition of man, but there is a Sabbath-keeping commandment of God written by God's own finger, so I place my trust in God and believe that His Word is true.

MMXX said:

Why hasn't this been standard doctrine within virtually all of Christianity?

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Jesus did not come to start his own religion, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism and he practiced Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and by spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey it. In Acts 21:20-24, they were rejoicing that there were tens of thousands of Jews who were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, and Paul planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to obey it, which means that Jews coming to faith were not ceasing to obey and that that from the beginning there were people who misunderstood Paul as teaching against obeying it. Furthermore, this means that there was a period of time between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews, so Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah. In Acts 24:14, Paul confessed that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he worshiped the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets, so The Way could not be referring to a sect of a religion other than Judaism, and that is the religion that Paul continue to practice as a Torah observant Pharisee (Acts 23:6). The Nazarenes are Christians who continued to be Torah observant.

However, that has not been the standard doctrine that has been taught for most of Christianity, s Christianity branched off from its roots fairly early, which I think most likely had its start with Claudius' expulsion of the Jews from Rome in around 43-53 AD, and which Gentiles not wanting to come back under Jewish leadership upon their return, which led to meeting in house churches. The Early Church Fathers had some shockingly anti-Semitic things to say, so they did not understand the role of the Jews or of the Torah, but it is these sort of tensions between Christians and Jews who were not followers of Christ also caused the two groups to polarize. In Shabbat 116b, the Talmud speaks about an account between a rabbi and a Christian philosopher, where the rabbi countered them by referencing Matthew 5:17, which is still a familiar conversation that is being had today.

Growing up I was taught to have an extremely negative view of the Torah, so I understand why that is a mainstream view within in Christianity because that is what they are taught, but through studying the Jewish cultural and historical context of the Bible, I became aware of how the NT is systematically interpreted with a negative slant towards the Torah. In Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Torah of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, and I even had these verses memorized as a kid, for some reason it just did not click earlier that the extremely negative view of the Torah that I had been taught was the opposite of the extremely positive view of it that is expressed in the Psalms, and if I was going to continue to believe that the Psalms are Scripture, then I needed to align my view of the Torah with them. The NT authors certainly considered the Psalms to be Scripture, especially with them being the OT book that is most quoted in the NT, so it is not unreasonable to think that they were in complete agreement with everything the Psalms say about the Torah, so I experimented with interpreting the NT as though that were the case and I found that it made much more sense and had much more continuity than I had given it credit for. So I reached the conclusion that the negative view of the Torah that I had been taught was wrong, and this has landed me in a position that is contrary to what is taught by most of Christianity, which is not something that I do lightly, but my choice has been increasingly affirmed. So I now use agreement with the Psalms as a test to determine whether someone has a correct view of the Torah.

In Jeremiah 31:33, it directly states that the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so I no longer see why people think that the New Covenant does not involve obeying it. People should be quicker to think that the NT doesn't make sense and that they must have misunderstood it than to think that it makes perfect sense to interpret as speaking against obeying what God has commanded as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing when all throughout the Bible, it calls for people to repent and to return to obedience to God, and even Jesus began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:17-23).

Soyeong said:

In Jeremiah 31:33, it directly states that the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so I no longer see people think that the New Covenant does not involve obeying it.

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Surely we are not to keep the entire Torah, are we? Like, we wouldn't exclude someone from our assembly just because their parents weren't married.